IAF looks to procure six Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft
NEW DELHI: Aimed at adding force multiplier Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft systems, the Indian Air Force has issued a Request for Infor
Airborne Early Warning Systems - A-50EI Phalcon, DRDO Netra AEW&C, DRDO AWACS
- Thread starter Ashwin
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What is the need for this now?IAF looks to procure six Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft
NEW DELHI: Aimed at adding force multiplier Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft systems, the Indian Air Force has issued a Request for Inforwww.newindianexpress.com
I wonder what this new RfI will achieve that the last one couldn't.
There are only a limited number of options in the intl market. E7 Wedgetail, IAI/Elta Phalcon and SAAB Globaleye. Doubt Russia's modernized A-50 will be competitive with Western offerings.
Benchmarking can be done by site visits/oem briefings or consulting friendly AFs that operate those ac.
ig we will go with a mordernised version of the IAI phalcon? idk on which jet though since the il76 has abysmal service life. maybe more a321? It could also be an awacs variant of the c390 if we sign that MTA deal with them
Phalcon would be the most logical option. Imo, we should be opting for a business jet airframe like the Bombardier Global 6500 which has already been selected for the DRDO ISTAR project. It is a reliable aircraft with multiple conversion options for special mission roles.
Most recently, the ROKAF (an existing operator of the Wedgetail) chose the same jet for its next gen awacs, fitted with a conformal Phalcon radar.
FW-MAG Future Warfare Magazine - South Korea selects Bombardier Defense/L3Harris GLOBAL 6500 for next-generation airborne early warning fleet
South Korea selects Bombardier Defense/L3Harris GLOBAL 6500 for next-generation airborne early warning fleet
www.fw-mag.com
The Israelis pioneered conformal array awacs tech with the B707 Condor sold to Chile back in the 1990s. I don't think the IAF will insist on the IL--76 like it did in the early 2000s because of the potential for sanctions.
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Its not decent, just too much.
There will be a Mk-2A and that should replace 3 phalcons in the late 2030s. Be happy with it.
IAF’s biggest folly is optimising for everything cutting edge too much. We dont even know AWACS evolve in the future.
Tbh, I don't see how GoI/MoD could approve another awacs program with Mk1A and Mk2 still in dev. The IAF should ideally be supplementing them with SAR sats like EOS-9.
A330 is too big a platform for awacs. Dev costs and opex will be high. The IAF has already had to settle for 2nd hand B767s for its MRTT prog vs A330 (a role in which it has proven itself)
ill be very honest here. I dont think we should get these many AWACS.
AWACS are very powerful but a single point of failure platform. One missile hit and its mission kill at the optimistic end and aircraft and crew death in the realistic end.
Instead what we should do is find out ways to use DAS of drones(which to its credit DRDO is doing right now with the new AESA pods for drones)
IF we find a way to make lets say 5 drones get in sync with each other we should be able to increase the range as well as get 5 different points of view for a radar system.
We need some AWACS for surveillance over BoB and IOR by being based in Andaman as well, maybe 2-3 accounting for maintainability.
The Phalcons or older Netra Mk1s should be kept as low flying cruise missile detection platforms which will greatly boost Indian air defence capability to deal with such threats while the newer Mk1As and Mk2s can face Pak/China.
What do you make of the 360° coverage, 4D AESA radar equipped AWACS, the RfI for which was released sometime around Sep-Oct in 2024, in light of the freshly released RfI for 6 AEWCS? Not denying the importance of SAR sats, but a massive AF like ours need more AWACS too.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't IAF also interested in procuring new refuellers alongside the converted 2nd hand B767 ones? So I'd guess that higher opex of A330 will be less of an issue with increasing budget and the fact that we had a 360° AWACS (on A330) programme before it was put it in the back burner for Netra MK1A n MK2.
Maybe they want to get a bundle deal, hence figuring out future needs too and get the jets manufactured in India with more indigineous content. 12-18 Airframes are a big deal, especially in current world economy.
And it's not like substantial work has started yet. Approved/hold/cancelled are a signature away. If our finances allows it, there's no fault in developing more AWACS without at the cost of UAV led sensor assets.
