Yes, I know, it will remain impossible until the Americans try to do the same.
Eurofighter Typhoon - Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Ashwin
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The Su-57 is what happens when a child draws a stealth fighter. AMCA is pie beyond the sky. Hasn't even flown, isn't about to. Tejas is well, Tejas.
You are free to believe that.
Yes, I know, it will remain impossible until the Americans try to do the same.
Old story. If the Americans don't have it, then it doesn't exist.
Nah Saudis might become an interesting player. The gulf Arabs are way smarter than they appear. The non-arab Muslim states have this insecurity that the hejazi Arabs don't have. Same is true for qatar, Oman. These guys are puppetmasters not puppets.
Old story, non-stealth planes are not stealthy. And honestly, given how far the US is ahead on radar technology, what you said is pretty much accurate. Check out the US Navy thread:Old story. If the Americans don't have it, then it doesn't exist.
United States Navy (USN) : News & Discussions
https://x.com/CavasShips/status/1725407416118808883?s=20
Well, we think that if we don't have it, the Americans can't have it either, so your articles describing science fiction functions developed by the Americans are not evidence but just a bunch of lies.Old story, non-stealth planes are not stealthy. And honestly, given how far the US is ahead on radar technology, what you said is pretty much accurate. Check out the US Navy thread:
United States Navy (USN) : News & Discussions
https://x.com/CavasShips/status/1725407416118808883?s=20www.strategicfront.org
Old story, non-stealth planes are not stealthy. And honestly, given how far the US is ahead on radar technology, what you said is pretty much accurate. Check out the US Navy thread:
United States Navy (USN) : News & Discussions
https://x.com/CavasShips/status/1725407416118808883?s=20
That's just making a radar bigger than before. Nothing special. The stuff that the RMAs provide, IN has been operating since 2014 on the Kolkata class called MF-STAR and the IAF since 2011 via the EL/-2084, they are merely much smaller. These radars can be scaled up too, that's how you get most of the Israeli BMD radars. All the Americans have done is put them on ships.
The French Ministry of Defence's Joint Centre for Concepts, Doctrines and Experimentation has published a document describing the concept of Neutralising Enemy Air Defences.Old story. If the Americans don't have it, then it doesn't exist.
https://www.defense.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/cicde/20220722-CEIA-3.6.4_SEAD-VF.pdf
I translate a paragraph from page 11 of this document
National SEAD capabilities sought
11. To respond to this conceptual employment framework, France must be able to draw on operational capabilities currently in service, on armament programmes already underway or planned, and on upstream studies. The long-term objective could be to have the following capabilities:
a. Intelligence capabilities based mainly on electromagnetic and imaging sensors, deployed from aircraft or satellites and operated by a geospatial intelligence system. The latter must be compatible with "real-time" actions and incorporate mass data management and artificial intelligence functions. A "collaborative electronic surveillance" capability implemented on aircraft intended to operate in SEAD missions must complete this capability;
b. Highly responsive planned and accelerated targeting capabilities that can be implemented within different components;
c. Interoperable communications capabilities based on a collaborative network and associated data servers, interconnected with the collaborative combat networks of the other components, and relying on protected communications media (tactical data links, radio) and over-the-horizon links by satellite or compatible with high-intensity combat;
d. Air, land, cyber naval and space capabilities consisting of:
(1) Unitary air-to-ground weapons with autonomous terminal guidance: mainly medium-range weapons that can be dropped at very low altitude, as well as long-range, supersonic and manoeuvrable cruise missiles, or even hypersonic missiles,
(2) Air-to-ground saturation weapons, made up of several munitions operating in swarms, with a certain persistence and connected to the combat network to receive their target designation in free flight,
(3) Electronic radar jamming systems for aircraft exposed to the threat, improving their self-protection and integrating "collaborative electronic jamming" functions, coupled with upgraded infra-red decoy systems and supplemented by active electromagnetic decoys,
(4) Unitary offensive jammers dropped by an aircraft offering a stand-in jamming mode of action and possibly airborne offensive jammers operating as an escort and, possibly, electronic communications jamming systems,
(5) Space-based communications capabilities, by increasing both their performance and robustness, intelligence, by aiming for the earliest possible availability of data, and positioning, navigation and timing, by developing a sovereign capability,
(6) Surface capabilities, broadening the spectrum of SEAD modes of action: offensive electronic jamming systems on land and surface ships, indirect ground-to-ground fires or naval fire support, as well as deep action by special forces,
(7) Cyber offensive capabilities, capable of designing malicious software adapted to SEAD targets and constantly seeking to react quickly.
The French seem crazy enough to be looking for capabilities that @BMD says are impossible to achieve.
Everyone has a plan until they get a smack in the mouth. The US has a hypersonic tracking layer with fire control satellites in space right now, if such satellites can detect hypersonic missiles, they can certainly detect a slow and large Rafale and pass co-ordinates to opposing fighters. Other countries will have the same before long.
