Are we in state of undeclared war?

[Arvind]

More to do with Modi-Nawaz nexus of evil. Both are ed buddies and use LOC troubles to mask their political problems.
Nawaz is in the gutter due to corruption cases, i am not sure whats up with Modi politically but he too must be hiding something by flaring up LOC.

I think we give politicians more than due credit for all of our fallacies. When did Nawaz got the authority on army and ISI even if we consider Modi hold the supreme authority?

If you are not suggesting that Nawaz simply dials in Modi, ask him to heat up the LOC and Modi oblige unconditionally. Thats a too much of a ask from a mere friend. Where is the quid pro quo?

 

[_Anonymous_]

I suppose a bakers' dozen is more or less the same as a dirty dozen. Oh well, nobody can say I didn't try.

Obliged . I'm too lazy and you're too insignificant for me to reciprocate . But you really must carry on the mantle of the venerable Kuldeep Nayyar now that Asma Jehangir is no more too. I can promise you I'd be there to offer you the 21 gun salute .

 

[Dagger]

Professionally of a batch of 125, I'm sure there are at least 5-10 guys (a couple of girls) with strong views.

An equal number (notably all non Hindu) with equally strong opposing views.

All on WhatsApp.

Professionally, face to face, people are understandably more guarded, though they do gravitate to like minded folk, and over lunch, even without eavesdropping, you pretty much can pigeonhole each table.

Been surprised to find some increasingly radical ideation and stances in the fauj. Guys I knew and smoked with in college. Who did not have a political bone in their bodies then.

My community - traditionally and historically very anti Muslim (a certain type of Muslim and the general ideology in general - nothing to do with our Indic bloodlines, poor guys) - I see a marked shift there. A sympathy. A feeling of injustice. And an increasing unease, given the swell of us Vs them, to the exclusion of all external (and even internal), and our numbers.

What else you want to know?

Cheers, Doc

Well. My whole zone is more interested with their vacations than anything else. I was talking about politics . I have heard even fewer talk religion or anti-islam.

I think its a wave of reaction all over the world now each resonating with the other. Trump, Le pen, AfD, Pvv et al. It is the great divider of our times probably. It will take some time to blow over .

 

[RATHORE]

I suppose a bakers' dozen is more or less the same as a dirty dozen. Oh well, nobody can say I didn't try.

I have a list too, it doesn't have a Dirty Dozen, just a Dirty old man. His name is Comrade Joe the Bonobo. Naam toh suna hi hoga...

 

[Superkaif]

More to do with Modi-Nawaz nexus of evil. Both are ed buddies and use LOC troubles to mask their political problems.
Nawaz is in the gutter due to corruption cases, i am not sure whats up with Modi politically but he too must be hiding something by flaring up LOC.

Let’s discuss our chicken - Nawaz Sharif isn’t in control of his bowels and your suggesting he has leverage over what the army is doing at the LOC? Be sensible bro.
I don’t think Modi is a reasonable comparison - he thinks best for his nation and is obsessed with promoting his nation. Nawaz Sharif is clearly the arsehole of the year - screwing his nation and it’s people lining his own pockets. Doesn’t really care about Kashmir or it’s people. Today lives are lost - tomorrow they become a statistic- sad and true yaar

 

[_Anonymous_]

I have a list too, it doesn't have a Dirty Dozen, just a Dirty old man. His name is Comrade Joe the Bonobo. Naam toh suna hi hoga...

He's a very sanskaari person . Especially when it comes down to admonishing others for perceived misbehaviour. Perceived by his own yardstick & extremely high moral standards . Our very own resident Alok NATH .

P.S - Suddenly , I'm feeling very sanskaari today .

 

[Bharath]

as long as we have "disputed territories" we are at a constant state of war albeit in a toned down mode. this is inclusive if BD as well as SL too (with BSF personnel getting attacked in the BD border areas, and no need to talk about Indian fishermen being harassed by SL).

Its an all out fight with respect to China and Pakistan. While Pakistan has a reason to poke India on Kashmir (Islamic terrorism, it has a head start on the issue with the UN resolution in 47 etc), I think pretty soon China will start needling us in AP as well as the Sikkim sector.

the border demarcation is absolutely necessary to finish these lingering embers, but its NOT going to happen any time soon since India is not weak against China to yield Sikkim/AP, and India is not that strong enough to get Pakistan out of Kashmir at the moment.

the NDA/BJP govt has certainly upped the ante and hence we are getting to listen more of the skirmishes. earlier these skirmishes were toned down with subdued replies from our end. one thing for sure that has helped us during these skrimishes:
we have successfully called Pakistan's bluff on them using TNWs.

our Army faces losses on human front, but it also gives us valuable experience in war like or skirmish level conflicts - which are looking to be the norm (an all out battle seems unlikely)

 

[Aravind]

It is all about timing. Unless a capacity and circumstances/environment is built up to deliver a decisive outcome in favor of India such as that of 1971, India will demonstrate patience for the right time. Pakistan will have to pay for its deeds, it will not go unpunished.

