United State's NGAD & F/A-XX Fighter Programs : Updates and Discussions

I predict Boeing. They had decades to prepare for this and it paid off with NGAD.

Yeah, especially if the combined effort can reduce cost. But that could leave some companies high and dry, with Boeing sole-sourcing parts from just a few companies. Plus the Pentagon's mistake of committing 2 primary projects to just one company.

Anyway, it's a competition between the makers of the Super Hornet and Tomcat, so I think it's the Tomcat's turn now. You can bet NG has been working on this for a long time too.

Plus it's unclear if NG withdrew from NGAD 'cause they were too advanced or not advanced enough. Or if a single engine design was chosen and they did not have one. That's gonna factor in here as well.
 
Interesting video; it appears to be closely related to the F47 slide, and since it's expected to be more affordable, it seems a single engine will be used.

The SE will have to be developed alongside NGAS. If NGAS is canceled, it would mean F-47 is TE. And NGAS is in limbo right now.
 
IN just blown up this opportunity by going with an inferior system Rafale. I am not saying its inferior to FA18-BLK3, but as system its an inferior to US ecosystem.

F/A-XX won't give us what we want. It will be more suitable for a CATOBAR carrier.
 
Interesting video; it appears to be closely related to the F47 slide, and since it's expected to be more affordable, it seems a single engine will be used.
Note: The owner recently changed the video's title. It's a year old video.

Another element added to suspense. :LOL: So the F-47 is child of X-36, YF-23 or Bird of prey? :ROFLMAO:
Bcoz Trump said "nothing comes close from speed to maneuverability to payload", I think they will make both 1 engine exportable & 2 engine domestic versions. The F-35 shows that with most powerful production F135 engine also its payload is limited & the dry & wet T/STOW are poor, needing ECU. So the XA-10X engine needs to be much more powerful.
 
Some 3D artist imagined & made 3D model & animation of F-47, whose fuselage looks like F/A-XX concept, upward tilted wings remind of Bird-of-Prey, engine bay hump reminds of YF-23.
So F-47 NGAD = F/A-XX + BoP + YF-23. :LOL:🤦‍♂️
I'm putting a smaller collage as the images are huge, bigger than the collage.


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Some selected screenshots from animation showing specific angles to show airframe shape, parts:

1742997302595.jpeg
 
Another artist's good imagination:
> This is tandem tri-plane, but putting canard just in front of intake could obstruct airflow, unless onlyouter 2/3rd or half of canard moves.
> Bcoz of darkened flag in poster, some people are still speculating small all-moving rudders.
> Like Bird-of-Prey the wing can still be slightly tilted up with with drooped winglet, but He forgot to allign the bend-axis longitudinally parallel to length. Such wing adds to stability while a fighter needs to be unstable for agility.
> Such platipus like flatter nose could mean lesser pitch agility & little more RCS return by nose.
> Overall this looks like 1 engine exportable jet. I wonder how in Trump's words "nothing even comes close from speed to maneuverability to payload" & this is "most advanced, capable, lethal".

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Another artist imagines F-47 little longer, dihedral wing with anhedral winglet.
The wing root is shifted back & intakes are also much behind, not enough space for serpentine duct, so engine would be visible.
Engine bays are apart & middle space filled like in Su-57, so might have tandem IWBs.
Perfect side, front, bottom images not available.


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Another artist imagines F-47 little longer, dihedral wing with anhedral winglet.
The wing root is shifted back & intakes are also much behind, not enough space for serpentine duct, so engine would be visible.
Engine bays are apart & middle space filled like in Su-57, so might have tandem IWBs.
Perfect side, front, bottom images not available.


View attachment 41888


View attachment 41889
This one sorta looks like a smaller, tailless stealth version of the 1960s XB-47 Valkyrie.

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Another artist imagines F-47 little longer, dihedral wing with anhedral winglet.
The wing root is shifted back & intakes are also much behind, not enough space for serpentine duct, so engine would be visible.
Engine bays are apart & middle space filled like in Su-57, so might have tandem IWBs.
Perfect side, front, bottom images not available.


View attachment 41888


View attachment 41889
I believe F-47 will have the Bird of Prey dh..... diar..... the slanty wings thingy.

Hopefully today we hear the winner of USN F-A/XX
 
Some 3D artist imagined & made 3D model & animation of F-47, whose fuselage looks like F/A-XX concept, upward tilted wings remind of Bird-of-Prey, engine bay hump reminds of YF-23.
So F-47 NGAD = F/A-XX + BoP + YF-23. :LOL:🤦‍♂️
I'm putting a smaller collage as the images are huge, bigger than the collage.


