Explosion near Red Fort: At least 9 dead, several injured in blast

[BoredBear]

I mean, they literally do that, right?

Sops for women now a norm, 12 states' outgo to be Rs 1.7 lakh crore | India News - The Times of India

India News: Spending Will Be .5% Of GDP This Year, Up From .2% Two Years Ago

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

sops grew 250% or more from 0.2% of GDP to 0.5% of GDP. When government wants it does exactly that. putting 100s of billions of dollars into things it feels are necessary.

If they can do it for sops, they can do it for defence too.

Those are state government spendings. We should be talking about central government spendings here. Because Defence comes under Central government. Infact Central govt funding for social services have declined except fully centralised schemes like Jal Jevan or Ayushman Bharat.

Anyways I don't wanna go into argument of why state governments are reducing their capital expenditure and unnecessarily boosting their social spendings. Because that is a whole different discussion. I don't like that either but for this topic, all I would say is what we should look at is central spending.


Also:
Government capex hit 52% of FY26 Budget estimates in H1, led by Roads and Railways. Total capex rose 40% YoY to ₹5.8 trillion, with fiscal deficit staying manageable.

https://www.financialexpress.com/business/industry-capex-reaches-52-of-fy26-budget-estimates-in-h1-roads-and-railway-lead-spending-4033022/

 

[Saaho]

Those are state government spendings. We should be talking about central government spendings here. Because Defence comes under Central government. Infact Central govt funding for social services have declined except fully centralised schemes like Jal Jevan or Ayushman Bharat.

Anyways I don't wanna go into argument of why state governments are reducing their capital expenditure and unnecessarily boosting their social spendings. Because that is a whole different discussion. I don't like that either but for this topic, all I would say is what we should look at is central spending.
View attachment 48032

Also:
Government capex hit 52% of FY26 Budget estimates in H1, led by Roads and Railways. Total capex rose 40% YoY to ₹5.8 trillion, with fiscal deficit staying manageable.

https://www.financialexpress.com/business/industry-capex-reaches-52-of-fy26-budget-estimates-in-h1-roads-and-railway-lead-spending-4033022/

Look, at the end of the day it is public money. How you account for it is a problem that can be solved.

Indian central government started a ration scheme in 2020 to feed a lot of folks (800 million for what i gather). PM-GKAY costs about 24 billion dollars a year and it was supposed to be a pandemic only scheme.

That alone can double India's cap-ex in defence. Then there are massive number of state level schemes that are funded by loans from center. There are loan schemes that always result in non payment of loans.

Heck, when it comes to that, Alcohol and Tobacco market size is close to 75 billion dollars today (60 billion alcohol + 16 billion tobacco). A 20% additional tax will get you close to 10 billion additional revenue even after decrease in sales.

The funds are there to spend on defence, just not being properly utilized and wasted on sops. And to top it all, we encourage forces to not utilize even what is allocated.

 

[BoredBear]

Look, at the end of the day it is public money. How you account for it is a problem that can be solved.

Indian central government started a ration scheme in 2020 to feed a lot of folks (800 million for what i gather). PM-GKAY costs about 24 billion dollars a year and it was supposed to be a pandemic only scheme.

That alone can double India's cap-ex in defence. Then there are massive number of state level schemes that are funded by loans from center. There are loan schemes that always result in non payment of loans.

Heck, when it comes to that, Alcohol and Tobacco market size is close to 75 billion dollars today (60 billion alcohol + 16 billion tobacco). A 20% additional tax will get you close to 10 billion additional revenue even after decrease in sales.

The funds are there to spend on defence, just not being properly utilized and wasted on sops. And to top it all, we encourage forces to not utilize even what is allocated.

Unfortunately my friend reducing PM-GKAY would be political suicide. Same way discontinuing MNREGA would be. People simply are accustomed to these kind of schemes. Unless we reach a certain socio-economical point such schemes are not going away even if somebody wants to remove it they will face resistance from our own people. The only thing the government can probably do is increasing taxes further on Sin items, increasing indirect taxes on certain other areas, etc. Unfortunately our direct tax base is very small. And neither people like it when the Government increase direct taxes nor the Government because higher direct taxes negatively affect economic growth..

 

[Saaho]

Unfortunately my friend reducing PM-GKAY would be political suicide. Same way discontinuing MNREGA would be. People simply are accustomed to these kind of schemes. Unless we reach a certain socio-economical point such schemes are not going away even if somebody wants to remove it they will face resistance from our own people. The only thing the government can probably do is increasing taxes further on Sin items, increasing indirect taxes on certain other areas, etc. Unfortunately our direct tax base is very small. And neither people like it when the Government increase direct taxes nor the Government because higher direct taxes negatively affect economic growth..

