Attack Helicopters of IAF - LCH Prachand, AH-64E Apache : Updates & Discussions

zinswinsin said:
What are people's thoughts on helicopters overall? I think Ukraine's war has downgraded helicopters in terms of importance.

Drones, atgms and cost really make you question the utility of helicopters given the primary role being anti tank generally.

Apache is the same price as a F-35 basically.
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The system which can do quite a lot of stuff as stand alone is a platoon of infantry men.

Otherwise it's all about combined arms.

Use the antibiotics only for the infection it's supposed to fight. Don't use a APC as a IFV, etc.

If one sticks to that, all the modern contemporary systems are lethal and will win you all the battles.
 
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Army’s first LCH squadron moves to Missamari in Assam​


The Army has moved its first Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) squadron to Missamari, Assam, in the eastern sector near the Line of Actual Control (LAC). The LCH, India’s first indigenously designed and developed attack helicopter, is also the first dedicated attack helicopter operated by the Army.

“Two helicopters have moved there on November 1. The third helicopter will move by November-end and fourth by mid-December. Army will receive the 5 th LCH by January-end. The squadron will be fully operational by then,” a defence source told The Hindu. The Air Force raised its first LCH squadron at Jodhpur in October.

The Army raised the 351 Army Aviation Squadron to operate the LCH on June 1, 2022 at Bengaluru and received the first LCH end-September. The shortest aerial distance of the LAC from Missamari is around 250 km.

The Army LCH will be armed with 20 mm nose gun, 70 mm rockets, helicopter-launched anti-tank guided missile and a new air-to-air missile different from the ‘Mistral-2’ from MBDA on the IAF LCH. However, as of now, both the missiles are yet to be deployed on the LCH. The Army plans to embed attack helicopters with all pivot formations to provide them with close anti-armour support.

The twin-engine LCH designed and developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is a 5-8 tonne class dedicated combat helicopter conceptualised after the 1999 Kargil conflict. The helicopter has a combat radius of 500 km and a service ceiling of 21,000 feet which makes it ideal to operate at high-altitude areas including Siachen glacier.

In March 2020, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) approved procurement of 15 Limited Series Production (LSP) variants of LCH at the cost of ₹3,887 crore along with infrastructure sanctions worth ₹377 crore. Of the 15 helicopters, 10 are for IAF and five for the Army.

Eventually, the Army is looking for another 95 LCH and the IAF another 65 of them. However, the contract is yet to be worked out and their induction is spread over the next 10-15 years, officials said. As reported earlier, the Army plans to eventually deploy 70 of its LCH in the mountains.


Army Aviation has three brigades at Leh, Missamari and Jodhpur operating around 145 indigenous Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH), 75 of which are the Rudra weaponised variants, and around 190 ageing Cheetah, Chetak and Cheetal helicopters. Another 25 ALH Mk-III are on order which will be inducted within two years. The Army will also start receiving the Apache attack helicopters in early 2024, six of which have been contracted under an estimated $800 million deal from Boeing in February 2020. In addition, the Army is also pushing a case for 11 more Apaches for which negotiations are under way.
 

IAF Mi-35 attack helicopters undergoing overhaul, to add six years life​


The single squadron of Mi-35 attack helicopters in the Indian Air Force (IAF) are undergoing a complete overhaul in Russia which will extend these helicopter lifespan by six years keeping them in service beyond this decade, according to defence sources.

“The overhaul is being done in two batches. The first batch is currently in Russia and once they are done, the second batch would be sent. The entire overhaul should be completed by mid-2023,” a defence source said. The overhaul of each batch takes around six to eight months, the source stated.

The IAF earlier operated two squadrons of the older Russian Mi-25/35 attack helicopters, of which one squadron has been phased out following the induction of 22 Boeing AH-64E Apache attack helicopters in 2019-20. The 125 Helicopter Unit operating Apaches is based at Pathankot.

The overhaul will add another six years of life to the Mi-35s keeping them in service beyond this decade, sources said.

In 2015-16, India had handed over four Mi-25/35 attack helicopters to Afghanistan National Army taken from the IAF’s inventory.