And it's not like substantial work has started yet. Approved/hold/cancelled are a signature away. If our finances allows it, there's no fault in developing more AWACS without at the cost of UAV led sensor assets.
To me, the new tender looks like a rationalization exercise where the IAF has gone from demanding an A330-based hybrid aew-tanker in 2018 (widely seen as unrealistic) to a Bombardier G6500/Gulfstream G600 class bizjet platform. It has likely taken into consideration lifecycle costs as with the MRFA prog.
This RFI opens the door to alternatives like SAAB Globaleye (which is incidentally replacing France's E-3F Sentry) and IAI ELW 2095 Phalcon (replacing ROKAF E7s) Figures quoted for Globaleye and Phalcon are quite competitive with top-end AEW&C like E7 Wedgetail.
We surely need numbers buy redundancy is important as LRAAM like PL-17/21 and strategic SAM are around the corner.
Edit: I highly doubt there would be room for 2 different tanker types in any AF barring perhaps the USAF.
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Assuming the "6 x Whatever this is (possibly Airbus 330)" as mentioned in the below quoted tweet
is a replacement for the Phalcon AWACS in the 2030s , with the advent of LRSAM & possibly Hypersonic LR AAMs & LR SAMs in a decade plus the advent of SBS satellite systems do we really need AWACS ?
Or do we need some sort of Airborne Battle Monitoring Management & Comunication System in the background without being on the frontlines networking between the SBS , the frontline , SHQ etc to provide a holistic picture as opposed to the frontline role the AEW / AWACS plays in present war zones .
I mean they have their utility too but not against peer enemies.
How will the stuff you mention guide and cue BVRMs to target? SBS3 can't. Ground radars are also susceptible to ARMs like how AWACS is to AAM.Assuming the "6 x Whatever this is (possibly Airbus 330)" as mentioned in the below quoted tweet
is a replacement for the Phalcon AWACS in the 2030s , with the advent of LRSAM & possibly Hypersonic LR AAMs & LR SAMs in a decade plus the advent of SBS satellite systems do we really need AWACS ?
Or do we need some sort of Airborne Battle Monitoring Management & Comunication System in the background without being on the frontlines networking between the SBS , the frontline , SHQ etc to provide a holistic picture as opposed to the frontline role the AEW / AWACS plays in present war zones .
I mean they have their utility too but not against peer enemies.
Three different solutions for the same problem on three different platforms. All this while USAF want to cancel Wedgetail for a lower end stopgap. Thats says something.
Afaik, SBS-3 can only play a complementary role to awacs in the air warfare domain currently (unlike space where payloads like Digantara SCOT provide surveillance over other satellites). So for the foreseeable future, manned AWACS will remain relevant (perhaps with unmanned wingmen/ distributed sensor-equipped drones for escort/extended radar coverage.Assuming the "6 x Whatever this is (possibly Airbus 330)" as mentioned in the below quoted tweet
is a replacement for the Phalcon AWACS in the 2030s , with the advent of LRSAM & possibly Hypersonic LR AAMs & LR SAMs in a decade plus the advent of SBS satellite systems do we really need AWACS ?
Or do we need some sort of Airborne Battle Monitoring Management & Comunication System in the background without being on the frontlines networking between the SBS , the frontline , SHQ etc to provide a holistic picture as opposed to the frontline role the AEW / AWACS plays in present war zones .
I mean they have their utility too but not against peer enemies.
In the early 2000s, Russian bureaus had displayed pioneering concepts like the Zond UAV configured with a dorsal 3-panel radar antenna which was eventually abandoned because of technical limitations at the time. But it could well make a comeback in the 2030s and beyond.
You already have F-35 DAS detect & IIRC track SSM launches some 1-2000 kms away way back in 2019-20 which means the tech was developed & matured at least a few years before that.
You can get more information about it on the F-35 thread or check on sweetie's posts on the same thread on the subject matter or can ask sweetie @Innominate although I doubt sweetie'd respond , especially with me around.
China's J-20 would either reflect the same tech today or should do so in a few years time. AMCA should do so too in exactly a decade from now if not slightly earlier.
So the tech is already available . It's a question of how do individual countries go about its application ?!