Well, populism always needs to be balanced against real needs. Defence is a real need now. Losing few cities to Pakistan will make any government fall faster. Having a massive terror attack --like the scope of this red fort one, orignally planned-- will falter both economy and political capital.

I think time is now ripe that a proper funding of defence should be done. When you are in a hole, it should not be dug futher and god knows India is in a defence modernization hole since last 70 years or so. About time some hard decision be made. No one loses election for making alcohol more expensive or making cars more expensive. But get beaten in a shooting match or worse getting dragged in a war unprepared will surely destroy a political party's future.

 

[Subgradewalker]

Look, at the end of the day it is public money. How you account for it is a problem that can be solved.

Indian central government started a ration scheme in 2020 to feed a lot of folks (800 million for what i gather). PM-GKAY costs about 24 billion dollars a year and it was supposed to be a pandemic only scheme.

That alone can double India's cap-ex in defence. Then there are massive number of state level schemes that are funded by loans from center. There are loan schemes that always result in non payment of loans.

Heck, when it comes to that, Alcohol and Tobacco market size is close to 75 billion dollars today (60 billion alcohol + 16 billion tobacco). A 20% additional tax will get you close to 10 billion additional revenue even after decrease in sales.

The funds are there to spend on defence, just not being properly utilized and wasted on sops. And to top it all, we encourage forces to not utilize even what is allocated.

You can't seperate politics from polity and policy. It comes pack and parceled with democracy. Especially one like India, with socialist past and huge number of people accustomed to freebies.
If opposition goes on to promising that they will waive all loans for farmers ( most bank loans by farmers are to rich ones. The needy ones didn't have access to banking in those days. They had to rely on loan sharks. Lot still do) and they win, ruling party factors that into account too. So, for all you slurs at women, GOI has already done far far better than previous govt when it comes to fiscal discipline. And it didn't touch defense spending by cutting it. It only increased.

Secondly, true that even state schemes are public money, but not every state has same govt. They have their own arithmetic. Parties literally have away refrigerators before vote to win. The demand of voters etc are different too. So, using slur of a marathi scheme because a narrative is peddled by the same ecosystem which started the trend of promoting these freebies. It's just jealousy that they lost to the same gimmick that they considered theirs. Maybe you oughta move from Maharashtra scheme and look at others states too. You will realise the web of freebies socialism has spread which ultimately throttled and keep throttling long term economic gains.

Soz better to focus on GOI, central govt, it's schemes and it's fiscal discipline. Regulatory reforms, infra push, investment etc. I will say it again, there's no justification for a bad 25Billion dollar deal at the cost of our own R&D initiatives and other goals pertaining to defense sector. A deal which will be huge political issue no matter the result. A deal which will provide zero force multiplier to IAF in the timeline we are talking about.
We don't know whats going on at the highest level between french and Indians. But there's no point in half assed platforms coming in 2030s and ultimately depending on foreign kits for MRO. Let the Rafale-M come. Let Dassault set up it's MRO facility in India. We have had many deals in past which left us more crippled due to such issues that don't catch headlines in peace but can cost heads in war.

I would rather have even half of that 25 billion go into funding R&D of startups and a pro-risk allocation to DRDO. Where DRDO doesn't have to face parliamentary scrutiny for each and every R&D project initiated curbing the kind of risk taking mindset needed for successful Innovations. And even all that is for China being adversary. Not pak.

Criticise right things. Don't let the narrative hijack your thought process.

 

[screambowl]

Also:
Government capex hit 52% of FY26 Budget estimates in H1, led by Roads and Railways. Total capex rose 40% YoY to ₹5.8 trillion, with fiscal deficit staying manageable.

Third class quality of material being used in all these projects.

 

[Subgradewalker]

Look, things have significance when they make significant impact. USA dropped nukes on Japan, now Japan does not says or act on "We gotta defeat USA" -- atleast publicly.

If you want the Pakistan question to have a final solution, you gotta hit them where it hurts. And that part is generals and leaders of Pakistan's military establishment. Blow up their residences, kill their familes, blow up their investments, destroy their DHAs, blow up their factories and Askari Foundation stuff, blow up the banks owned by them and you will find them being way less adventerous than they are right now.

Look at what Israel did to Sinwar et al.

Cost of this, however, is the risk of a full fledged war. And for that you should be ready. And for past 70 years, we have never been ready irrespective of our economic heft.

That's called escalation matrix. Gotta save something for the next time.
2016→2019→2025. What you saw between these three responses what escalation ladder. And it's wasn't just evolution of strategy but also the structure of our armed forces. From every incident, pak claimed a victory through PR while armed forces achieved the set goals and also learned things and underwent own evolution.
Same with Galwan 2020. It's not just policy that changed but internal management, priority and strategic calculus of forces changed towards Chinese borders too.

