Balochistan : News, Discussions & Updates

Imagine you are a diplomat with your family in Kandahar in a house. Who do you want as your protection? A platoon of ghatak, a platoon of ITBP guys or a platoon from any metro police in India?

The ghatak platoon is DIA, the ITBP guys are RAW and the metro police is IB.

The ITBP guys are doing well with the decision making constraints they have. But will you settle for them if you have a better alternative to protect your family?
The amount of ingress of Armed forces inside the government in US, if we had 5% of that, we would have done okay with khakhi chaddi UPSC pass outs led RAW.

You both have been maybe brainwashed by the recent Bollywood romanticization of RAW.

The want of control over Intelligence and an armed force by the government is what's destroying India.

Similar to intelligence, another field is border management. Had the CAPFs been left alone from the rot of UPSC passouts, we wouldn't be having the problem to track sleeper cells inside India with access to automatic weapons and explosives.
Tell me which part of my reply seemed "Bollywood indoctrination" to you? You were cribbing about civilian control over decision matrix in our security architectecture and fantasizing about DIA as some miraculous solution. I pointed out the fallacies in your assessment. Infact, it was you, who made some Bollywood type (il)logical connection between us "reading the pattern" and field agents weeding out pests in a nation of 1.5 billion people with limited connectivity a decade ago.

Let me point out some things to you:-

1. Starting with Kandhar scenario. Do you mean protection as in security detail acting as bodyguard or protection by making an information network, so that any potential harm can be pre-empted? If its first, then I would suggest SPG since they are trained to protect. If it's second, then the other will be RAW. I know you will have issues with this choice but I will explain it further points.

2. You cannot escape your neighborhood. This is the reality we live in. Surrounded by nations with high number of coup, civil war, military interference and a behemoth whose military is mandated to protect a politburo, not a nation. The CCP has far more fundamental control over PLA then GOI does over IA. In such neighborhood, you've got a big nation prone to internal violence, an actual instance of a battalion mutiny in 1984, seperatists and limited state capacity at the time of independence. Crib all you want but such a stark contrast doesn't appear out of blue. Not all fear of civil administration back then was unfounded.

The ideal situation you've in mind, happens once the state capacity and capability stabilises with respect to its institutions, economy, polity and sovereignty. When would you say India achieved it? 1971? 1991? 1998?2004? 2014? 2025?

3. What RAW needs is not less oversight, but autonomy. There's a difference. Autonomy from Beauracracy by having its own distinct recruitment, training and promotion pipeline. But in a way which can bypass parliamentary intervention and policies like reservation. Seperation of cadre and operations internally for info gathering, analysis, reporting, monitoring etc. Better technological aid to sift through information. A central processing unit which gather info from all agencies and dispatch analysis to concerned agency mandated to act on it. None of them will be news headline or parliamentary debate. Because that information about our capabilities is as much strategic asset as EW systems deployed by forces. Still, Even within current system, RAW has legal ways to absorb personnel permanently and lot of grey zones to do what's needed . (Note that field agents aren't included as they are usually out of the gambit of public discourse ).

4. Coming to the point of your frustrations, the IAS/IPS mess. Yes, it's real. No, the solution is not DIA or lessening of civil oversight in intelligence & military domain.
The Deputation game. Every domain/ministry/institution is suffering from this rot. Commerce, diplomacy, R&D anything. There is a very very powerful lobby sitting across India which advantages from current dynamics. That's your Cabinet secretaries, JS, Directors, Collectors, DM, any position which has control over populace. Individually, they seem vulnerable to politicians and people but as a collective they have the dominance.
Right now the reality is that government has limited options to legally recruit employees.
Even if one new pipeline is added, it will be it's own headache to come up with a way that is not UPSC copy. If you have suggestions, pray tell.
But that will still be under civilian oversight, require political go ahead and answerable to either of PMO, MoD, CCS, NSCS etc. A new Secretary will be added to hierarchy which will be reserved for that distinct pipeline. Sort of our new military department under MoD. The General isn't UPSC recruit but still works under civilian frame. Without solving core issues (many of them nothing to do with deputation), a new hiring policy won't bring any changes.


But that can be applied to most of the agencies and department. Have you not been viewing various other threads and us "reading" the inefficiencies? Just not as wrongly directed as you are doing.

