Eurofighter Typhoon - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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As per some latest reports, IAF is pushing for direct gov to gov deal for 90 Rafale via Make in India with TOT(with added clause of 36 more). I think it's a prudent approach. Let's see whether GOI bites the bullet or not(post elections, anyway!).
Wow, the Saudis are one of the most disruptive forces in Indian politics. This includes significant influence over terrorist groups and the Indian underworld. They have also been radicalizing the Indian Muslim population for decades.
It's an extremely unstable country, all these ME kingdoms are. They are all only safe until they are pumping oil. But once that's done with, these kingdoms will cease to exist due to economic problems and all the crazies will take over via revolutions or transformations. And when that time comes, an aircraft like the Rafale will still be militarily relevant, especially 'cause it's nuclear-ready, not the case with Typhoon and F-15.
Israel would like only themselves to have overmatched capabilities, no one else. They tolerate Egypt because of Turkey, and America's proximity to the Mediterranean. But the Saudis are not easy for them to deal with even with the Iranians around because Iran's main priority is Israel.
Oil prices will fall dramatically in the 2030s, the world can't afford to have unstable regimes with top-of-the-line weapons in mullah hands when that happens.
Furthermore, in the 2050s, the responsibility of policing this region, while keeping Russia and China out, will fall to India. So we should have some say in how the defense environment changes here. So, for that sake, we need the Saudis securely under the American thumb.
Pic has referred to opening a new Rafale line, if not India, we would prefer that to be in France rather than in Saudi. No one should go around industrializing well-known radicals in the ME. Why else do you think neither China nor Russia have offered high-end production to Iran? This is not about money.
@BMD
Yep, there's the Pak and China angle too.
The Saudis also fund Pak against India. And there's potential for industrial and tech transfers to both Pak and China, especially post-regime change.
The US has been supplying the Saudis with weapons and fighter jets for decades, so a Rafale wouldn't make much difference, it's still 4th gen.
Don't pretend India is completely clean either.
State-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia
You're all highly unstable from where I'm sitting. Mass riots/pogroms with thousands dead don't happen in stable countries.
You're again underestimating China if you think they need it. You consistently overestimate Russia and underestimate China.
It's the IAF that wants MRFA. If they have changed their minds, I don't know, but I find that unlikely.
A better option is to just add 36 more Rafales to the navy's 26 and proceed with MRFA. Dassault can then decide how much they wanna add to the production beyond an assembly line. By the time 62 jets are built, the MoD's budget would make a future decision for more Rafales easier with local production in place even if some other jet unexpectedly wins MRFA.
The US weapons are lame, let them keep doing that.
Don't pretend India is completely clean either.
State-sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
India is extremely clean. India trained rebels, not terrorists. When they became terrorists, India abandoned them and in exchange our PM was assassinated for trying to civilize them.
Indian Peace Keeping Force - Wikipedia
Assassination of Rajiv Gandhi - Wikipedia
Why did our attempts to end the violence fail? The US managed to convince the Sri Lankan govt that India was planning on conquering disputed territories, so the Lankans then started arming the LTTE to fight Indian troops. The Lankans bought the lie, and they have regretted it since.
Everything else concerning Pakistan is a lie.
Britain has far more valid separatist movements than India does.
India actually has none.
Then, I bet you think the US needs Su-27s.
USAF reveals ‘recent acquisition’ of Su-27 from Ukraine
The Soviet-era fighter arrived in the USA via a private acquisition around 2009 and was traded between several private operators before ending up in the hands of the Pentagon, which will now display the jet at the national air force museum.
www.flightglobal.com
It's about studying it for weaknesses. The same reason why Taiwan is not getting F-35s.
You mean the ones that Ukraine doesn't even have yet, but is still whooping Russia with?
So you fell out with your terrorists.India is extremely clean. India trained rebels, not terrorists. When they became terrorists, India abandoned them and in exchange our PM was assassinated for trying to civilize them.
Indian Peace Keeping Force - Wikipedia
Assassination of Rajiv Gandhi - Wikipedia
Why did our attempts to end the violence fail? The US managed to convince the Sri Lankan govt that India was planning on conquering disputed territories, so the Lankans then started arming the LTTE to fight Indian troops. The Lankans bought the lie, and they have regretted it since.
I don't trust either of you.
No, they just have pogroms that kill thousands.
Britain has far more valid separatist movements than India does.
India actually has none.
You've had a few separatist movements.
Separatist movements of India - Wikipedia
Britain's separatist movements just want a bigger handout, they're too f*cking lazy to actually fight anyone.
you must be having a amazing view from that rotten hole., huh. mass riots, pogroms ?
that is what is happening in UK with grooming gangs and ppl asking for sharia. you need to stop watching BBC and step onto the streets.
It doesn't matter. US weapons sold to the ME are outdated in comparison to the cutting-edge stuff they make. Rafale makes up for that difference. By next decade, the Rafale will come with semi-autonomous and fully autonomous drones, the US won't just sell such tech to the ME. So that works for us. But if the Saudis get Rafales, they will be at the cutting edge of aerospace too. Worse if they even get to manufacture all that. In comparison, both Typhoon and F-15 will be outdated 4th gen jets, so there's no need to create a false equivalence between old junk and the Rafale.
Saudi is fine today. So are the Emiraties, Kuwaitis etc, tiny populations, but not radicalized like the Saudis. But that's only until the kings are able to retain control. We speak of BEVs and FCEVs as the future, and that future doesn't see oil in it.