It's easy to talk about destroying where it hurts, but we aren't Israel with the mastery of technology and full backing of a superpower through technology sharing. And for that, Israel plays it's role as enforced of US interests in middle East. Neither do we have adversary as a non nuclear Japan. The OP sindoor is what led to announcement of Sudarshan Chakra from Red fort. Looking at PMs earlier statements from Red fort, it always reflected in policy implementation and groundwork. It works not as pressuring just PSUs, but by linking himself to the project, he has roped in the bureaucratic machinery to take it seriously too. He has also put pressure on GOI itself too. Probably fast tracked our AD/A2 bubble by years, of not decades.

And since we are talking in this thread... Don't limit threat perception to vectors fired from Pakistan. There are so many traitors inside that will go on overdrive mode to impact internal security. Red fort terror attack should be grave reminder of this. The Pakistan problem is very multifaceted and it requires more than FA and Brahmos to deal with. The jihadi problem isn't subservient to Pakistan anymore. And Taliban should be a grave reminder of that.

 

[Subgradewalker]

Well, populism always needs to be balanced against real needs. Defence is a real need now. Losing few cities to Pakistan will make any government fall faster. Having a massive terror attack --like the scope of this red fort one, orignally planned-- will falter both economy and political capital.

I think time is now ripe that a proper funding of defence should be done. When you are in a hole, it should not be dug futher and god knows India is in a defence modernization hole since last 70 years or so. About time some hard decision be made. No one loses election for making alcohol more expensive or making cars more expensive. But get beaten in a shooting match or worse getting dragged in a war unprepared will surely destroy a political party's future.

Who here wouldnt like that. The issue was the way you went about your stance. Which ignored the context and ground reality and limitations we face.

Fully agree with your take on Terrorist attack in Delhi red fort. That's why we are too keeping an eye on the next move from the forces and agencies. Proper funding isn't the issue, utilising the funds is. When PSUs run overstretched, HAL being HAL, and private industry just roped in. What India needs is the capacity to utilise the funding properly. And to build those capacities, govt needs to fund policies and projects that doesn't show in defense spending. From education to startups and scaling. While expanding manufacturing base inside India for as many platforms possible through pvt route.

 

[screambowl]

Indian central government started a ration scheme in 2020 to feed a lot of folks (800 million for what i gather). PM-GKAY costs about 24 billion dollars a year and it was supposed to be a pandemic only scheme.

Would have lost Bihar elections if this Choro ka Pait Bharo scheme had been discontinued. I was talking about this to Subgradewalker that looters in huge quantities.

There are lots of jobs from low level Mazdoor to STEM technicians, engineers and Scientists defence industry can produce. But see, the issue is there is no policy. You have so many unemployed PHDs who are ending up looking for government jobs or teaching in some xyz colleges, why cant government fund deep tech startups?

Deep tech startups are the backbone of defence industries. DRDO can't do anything alone when it comes to critical technology. Privatisation has to be there and without government incentive this can't be reached.

US has funded so much into deep tech startups that now these startups have become MNCs.

 

[Saaho]

That's called escalation matrix. Gotta save something for the next time.

Actually no. You want to appear as an absolute ape and unreasonable and clinically insane at that. You know, the one who wants to end the entire world because someone moved his chair. Then only Islamists fear you.

There is a reason why Jewish folks are so brutal to Palestinians. Because thats the only thing that stops them from trying that shit again.

Hit everything owned by Pakistan's military and especially its generals and you will see how much they worry before messing with you.

Kill their terror trainers and they will hire new ones. They will build new mosques. Kill munir, his family and his investments and next one will behave.

 

[screambowl]

Actually no. You want to appear as an absolute ape and unreasonable and clinically mad at that. You know, the one who wants to end the entire world because someone moved his chair. Then only Islamists fear you.

There is a reason why Jewish folks are so brutal to Palestinians. Because thats the only thing that stops them from trying that shit again.

Hit everything owned by Pakistan's military and especially its generals and you will see how much they worry before messing with you.

Kill their terror trainers and they will hire new ones. They will build new mosques. Kill munir, his family and his investments and next one will behave.

I think some back channel deal happening with Pakistan to stop all this what they have started. Most probably India will be convincing them not to create a situation where whole region can land up in full scale war.

 

[Saaho]

I think some back channel deal happening with Pakistan to stop all this what they have started. Most probably India will be convincing them not to create a situation where whole region can land up in full scale war.

I will still say kill munir and his family and rest of Pakistan's military leadership explicitly in an act of war to set a precedence that is never forgotten.

Deals and negotiations will always be forgotten. Remember Shimla agreement? Did not even outlast the paper it was written on. Because perps of 71 --Tikka Khan, Yahyah Khan-- were not brutally killed by Indian forces.