Be realistic. Come up with solutions within the constraints. Don't expect overnight sucess. It might seem big, but 10 years ain't enough for state to cut off every institutional rot within. (State≠GOI) 10 years ago, the MM did not have any power and UPA was a pack of wolves let free upon our state where even the Terrorists enjoyed patronage. Red terror met with green one.
 
Blind belief in systems created to protect the central power from an irrational fear will be the downfall of this current system.

Have a good day to rising sun.

And to the rational guy, come back when you actually know something worthwhile on how these guys function.
And you come back after some introspection over your stupid proposal of emulating an agency which couldn't even save half of its country 50 years ago.

No counterpoints on CIA Mossad MI6 NSA being civilian agencies, the massive failures of le military ISI, no counterpoints of the most elite special forces of India being RAW units but rather big big words like Bollywood indoctrination 🤣.
Tell me which part of my reply seemed "Bollywood indoctrination" to you? You were cribbing about civilian control over decision matrix in our security architectecture and fantasizing about DIA as some miraculous solution. I pointed out the fallacies in your assessment. Infact, it was you, who made some Bollywood type (il)logical connection between us "reading the pattern" and field agents weeding out pests in a nation of 1.5 billion people with limited connectivity a decade ago.

Let me point out some things to you:-

1. Starting with Kandhar scenario. Do you mean protection as in security detail acting as bodyguard or protection by making an information network, so that any potential harm can be pre-empted? If its first, then I would suggest SPG since they are trained to protect. If it's second, then the other will be RAW. I know you will have issues with this choice but I will explain it further points.

2. You cannot escape your neighborhood. This is the reality we live in. Surrounded by nations with high number of coup, civil war, military interference and a behemoth whose military is mandated to protect a politburo, not a nation. The CCP has far more fundamental control over PLA then GOI does over IA. In such neighborhood, you've got a big nation prone to internal violence, an actual instance of a battalion mutiny in 1984, seperatists and limited state capacity at the time of independence. Crib all you want but such a stark contrast doesn't appear out of blue. Not all fear of civil administration back then was unfounded.

The ideal situation you've in mind, happens once the state capacity and capability stabilises with respect to its institutions, economy, polity and sovereignty. When would you say India achieved it? 1971? 1991? 1998?2004? 2014? 2025?

3. What RAW needs is not less oversight, but autonomy. There's a difference. Autonomy from Beauracracy by having its own distinct recruitment, training and promotion pipeline. But in a way which can bypass parliamentary intervention and policies like reservation. Seperation of cadre and operations internally for info gathering, analysis, reporting, monitoring etc. Better technological aid to sift through information. A central processing unit which gather info from all agencies and dispatch analysis to concerned agency mandated to act on it. None of them will be news headline or parliamentary debate. Because that information about our capabilities is as much strategic asset as EW systems deployed by forces. Still, Even within current system, RAW has legal ways to absorb personnel permanently and lot of grey zones to do what's needed . (Note that field agents aren't included as they are usually out of the gambit of public discourse ).

4. Coming to the point of your frustrations, the IAS/IPS mess. Yes, it's real. No, the solution is not DIA or lessening of civil oversight in intelligence & military domain.
The Deputation game. Every domain/ministry/institution is suffering from this rot. Commerce, diplomacy, R&D anything. There is a very very powerful lobby sitting across India which advantages from current dynamics. That's your Cabinet secretaries, JS, Directors, Collectors, DM, any position which has control over populace. Individually, they seem vulnerable to politicians and people but as a collective they have the dominance.
Right now the reality is that government has limited options to legally recruit employees.
Even if one new pipeline is added, it will be it's own headache to come up with a way that is not UPSC copy. If you have suggestions, pray tell.
But that will still be under civilian oversight, require political go ahead and answerable to either of PMO, MoD, CCS, NSCS etc. A new Secretary will be added to hierarchy which will be reserved for that distinct pipeline. Sort of our new military department under MoD. The General isn't UPSC recruit but still works under civilian frame. Without solving core issues (many of them nothing to do with deputation), a new hiring policy won't bring any changes.


But that can be applied to most of the agencies and department. Have you not been viewing various other threads and us "reading" the inefficiencies? Just not as wrongly directed as you are doing.