Because they became terrorists.
You can't even trust yourself.
The IRA made sure that wouldn't happen in Ireland. Lucky you.
You've had a few separatist movements.
Separatist movements of India - Wikipedia
Britain's separatist movements just want a bigger handout, they're too f*cking lazy to actually fight anyone.
Our separatist movements are foreign-funded. Your separatist movements are 'cause you lot suck and many of you agree with that sentiment. Brexit already showed that. It's not about fighting someone, it's about staying together and making it work.
Which Terrorist groups? Sources?
Agree, but Oil will be in demand for long time.
Disagree!
In 2050s, a lot of ME Countries will have a democratic political system.
Not sure, How China will be out from ME?
How much more radicals are they?
Reason could be profit making. This might change very soon.
Another possibility would be to take inspiration from the Indonesians, who ordered 42 Rafales but brought them into force (i.e. paid a deposit) in three instalments, in time to avoid a manufacturing disruption on the assembly line.
India could order 90 Rafales and bring 36 into force with a down payment of 15%, and three years later, instead of paying 85% for the Rafales, it would simply pay 100% for them and automatically bring an additional Rafale into force at the start of the assembly line. The last 36 would of course be paid 85%.
All of the ones from Pakistan. A lot of the radicalism found in Kashmir happened via Saudi funding, followed by Turkish funding.
Most of the world will be driving EVs in less than 15 years. So even if there's oil dependency, it's very likely that global demand will peak by the end of the decade. Once it starts falling, both revenue and quantity of oil exports will drop, prices will drop hence earnings. All these ME countries will have to start devaluing their currencies to survive. And considering their import-heavy natures, yep...
EVs. About 70% of the world's automobile marketshare will be EVs by 2035. And if H2 takes off, the remaining 30% consisting of heavy-duty trucks and the like will become EVs too. So we will have less ICE vehicles then than what's available today, so less oil consumption. Renewables will have taken over electricity production by then too.
Muslims creating a plural democratic system? The thing about democracy is, if there's no opposing force, then it will naturally decay into a far-left or far-right system. And an Islamic society typically moves right. Look at Turkey.
Islam doesn't allow moderates to have a voice 'cause it prefers violence over debate. That's why there's no such thing as a "good" Muslim with power, they typically end up as a bystander while radicals take over and the society goes into a downward spiral.
The only Muslim societies that do well are those under moderate leaders who practice authoritarianism like the ME kings, or when there's a powerful non-Muslim opposing force within society.
Due to proximity, the ME is within India's sphere of influence. The only question is how much violence we will be willing to unleash when necessary.
And due to the long-term potential of India, Indian Muslims will naturally become the most powerful Islamic population with the greatest voice.
Extremely radical. They believe only their doctrine of Wahhabism is true Islam and all others are enemies, including other Salafi schools. It's basically based on an 18th century interpretation of Islam and is extremely orthodox. That's why they are the only country that carry out beheadings for executions.
The Iranians and Saudis are both crazy people. Democracy doesn't work with either of them. They are also some of the least trustworthy people around. People think of the Saudis as sane 'cause of the ruling dispensation. MBS has also loosened some restrictions, like allowing women to drive and own property. But the Saudis still beat the Iranians at being orthodox, and that's saying something.
Iran is unlikely to get production tech, unless it's for something like the JF-17. They will have to develop their own.
We will get stuck with F4.2 though. Same story as the T-90S. The only way a new version will be accepted is if Dassault matches the price of the F4.2. That's what the Israelis did when upgrading Jaguar's offered radar from 2032 to 2052 AESA, they offered the new radar at the same price with a caveat that we stick the same radar into the LCA too. I find that's gonna be quite unlikely with F5.
The IAF wants MRFA via tendering because they want compartive trials of current tech and study the future roadmap of all the OEMs and choose the best jet with the least amount of hassle.
But all Rafales built today are pre-wired for F5 and can be upgraded simply by adding equipment and updating the software. An operation that can be carried out during routine maintenance operations in one or two days per aircraft.
They still have F-15s with AESA radar, which is more than Iran has. In fact they probably have more planes with AESA than India right now. By the next decade Saudi Arabia will likely have TF Kaans.
Oil is used for more than fuel and the Saudis also have an investment fund.
They were always terrorists and in supporting them, so were you.
Sure I can. You're only as trustworthy as your last lie, and the absolute BS India has spouted on the Ukraine War via their media has reset your trust bar to negative infinity cubed.
Not sure I get your meaning here. Even at the peak of the troubles, there were never thousands being killed, let alone tens of thousands. Compare the worst IRA bombing with the anti-Sikh riots in 1984 - 3entire orders of magnitude different.
The IRA was foreign funded. Not all your separatist movements are foreign funded, you do not need foreign funding to promote separatism when you have sectarian pogroms killing thousands every decade.
Those are criminals being silly, every country has criminality. And even with such provocation, authorities never turned a blind eye and encouraged people to burn Muslim neighbourhoods to the ground as they would have in India.you must be having a amazing view from that rotten hole., huh. mass riots, pogroms ?
Sales are sales. India and Britain don't get along at all, but we were still willing to sell you Typhoons.
It's a reflection of the mindset of government and population though.
Gujarat riots.
Pretty much everything these days. You call us Britshits and we were still willing to sell you a plane.
The people elected the government.
You've been keeping it in the hundreds lately, but based on cycles you're due another big one soon.