Expanding its fleet of attack helicopters, IAF had inducted the indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCH) Prachand in October with the first squadron, 143 Helicopter Unit ‘Dhanush’, based at Jodhpur. Eventually, the Army is looking for another 95 LCH and the IAF another 65 of them and the induction is likely spread over the next 10-15 years.

India has contracted six additional Apache attack helicopters in an estimated $800 million deal signed in February 2020, but they will be operated by the Army Aviation. Deliveries are expected by early 2024.


In all, the IAF operates a wide mix of around 500 rotary platforms which includes around 90 Mi-17s, over 130 Mi-17V5s, over 70 indigenous Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH) including the weaponised Rudra variant, 22 AH-64E Apache attack helicopters, one squadron of Mi-35 attack helicopters and 15 CH-47F Chinook heavy lift helicopters. The IAF is in talks with Boeing to procure 11 additional Chinooks.
 
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zinswinsin said:
What are people's thoughts on helicopters overall? I think Ukraine's war has downgraded helicopters in terms of importance.

Drones, atgms and cost really make you question the utility of helicopters given the primary role being anti tank generally.

Apache is the same price as a F-35 basically.
Click to expand...

Helicopters are expected to become the future of warfare.
 
A meeting of Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), held on January 10, 2023 under the chairmanship of Raksha Mantri Shri Rajnath Singh, accorded Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) for three capital acquisition proposals, amounting to Rs 4,276 crore. All the three proposals - two of the Indian Army and one of the Indian Navy - are under the Buy (Indian-IDDM) category.

The DAC accorded AoN for procurement of HELINA Anti-Tank Guided Missiles, launchers and associated support equipment which will be integrated to the Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH). This missile is an essential part of weaponisation of ALH for countering enemy threat. Its induction will strengthen the offensive capability of Indian Army.

pib.gov.in

Defence Acquisition Council approves Acceptance of Necessity for three capital acquisition proposals - two of Indian Army & one of Indian Navy - worth Rs 4,276 crore

A meeting of Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), held on January 10, 2023 under the chairmanship of R
pib.gov.in


Although this is for Army Aviation Rudras, I think eventually the IAF Rudra will also get them.
 
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Made-in-India Prachand combat choppers carry out wargames with Army, performing well: IAF pilots

Jodhpur (Rajasthan) [India], January 15 (ANI): Within a few months of joining the Indian Air Force, the Prachand Light Combat Helicopter has started participating in joint wargames with the Indian Army and are performing very well.
The Prachand Light Combat Helicopters were inducted into the Air Force on October 3 last year and have been flying extensively in the desert sector since then.
"We are carrying out integrated exercises with Army and we are fully prepared and ready to give support to Army in case of any future conflicts," Indian Air Force's Dhanush squadron's Squadron Leader Raunak Dubey told ANI.
He said the chopper is being flown extensively in the desert sector and performing very well.
"We have flown this chopper quite a lot in our unit and we are highly impressed with its capabilities as it has been able to deliver on all its parameters. Its roles are to provide close air support to ground forces and take out enemy air defences," he said.
Sq Ld Dubey said the Prachand is one of the most potent combat helicopters in the world which possesses air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles and has also got a 70 mm rocket pod as well as a 20 mm gun canon.
"It has performed very well during trials in both high altitude locations like eastern Ladakh and Siachen glacier. Its navigation system allows pilots to pick up targets and destroy them with ease," he said.
Squadron Leader Tanmai Manan said the made-in-India LCH l gives India an edge over other attack helicopters due to its payload-carrying capacities, stealth, speed and agility.
"The helicopter is highly manoeuvrable, agile and responsive. The airframe has been designed in a way to make it crash-worthy. LCH is the only combat helicopter to have proven itself in the world's highest battlefield. It can carry lethal weapons and destroy a plethora of targets in altitudes in excess of 6 kms," he said.
The Commanding Officer of the squadron Group Captain Deepak Vishnoi also showcased the flying capabilities of the helicopter as the choppers took off for a sortie over the nearby locations in the desert sector.
The Jodhpur air base also has the Weapon Systems Integrated ALH Dhruv helicopter squadron whose role is to take out enemy armoured vehicles in times of conflict and they are known as 'Tankbusters'. (ANI)
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aninews.in