Be realistic. Come up with solutions within the constraints. Don't expect overnight sucess. It might seem big, but 10 years ain't enough for state to cut off every institutional rot within. (State≠GOI) 10 years ago, the MM did not have any power and UPA was a pack of wolves let free upon our state where even the Terrorists enjoyed patronage. Red terror met with green one.
Don't expect realism from emotional people they dont tend to have the best thinking or analysis skills. Their emotions cloud them.
 
In India politicians are scared of the intelligence agencies and military so to keep check and keep the control they have IPS for intelligence and IAS in MoD. The standard and quality of Indian politicians and their background is very weak. None of them are from either technocrats or intelligence or military background. It is sad.

Other than that neither military or intelligence is a part of policy making. Because you don't have weapon making industries in India who can fund political career of these guys to expand their business. Therefore no autonomy.
 
RAW is kept at the helm by Mudi and the silent sikh previously is because they are afraid of an armed forces led intelligence becoming a force like ISI of Pakistan.

Dr. Singh may have by passed Sonia Gandhi and told his then the NSA to try something. PNS Minhas, Gangs war in Karachi, Technical Support Division etc all occured when he was the PM. Hunny Bakshi on a podcaste told once that NSA came to him and said to work on settling the score. Pakistan is travelling with a beggign bowl could be due to Dr. Singh. Finally he was an economist.
 
Dr. Singh may have by passed Sonia Gandhi and told his then the NSA to try something. PNS Minhas, Gangs war in Karachi, Technical Support Division etc all occured when he was the PM. Hunny Bakshi on a podcaste told once that NSA came to him and said to work on settling the score. Pakistan is travelling with a beggign bowl could be due to Dr. Singh. Finally he was an economist.
Never heard of Technical Support Division, search about it, came across this article;


Absolutely disgusted by Armys treatment of Hunny Bakshi and other members of TSD. Absolutely disgusting. Vikram Singh and other jokers deserve to be publically humiliated.
 
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Absolutely disgusted by Armys treatment of Hunny Bakshi and other members of TSD. Absolutely disgusting. Vikram Singh and other jokers deserve to be publically humiliated.

Most probably their cover was blown. And TSD as per the law is not under secrets act, like IB and R&AW. If asked what they have done they will have to reveal. Luckily no one asked them.
 
If you were to ask me, Iran is ensuring Balochistan remains unstable if the Americans attack. If the Pakistanis are busy with Balochistan, their hands will be tied with respect to helping the Americans in Iran.

And everyone knows, the brown pants are just waiting to get paid more and jump in with their men as fodder.
 
IMO, We needs to evaluate our security grid, as sleeper cells are anticipated to activate in major cities to execute plans that distract from the current Balochistan issue. If anything occurs this time Trump cant prevent the war and Munir won't find a safe bunker.
 
Poor girl has shown her face, there will be nowhere safe for her in Pakistan once Munir cracks down. Hope spooks can provide her safe harbor to India -- cultivate people like her and India:Balochistan :: Pakistan:Kashmir.

 
If you were to ask me, Iran is ensuring Balochistan remains unstable if the Americans attack. If the Pakistanis are busy with Balochistan, their hands will be tied with respect to helping the Americans in Iran.

And everyone knows, the brown pants are just waiting to get paid more and jump in with their men as fodder.
The last time Balochistan saw a major attack was the first time the Jaffar Express was targeted which led to dozens of Fauji Foundation personnel including army officers being kidnapped.

How that was resolved is still a mystery with conflicting reports online where some suggested a massacre & others suggested those personnel were ransomed with still others suggesting a mix of the above two events.

Munira ended up blaming India & shortly after that we saw the massacre at Pahalgam. It cannot be that Fauji Foundation is totally in the dark about who's behind the Jaffar Express attack. It stands to reason the same forces are behind the current events in Balochistan.

For the record , the Jaffar Express attack occurred in mid March , Murtad Shi'a Munira made his obscene speech of a " hard state " to Non Resident Paxtanis / Dual citizens in early April (?) , the massacre in Pahalgam happened in late April , Operation Sindoor was executed in early May & by mid June Israel was bombarding Iran .

Things don't exactly add up vis a vis Iran's role in Balochistan. I could be wrong though.