Wing stores will also reflect radar waves. Multi-static radars etc. You can't jam away a non-stealthy aircraft.
Everyone bigs up their own equipment and the French are certainly not known for their modesty, but at least US technology has offered some semblance of proven effectiveness overtime. Other parties like Russia have constantly talked up their invincible IADS and EW and we see that failing and/or getting destroyed regularly by US munitions. Then you have the size of the respective defence budgets to compare.Well, we think that if we don't have it, the Americans can't have it either, so your articles describing science fiction functions developed by the Americans are not evidence but just a bunch of lies.
Additionally, one should look at the fact that most developed nations are trying to develop stealth aircraft, including France, why so if you can simply jam away the discrepancy for less cost?? Then you have sales of F-35 and Rafale to compare - safe to say Rafale lost - even though marketing is the one area where Rafale have left all others for dead. So my statement seems reasonable based on the facts, whereas yours is wishful thinking.
When you say others will have the same before long, it means "others" are chasing the French. I fail to understand how this is a negative point.
If what I've pointed out in the F-35 thread becomes true, ie, F-35 B5 onwards getting the NGAD engine, then it's all those export customers who get screwed. You will have to reevaluate your definition of "marketing" then.
No, read what I wrote more clearly, the US has it.
Yeah yeah, what HAL FGFA doing?
Sukhoi/HAL FGFA - Wikipedia
The US is working towards it. They expect to have it after 2030, maybe 2035, hence the need for Wedgetails to act as a stopgap.
There was a program called Discoverer II, which entailed launching 24 satellites for a space-based radar capability, but was canceled. It has since been replaced by a program simply called SBR. It was probably replaced again.
Umbra selected to demonstrate space-based radar to track moving targets
The U.S. Air Force awarded Umbra a $1.25 million contract to demonstrate the capabilities of space-based radar sensors to track moving targets on the ground.
spacenews.com
Replacing the E-3 Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS)
www.everycrsreport.com
develop a low earth orbit satellite constellation to provide
GMTI and AMTI capabilities in the future.
So India and the US are working on what's probably the most expensive satellite ever built, the NISAR, costing $1.5B. It's also the first dual frequency radar satellite.
Powerful NASA-ISRO Earth Observing Satellite Coming Together in India – NASA-ISRO SAR Mission (NISAR)
Built on opposite sides of the planet, the NISAR satellite will deepen understanding of climate change, deforestation, glacier melt, volcanoes, earthquakes, and more.
nisar.jpl.nasa.gov
It could become the main template for the upcoming satellite constellation that will replace AWACS and JSTARS.
So your America-already-has-it argument is dead right off the bat. So things aren't what you are expecting, eh?
Are you trying to say we didn't get suckered like the F-35 partner nations? I can't wrap my head around the point you're making.
Instead of jumping on the bandwagon India has decided to wait and watch. Whether it's the Su-57, F-35 or NGAD, India will go for them if necessary only after the jets have achieved FOC. If the F-35A gets an AETP upgrade, then that's what will become the standard.
Anyway, going back to your original point, the French are extremely bad at marketing to civilians. I don't know how they market their wares to ministries, but civilians typically have very little idea what the heck they are talking about. Meaning, they don't make much attempts to dumb things down for the average joe. The Americans are champs at that.
Nah, you did get suckered. The F-35 nations got their aircraft, you spent money on a non-stealth turd project and ended up with nothing.
Read what you posted:The US is working towards it. They expect to have it after 2030, maybe 2035, hence the need for Wedgetails to act as a stopgap.
There was a program called Discoverer II, which entailed launching 24 satellites for a space-based radar capability, but was canceled. It has since been replaced by a program simply called SBR. It was probably replaced again.
Umbra selected to demonstrate space-based radar to track moving targets
The U.S. Air Force awarded Umbra a $1.25 million contract to demonstrate the capabilities of space-based radar sensors to track moving targets on the ground.
That's ground based, which was a lower priority than hypersonic airborne threats. They're currently fielding fire control satellites.
SDA's latest Tracking Layer contract includes 6 'fire control' sats - Breaking Defense
An SDA official explained that the six "preliminary fire control" satellites in Tracking Layer Tranche 2 will carry a mix of wide-field-of-view and medium-field-of-view infrared cameras.
India and France don't have anything like it in operation.So India and the US are working on what's probably the most expensive satellite ever built, the NISAR, costing $1.5B. It's also the first dual frequency radar satellite.
Powerful NASA-ISRO Earth Observing Satellite Coming Together in India – NASA-ISRO SAR Mission (NISAR)
Built on opposite sides of the planet, the NISAR satellite will deepen understanding of climate change, deforestation, glacier melt, volcanoes, earthquakes, and more.
It could become the main template for the upcoming satellite constellation that will replace AWACS and JSTARS.
So your America-already-has-it argument is dead right off the bat. So things aren't what you are expecting, eh?