Made-in-India Prachand combat choppers carry out wargames with Army, performing well: IAF pilots

The Prachand Light Combat Helicopters were inducted into the Air Force on October 3 last year and have been flying extensively in the desert sector since then.
aninews.in aninews.in
 
So look at this part

"We have flown this chopper quite a lot in our unit and we are highly impressed with its capabilities as it has been able to deliver on all its parameters. Its roles are to provide close air support to ground forces and take out enemy air defences," he said.

See maybe LCH is no intended as a tank buster primary role by the IAF/forces yet, that role is reserved for the heavyweight helo like apaches & Mi helos? LCH is stealth platform, you get very little time till you hear its coming & spot it. I am sure anyone who saw this flying will tell you the same from their experience of it. So ground support & sead/dead role makes sense. Maybe that is why atgm integration is not prioritised yet? Obviously in future it will get helina/sant whatever the forces select. But as lsp right now it will not need that tank busting role yet.

Note the Rudra WSI is nicknamed the tankbusters.
 
marich01 said:
So look at this part

"We have flown this chopper quite a lot in our unit and we are highly impressed with its capabilities as it has been able to deliver on all its parameters. Its roles are to provide close air support to ground forces and take out enemy air defences," he said.

See maybe LCH is no intended as a tank buster primary role by the IAF/forces yet, that role is reserved for the heavyweight helo like apaches & Mi helos? LCH is stealth platform, you get very little time till you hear its coming & spot it. I am sure anyone who saw this flying will tell you the same from their experience of it. So ground support & sead/dead role makes sense. Maybe that is why atgm integration is not prioritised yet? Obviously in future it will get helina/sant whatever the forces select. But as lsp right now it will not need that tank busting role yet.

Note the Rudra WSI is nicknamed the tankbusters.
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IAF is just trying to justify it's acquisition.

If you study the MANPADS and AAA capability of Pakistan Army, you will know that SEAD/DEAD via helicopters is almost impossible.

Forget that, the current composition of IAF Helicopters cannot do casualty evacuation inside Pakistani territories. Wrong focus by IAF.

The money spent on attack helicopters could have been used for 10-12 additional Rafales, which would have proven far more useful.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
IAF is just trying to justify it's acquisition.

If you study the MANPADS and AAA capability of Pakistan Army, you will know that SEAD/DEAD via helicopters is almost impossible.
Click to expand...

That part is true, also LCH is armoured so much due to that & its very close by flying when you first hear it coming, in comparison you can hear dhruv/rudra well ahead. I was quite caught by how silently it can fly, that would be very handy. Also standoff weapon if they get any, it can perform limited sead role against the portable battlefield radars/ew system imo. 8km range rocket volley from a high altitude can wreck hidden setup in deserts, and if armed with saaw it can take out posts even further away at least 30 km or more.

edit: different post that got merged.
Live demo of flying op

https://twitter.com/x/status/1614627687460646913
 
marich01 said:
That part is true, also LCH is armoured so much due to that & its very close by flying when you first hear it coming, in comparison you can hear dhruv/rudra well ahead. I was quite caught by how silently it can fly, that would be very handy. Also standoff weapon if they get any, it can perform limited sead role against the portable battlefield radars/ew system imo. 8km range rocket volley from a high altitude can wreck hidden setup in deserts, and if armed with saaw it can take out posts even further away at least 30 km or more.

edit: different post that got merged.
Live demo of flying op

https://twitter.com/x/status/1614627687460646913
Click to expand...
The armouring is against small arms fire. Swiss GDF 35mm shells will be death for LCH trying to get close to a radar installation.

For ATGMs, 6-7km is quite doable.

Anything beyond that will need a mmw radar. SAAW might be an option, but launching SAAW from 4-5km altitude will not give it that long a range.
 
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