France to spend €37 billion euros on upgrading nuclear arsenal

Vergennes

Vergennes

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Le-Drian-Parly-800x450.jpg

French Minister of the Armed Forces Florence Parly (R) and Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian (L) arrive at the Prime Minister's official residence before their meeting with Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in Tokyo, Japan, 26 January 2018. [Pool/EPA/EFE]

France is planning a €37-billion revamp of its nuclear arsenal over the next seven years, part of a sharp increase in defence spending aimed at allowing France to “hold its own” as a key power in Europe, the country’s defence chief said yesterday (8 February).

The upgrades to France’s land- and sea-based nuclear deterrent will be part of the nearly €300 billion to be spent by 2025.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...7-billion-euros-on-upgrading-nuclear-arsenal/
 
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The investments will see the developments of a new class of SSBNs of the third generation,the development of a new version of the M51 SLBM,called M51.3,and see the development of a new nuclear capable cruise missile to replace the ASMP/A.
 
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Vergennes said:
The investments will see the developments of a new class of SSBNs of the third generation,the development of a new version of the M51 SLBM,called M51.3,and see the development of a new nuclear capable cruise missile to replace the ASMP/A.
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Is that in Response to Britain's plans of developing new type of Submarines the Dreadnought?
 
No. You don't invest such sums just for competing with an ally on something that doesn't even have an export market. It's to prepare the replacement of the Triomphant-class. The Triumphant-class itself was worked on at about the same time the last of its own predecessor class was getting completed.

Nuclear submarines are a domain of technologies where you have very few civilian uses. Without orders from the state, the companies that build them do not have any work to do on such things, so they will lose the know-how that is specifically unique to nuclear submarines. Experienced employees change jobs or retire, new employees are not trained in niche skills, and so on. If you want to keep this institutional knowledge, you've got to keep them working on nuke subs non-stop, which France does by alternating between SSN (most recently, the Barracuda-class) and SSBN.
 
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A Person said:
No. You don't invest such sums just for competing with an ally on something that doesn't even have an export market. It's to prepare the replacement of the Triomphant-class. The Triumphant-class itself was worked on at about the same time the last of its own predecessor class was getting completed.

Nuclear submarines are a domain of technologies where you have very few civilian uses. Without orders from the state, the companies that build them do not have any work to do on such things, so they will lose the know-how that is specifically unique to nuclear submarines. Experienced employees change jobs or retire, new employees are not trained in niche skills, and so on. If you want to keep this institutional knowledge, you've got to keep them working on nuke subs non-stop, which France does by alternating between SSN (most recently, the Barracuda-class) and SSBN.
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Under current Geopolitical conditions,SSBN is unwanted gimmick.
Who is going to Nuke France to oblivion?
UK needs SSBN as its a very small country and cannot keep Nuclear deterrent on land.
By Comparison France is a large country and can keep Nuclear deterrent on remote mountainous areas.
SSBN was appropriate when USSR was there with 15000 Megatons of Nuclear weapons and could Destroy multiple countries completely.
With USSR gone and world nuclear stockpiles reduced to less than 10k Megatons almost no country of the world needs to worry about total annihilation except North Korea by the hands of Stupid Dotard Trump.
I know about Britain, just 4 SSBn costs 2 Billion GBP annually in running and maintenance costs.
We have more potholes on the roads of Britain now than Pakistan, even on Motorways. Government has no money to spend on education, social housing. There are more homeless and penniless Brits than ever before.The national health service is in shambles and the 2 Billion GBP per year can be well spent elsewhere specially when UK has no nuclear enemies anymore.
France can also spend the money elsewhere while keeping the Nukes on Land.
 
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safriz said:
Under current Geopolitical conditions,SSBN is unwanted gimmick.
Who is going to Nuke France to oblivion?
UK needs SSBN as its a very small country and cannot keep Nuclear deterrent on land.
By Comparison France is a large country and can keep Nuclear deterrent on remote mountainous areas.
SSBN was appropriate when USSR was there with 15000 Megatons of Nuclear weapons and could Destroy multiple countries completely.
With USSR gone and world nuclear stockpiles reduced to less than 10k Megatons almost no country of the world needs to worry about total annihilation except North Korea by the hands of Stupid Dotard Trump.
I know about Britain, just 4 SSBn costs 2 Billion GBP annually in running and maintenance costs.
We have more potholes on the roads of Britain now that Pakistan, even on Motorways. The national health service is in shambles and the 2 Billion GBP per year can be well spent elsewhere specially when UK has no nuclear enemies anymore.
France can also spend the money elsewhere while keeping the Nukes on Land.
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With eyes in space, and other sources we get to know the most locations on land.

That's where SSBNs come to use. There's literally no way to find them and neutralise all of them simultaneously.
 
safriz said:
Under current Geopolitical conditions,SSBN is unwanted gimmick.
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That's not the opinion of the French chiefs of staff. Russia is threatening European countries again, the stability of Pakistan is questionable, North Korea is developing ICBMs...

Geopolitical conditions can change quite a bit faster than you can reacquire the skills needed to design and build SSBN. French policy isn't just to look at the cost to maintain a capacity, but to compare it with the cost to reacquire it if it were lost.