 

[Subgradewalker]

I will still say kill munir and his family and rest of Pakistan's military leadership explicitly in an act of war to set a precedence that is never forgotten.

Deals and negotiations will always be forgotten. Remember Shimla agreement? Did not even outlast the paper it was written on. Because perps of 71 --Tikka Khan, Yahyah Khan-- were not brutally killed by Indian forces.

Sure. But just let's have realistic expectations. Even Hafiz and azhar still roam despite 26/11. And also this

The jihadi problem isn't subservient to Pakistan anymore. And Taliban should be a grave reminder of that.

 

[BoredBear]

Third class quality of material being used in all these projects.

Evidence? Again extraordinary claims like these requires extraordinary data to back it up. Is BRO making third grade roads? Is Indian railways making third grade railway line? If so where? What is the evidence? I not saying that is there is no corruption in infrastructure project. Ofc there is corruption. I'm just saying passing off such generic statement means nothing if it's not about a specific project without any evidence to back it up.

Kehne ko to mein bhi bol sakta hoon "Corruption ho raha hai".

 

[Subgradewalker]

Would have lost Bihar elections if this Choro ka Pait Bharo scheme had been discontinued. I was talking about this to Subgradewalker that looters in huge quantities.

There are lots of jobs from low level Mazdoor to STEM technicians, engineers and Scientists defence industry can produce. But see, the issue is there is no policy. You have so many unemployed PHDs who are ending up looking for government jobs or teaching in some xyz colleges, why cant government fund deep tech startups?

Deep tech startups are the backbone of defence industries. DRDO can't do anything alone when it comes to critical technology. Privatisation has to be there and without government incentive this can't be reached.

US has funded so much into deep tech startups that now these startups have become MNCs.

Ek baat bolu.. 90% of those unemployed PHD holders don't deserve the role needed to advance the field they are expert in. I don't know when it happened, but our PhD ecosystem became sht. As opposed to sensible thing with an expert having limited scholars under them and going through intensive training. Now you churn out PhD as if it's B.A degree.

Sirf IITs won't do na. And any funding and reforms in this ( if any via NEP 2020 and changed in pedagogy of CBSE, QuantIndia, IndiaAI) will reflect a decade later. Just as repeated reservations( admission, jobs, promotions) over merit has started to reflected in the pool.

But I do have some hope. While Modi govt isnt complete opposite to socialist govt. They are more pro-development and long term vision than any govt before ( atal ni). That leaves some hope that future non-dynast leaders will be even more pro-development.

 

[BoredBear]

Would have lost Bihar elections if this Choro ka Pait Bharo scheme had been discontinued. I was talking about this to Subgradewalker that looters in huge quantities.

There are lots of jobs from low level Mazdoor to STEM technicians, engineers and Scientists defence industry can produce. But see, the issue is there is no policy. You have so many unemployed PHDs who are ending up looking for government jobs or teaching in some xyz colleges, why cant government fund deep tech startups?

Deep tech startups are the backbone of defence industries. DRDO can't do anything alone when it comes to critical technology. Privatisation has to be there and without government incentive this can't be reached.

US has funded so much into deep tech startups that now these startups have become MNCs.

US government doesn't fund most of the R&D there though.....You should be asking the question to our corporates what are they doing with all that money despite lower corporate taxes on them. Why are they not recruiting those PhD guys? Why are they not funding R&D in our Universities like their American counterparts? Why are these corporates not partnering with Universities? Why only the government has been carrying the burden of funding R&D since time immemorial?

Guess what which sector most of private R&D happens in India? Pharmaceuticals and recently defence. That's it

Look at China, it's a communist country (although their economy is corporatist) yet majority of their R&D funding comes from private companies.

 

[Saaho]

Sure. But just let's have realistic expectations. Even Hafiz and azhar still roam despite 26/11. And also this

Well, killing Munir is much more reliable than killing Hafiz or Azhar. He has a home, he has a known family. He has known investments. He controls things that are much more visible. Finding and killing Hafiz and Azhar is much harder because they are basically nobodies and can hide anywhere.

 

[Saaho]

Sure. But just let's have realistic expectations. Even Hafiz and azhar still roam despite 26/11. And also this

For us, the biggest headache will be Pakistan unless we deal with it. And as Mao said, punish one teach a hundred.

 

[Kiduva21]

if Imran Khan is killed in jail by PAK military , will there be a protest? will Pak military start a war with India to suppress the protest?

 

[Sathya]

if Imran Khan is killed in jail by PAK military , will there be a protest? will Pak military start a war with India to suppress the protest?

If pak starts war, we ll be helping pak to get the power back to its government.
Getting rid of potential madman nuclear scenario.