View attachment 41851


Some selected screenshots from animation showing specific angles to show airframe shape, parts:

View attachment 41852

The artist has updated a modified version w/o canard stating that USN doesn't wan't canards.
Well, this is opposite expectation if USAF wants canards but not USN bcoz the wing leading edge has high sweep angle means higher landing speed w/o canard.
I'm posting a collage again as the images are huge.
> Perhaps the nose & chine need more blending like in Rodrigo Avellas F/A-X concept for bigger & wider coverage radar.
> Wings have been made little Lambda style than Delta earlier.
> There doesn't seem to be any winglet.
> Intakes have DSI. The intake lower edge is ahead of upper edge (blended with wing root). This can be a problem if high AoA & tight turn is desired as some air can slip out over wing causing insufficient air flow & compressor stall. Giving aux-intakes below or moving lip like in EF-2000 would increase complexity & RCS.
> Parallel IWB not tandem & SWB have been marked.
> Engine bays quite far separated, the duct may not be serpentine enough, engine would be visible.
> Exhaust look like that of YF-23 w/o TVC.

It seems that this is going to become a standard look of all 6gen jets. ✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️
Blame game already started on who's copying whom.:ROFLMAO:🤦‍♂️ It is bcoz of planform shaping fundamental started since 5gen.

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For common people like us it can actually be a big headache🤕🤯 to imagine & estimate a new jet in 2D, unless we know how to use 3D CAD S/w.
Most 3D artists also make models w/o thinking too much themselves.

Let's take F-22 as foundation reference.
If we wan't a better TE jet as per 6gen features of more capacity of weapons, fuel, new components, then it'll be bigger. So if the size/volume/weight is more & if same or more dry/wet ATWR (Airframe Thrust to Weight Ratio) needs to be maintained, then more airframe weight -> more thrust -> more air -> more area of intake, duct & inlet.
For idea, F-22's F119 Vs F-35's F-135 engines: 100cm Vs 109cm inlet dia., 116/128 KN Vs 156/191 KN dry/wet thrust. 9% more inlet dia., almost 19% more area, 10.3% more dry thrust, 22.4% more wet thrust.

There is no fixed formula b/w area of intake/duct/inlet & thrust, let's assume 1:1 ratio in increase for easy understanding. So if we fit F-22 with a bigger & 33% better engine of 156*1.33= 207.5 KN, the challenges are -
- increase air flow by 33%, means increase area of intake, duct & inlet by 33%. Inlet diameter increases by square-root(1.33) times or 15.32%.
- increase payload & range, means lengthen the jet.
- restrict airframe volume to 133%.
- restrict airframe height to that of F-22 if possible.

If the airframe expands only in width & height then it is easy to estimate.
If the airframe expands in all 3 XYZ axis in same ratio then also it is easy to estimate.
But if all 3 axis have different ratios then we have to be careful not to eceed new volume/weight.

Option 1 - stretch the airframe length only by 33%, which will need tandem IWB for extra AAMs.
Option 2 - stretch the airframe width only by 33%, which can adjust 4 more AAMs easily.
Option 3 - stretch both airframe width & length by ratio such that X*Y=1.33, like 1.1*1.2 or 10% X 20%.

Exploring option-1 1st, the fuselage width remains same, area of intake, duct & engine increased, again there are 3 sub-options:
1A - expand area in width & height by 15.32%, engine can be pushed down, but intake slightly portrudes down & out, duct above IWB is manageable.
1B - expand area in height only by 33%, engine can be pushed down, but intake portrudes down more & duct above IWB produces bump.
1C - expand area in width only by 33%, engine is pushed down, intake portrudes out sideways but manageable, duct above IWB is manageable.

I don't have 3D CAD S/w, so I put the above options 3 sub-options in approximate cross section diagrams of F-22:

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So we see that increased size/volume of 1 or some components or system affects other parts & entire airframe.
The engine power, size, weight is dictating design of stealth jet if same ATWR has to be maintained.
 
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Some 3D artist imagined & made 3D model & animation of F-47, whose fuselage looks like F/A-XX concept, upward tilted wings remind of Bird-of-Prey, engine bay hump reminds of YF-23.
So F-47 NGAD = F/A-XX + BoP + YF-23. :LOL:🤦‍♂️
I'm putting a smaller collage as the images are huge, bigger than the collage.


View attachment 41851


Some selected screenshots from animation showing specific angles to show airframe shape, parts:

View attachment 41852
With canards ?
Since years we heard canards were bad for stealth.... :LOL:
 
With canards ?
Since years we heard canards were bad for stealth.... :LOL:
It's funny now that I've been seeing Americans now using the same arguments as the Russians when it comes to air combat. First the whole backtracking on canards. Now they are using the maneuverability argument just like the russkies since pl-17 basically outranges anything in western arsenal.
 
With canards ?
Since years we heard canards were bad for stealth.... :LOL:
It's funny now that I've been seeing Americans now using the same arguments as the Russians when it comes to air combat. First the whole backtracking on canards. Now they are using the maneuverability argument just like the russkies since pl-17 basically outranges anything in western arsenal.
1744026185868.png
 
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Reactions: Bon Plan and Lolwa