Remember, Indira Gandhi wanted to go all out in March or Summer of 1971, but General Manekshaw suggested it for the December time frame as the right one.

You don't wait for Environment to present a suitable scenario,you make it happen by seizing the initiative.

 

[Aravind]

What do the horoscopes of both India & Pakistan say for the next couple of years ? Is conflict inevitable ? If yes , what's our chances of winning ?

As per Vasthu Sastra India will always have attackers unless it expands it borders from the present boundaries, Make use of the Billion + Population, start expansion.

 

[Dagger]

As per Vasthu Sastra India will always have attackers unless it expands it borders from the present boundaries, Make use of the Billion + Population, start expansion.

I respect your nationalist (Indian) side.
But Lets not become the chinese please.
Maybe we can get away with doing a puja to and opening gates in different places?

 

[Bali78]

As per Vasthu Sastra India will always have attackers unless it expands it borders from the present boundaries, Make use of the Billion + Population, start expansion.

How about waiting for another 15 years? By that time some of our neighbors might want to merge with India without any war .

 

[Paro]

How about waiting for another 15 years? By that time some of our neighbors might want to merge with India without any war .

I prefer the expansion idea. Can’t wait for 15 yrs.life is too short.

 

[Aravind]

I respect your nationalist side.
But Lets not become the chinese please.
Maybe we can get away with doing a puja to and opening gates in different places?

LOL, i am being Pragmatic its not Nationalism, Look closely at Nature.
I would give you the example of Gir forest Lions, In Africa the Vast Savannahs make the African Lions have a bigger pride, different survival strategies and different strategies to hunt, in Gir Forest, The cramped up space, coupled with State of Gujarat providing Protection to the only surviving species of Asiatic Lion are soo Crammed for space, they have a pride of 1 or 2 Lionesses with Cubs, Some of these Lions expanded out of the National park area into civilian spaces.

Now ,in place of Lions , put people as a example, and see what does crammed spaces do to a population.
They have 2 options .
1)Get struck with disease,Natural calamity,War and die.
2)Start expanding out in search of new lands to claim as their own.

Where you see Nationalism, i see pure Logic and years of Evolution, Human Instinct.
Puja etc. is just for time being, you need to address the elephant in the room.
Population is a powerful resource if used well.
The chinese have a well scripted plan, all their population have to go through compulsory conscription of 6 months , that drills the ideas of Nationhood, Patriotism etc. into their heads, you can raise a army overnight if your Main army is decimated.

Our present Govt. is still following the disarmament policy of British, who made it criminal to carry or practise weapons or its training.That was to subjugate the population, why should such restrictions be applicable now ?

 

[Aravind]

How about waiting for another 15 years? By that time some of our neighbors might want to merge with India without any war .

Why wait?
A simple example, you see a girl you like, Do you keep waiting for her to come to you, or do you take the initiative first and get the 'First Movers advantage'
Things dont come and fall in your lap.
In Telugu there is a proverb " Akali ananide Amma kuda Annam pettadu" (Translated as "Even your Mother won't know if you are hungry, if you don't ask for it ")
Even a new born baby takes the initiative to cry for hunger only then they are fed.
Nothing comes without you taking steps to initiate your goals.

 

[Bali78]

Why wait?
A simple example, you see a girl you like, Do you keep waiting for her to come to you, or do you take the initiative first and get the 'First Movers advantage'
Things dont come and fall in your lap.
In Telugu there is a proverb " Akali ananide Amma kuda Annam pettadu" (Translated as "Even your Mother won't know if you are hungry, if you don't ask for it ")
Even a new born babies takes the initiative to cry for hunger only then they are fed.
Nothing comes without you taking steps to initiate your goals.

Bhai Saab, kuch to fark hey ladki aur desh mein .. BTW, ladki ke sat jabardasti karoge to jail jaoge . Same approach cannot be applied everywhere.

Sometimes the best way to woo a girl is by ignoring her .

 

[Dagger]

LOL, i am being Pragmatic its not Nationalism, Look closely at Nature.
I would give you the example of Gir forest Lions, In Africa the Vast Savannahs make the African Lions have a bigger pride, different survival strategies and different strategies to hunt, in Gir Forest, The cramped up space, coupled with State of Gujarat providing Protection to the only surviving species of Asiatic Lion are soo Crammed for space, they have a pride of 1 or 2 Lionesses with Cubs, Some of these Lions expanded out of the National park area into civilian spaces.

Now ,in place of Lions , put people as a example, and see what does crammed spaces do to a population.
They have 2 options .
1)Get struck with disease,Natural calamity,War and die.
2)Start expanding out in search of new lands to claim as their own.

Where you see Nationalism, i see pure Logic and years of Evolution, Human Instinct.
Puja etc. is just for time being, you need to address the elephant in the room.
Population is a powerful resource if used well.
The chinese have a well scripted plan, all their population have to go through compulsory conscription of 6 months , that drills the ideas of Nationhood, Patriotism etc. into their heads, you can raise a army overnight if your Main army is decimated.

Our present Govt. is still following the disarmament policy of British, who made it criminal to carry or practise weapons or its training.That was to subjugate the population, why should such restrictions be applicable now ?

We are social creatures, not territorial ones(most of us atleast).

A good population control policy seems a better idea. Our population is pretty manageable at present with no major outbreaks of crime. Plain old goodwill is better. Wars, though it is falsely advertised as running the american economy, ruins the institutions of a country. A perpetual war is an ideal breeding ground for dictators and criminals.

I agree that India should have instituted a military/social service programme. Would help to amalgamate the populace in my opinion. And gun training in gun ranges controlled by the military is a great idea. But Private gun ownership is a bad idea.

Ps. We are diverging from the topic at hand, methinks.

 

[Aravind]

Bhai Saab, kuch to fark hey ladki aur desh mein .. BTW, ladki ke sat jabardasti karoge to jail jaoge . Same approach cannot be applied everywhere.

Sometimes the best way to woo a girl is by ignoring her .

Well, i was just giving a mere examples in lay mans words, kaunsi ladki, ko kaise pataya jaayega, yeh thodi bol raha hoon,Generally speaking bhai, not advanced strategies.

Ab jab itne log honge ek hi jagah pe, toh expansion toh hona hi padega,ya phir sirf Bharat ke paas aise technology ho jis se Ocean floor ko terraform karke nayi bhoomi uppatti karein Indian ocean mein.

 

[Aravind]

We are social creatures, not territorial ones(most of us atleast).

A good population control policy seems a better idea. Our population is pretty manageable at present with no major outbreaks of crime. Plain old goodwill is better. Wars, though it is falsely advertised as running the american economy, ruins the institutions of a country. A perpetual war is an ideal breeding ground for dictators and criminals.

I agree that India should have instituted a military/social service programme. Would help to amalgamate the populace in my opinion. And gun training in gun ranges controlled by the military is a great idea. But Private gun ownership is a bad idea.

Ps. We are diverging from the topic at hand, methinks.

You make a mistake, "Every being on this planet is territorial in some way"
I believe only through conflict a superior product is made.
To make gold you filter it in-numerous times, heat ,reheat, remove the impurities, only then you get gold.

Bharat had strict rules of engagement and honor back in the times, we didnt see swordsmen trained going berserk in a public place,we had a code of conduct, ethics, respect, valor to be protected. Lack of these things mainly Dharma is what happens to shooting rampages in West.

You took away weapons from people who had a strict code of honor,rules of engagement and you are comparing them with Wild West? British wanted subjugation, they learnt a lesson after losing North America, the settlers kept weapons and they rebelled against British rule.

The Americans were their cousins, if they could rebel, then god forbid what will all these brown skinned Bharatis with weapons training would do to British?
You are still continuing the British colonial rules for weapons,practise etc.

We are not diverging from topic, this has to do with perception and a strong nation where everyone is a soldier will have strong perception in foreign relations ( in simple words, you dont fu*k with that country, you will get your a-r-s-e handed over if you did)
We had that perception that is why Alexander retreated and died,so did all attackers.
It was lack of this quality,character that brought about attacks, invasions or in the present topic shall i say, The Pakistani Army thinks it can get away with,

 

[Golden_Rule]

You don't wait for Environment to present a suitable scenario,you make it happen by seizing the initiative.

You haven't comprehended my statement "Unless a capacity and circumstances/environment is built up" - India has to do this.

 

[Golden_Rule]

What do the horoscopes of both India & Pakistan say for the next couple of years ? Is conflict inevitable ? If yes , what's our chances of winning ?

Whatever the horoscope of India and Pakistan says, evil Karma will get its energy returned to it. This is the principle of Universe. If you understand Mahabharata, none of the Kuru Yoddhas were defeated in a righteous manner by the Pandavas, instead they were paid back in the same coin of "Deception and Cunningness" they used against the Pandavas - by none other than Lord Krishna himself.

At the end of the war, when everyone proposed names for the supreme warrior (aka man of the series as people would understand today), there was no conclusion, so, all went to Barbareek (son of GhatothKatchh) whose head was kept on a hilltop watching the whole war from start till end, to ask for his opinion (computer umpire).

He said that whatever weapon was used from either side, he could only see "Sudarshan Chakra" of Vasudeva Krishna being used in every form of weapon used by both sides.

This is the essence of Universal Law of Karma - it stores what you contribute (transmit through your multiple personal radars) to the universal system of energy (Sudarshan Chakra) and it comes back to you after reflecting the object of your action/desire. However it is more sophisticated than just a transmit/reflect/receive system, instead it goes through a complex algorithm of when you will get it back and through whom (this is part of the Sanchit & Prarabdha Karmas and Jyotish Vidya - eyes of the Vedas to see the light - aka vibrations of past, present and future).

Sheer madness by killing, raping, pillaging, hating and looting for past 1400 years is for sure getting reversed. The first sign itself was evident in 1947 when (A-Brahma) Islam & Christian raiders were pushed back from India.