I'll remind you that the primary use of nuclear weapon systems is to not be used. That's what deterrence means. You could always argue that you don't need them at all since, if they work, you aren't ever going to use them. And indeed, most countries decide not to bother.

safriz said:
UK needs SSBN as its a very small country and cannot keep Nuclear deterrent on land.
By Comparison France is a large country and can keep Nuclear deterrent on remote mountainous areas.
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France is merely a bit over twice as large as the UK. It's not really a difference of orders of magnitude. Not when the standard for "large country" is defined by countries such as Russia, Canada, China, the USA, Brazil, Australia, or India.

France used to have a land component (a full nuclear triad) but got rid of it. Static positions just invite counterforce first strikes. The point of boomers is that they could be anywhere in the deep seas, so even if you destroy the entire country, there'll be at least one out there who'll be able to seek revenge.
 
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Vergennes said:
Le-Drian-Parly-800x450.jpg

French Minister of the Armed Forces Florence Parly (R) and Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian (L) arrive at the Prime Minister's official residence before their meeting with Japan's Prime Minister Shinzo Abe in Tokyo, Japan, 26 January 2018. [Pool/EPA/EFE]

France is planning a €37-billion revamp of its nuclear arsenal over the next seven years, part of a sharp increase in defence spending aimed at allowing France to “hold its own” as a key power in Europe, the country’s defence chief said yesterday (8 February).

The upgrades to France’s land- and sea-based nuclear deterrent will be part of the nearly €300 billion to be spent by 2025.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/po...7-billion-euros-on-upgrading-nuclear-arsenal/
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Its a good move. Among all the European nations, France has a really good diplomatic and military. France is an ally with US, a member if EU and NATO but still keeps the complete military industry indigenous and free from beaurocratic clutches of EU. Thats a really resilient way to nation-craft. Indeed France is preparing for the worst.
 
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A Person said:
That's not the opinion of the French chiefs of staff. Russia is threatening European countries again, the stability of Pakistan is questionable, North Korea is developing ICBMs...

Geopolitical conditions can change quite a bit faster than you can reacquire the skills needed to design and build SSBN. French policy isn't just to look at the cost to maintain a capacity, but to compare it with the cost to reacquire it if it were lost.

I'll remind you that the primary use of nuclear weapon systems is to not be used. That's what deterrence means. You could always argue that you don't need them at all since, if they work, you aren't ever going to use them. And indeed, most countries decide not to bother.


France is merely a bit over twice as large as the UK. It's not really a difference of orders of magnitude. Not when the standard for "large country" is defined by countries such as Russia, Canada, China, the USA, Brazil, Australia, or India.

France used to have a land component (a full nuclear triad) but got rid of it. Static positions just invite counterforce first strikes. The point of boomers is that they could be anywhere in the deep seas, so even if you destroy the entire country, there'll be at least one out there who'll be able to seek revenge.
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There is no bomb that can destroy entire city or country. Cities and countries have withstood level 5 cyclones and the blast wave of such cyclone is over 10000 Megatons. Nuclear bomb is a point source which means in the immediate vicinity of 300m of a 1MT bomb, the destruction will be massive but destruction reduces drastically as distance increases. Moreover, nuclear bombs can't bust the underground silos and bunkers.

SSBN is a flawed concept. The communication to SSBN is also a difficult matter. Who will instruct SSBN to strike if the land base is destroyed? How should a submarine underwater know what is happening outside?
 
@Kshithij Sharma I invite you to read this ;

If Emmanuel Macron was to push the button ...

As in all countries with nuclear weapons, the French procedures for launching a strike are very precise and redundant.

1. The use of nuclear weapons is possible if the vital interests of France are attained and "under extreme circumstances of self-defense" *. This may be an aggression by another State against the national territory, but not only: in the case of terrorist attacks or cyber attacks, in extreme forms and if a third State is identified as responsible, France would not prohibit itself a nuclear response.

2. The President of the Republic shall meet in the Jupiter room,the Elysée nuclear HQ, his defense council, including the Prime Minister, the Minister of Defense and military officials. The Head of State alone decides the nature of the fire: single or multiple, explosion at high altitude or not, and defines the target (s).

3. The military chain transmits the targeting, via secret encryption, to the weapons carried by the Rafale and Mirage 2000 aircraft, and by the nuclear launching submarines. Apart from the commander of the ship, no one knows its exact position, not even the head of state. The commander, for his part, does not know the targets.

4. The firing order is transmitted through specialized and redundant networks. The army has in particular very low frequency radio stations (TBF) and the Syderec* emergency system,deploying wire antennas using captive balloons to communicate with the strategic oceanic SSBNs in the event of destruction of stationary communications installations.

http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/si-em...puyer-sur-le-bouton-16-09-2017-2157505_23.php
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
French Defence Procurement Agency 🇫🇷
@DGA
[#Evaluation firing ☢️] #ASMPA renovated
Successful 1st force evaluation firing of the upgraded strategic air-to-ground medium-range missile #ASMPA_R
This unloaded missile ☢️ was fired by a Strategic Air Force #Rafale during a flight representative of a raid ☢️
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I don't think that France, for that matter UK too will not push the button without uncle sam's permission. And i do beleive that US will never grant you two guys for it, instead US will do that job for you people.
@BMD
 
If there were performances announced, they would be far below reality, which is the way the French handle performance announcements:
  • when a programme is launched, minimum performance levels are required
  • Manufacturers respond with performance above this minimum, but with a safety margin, because if the performance turns out to be below what is promised, the manufacturer does not get paid.
  • When development is complete, performance is measured and classified.
For example, for the SCALP, our President Hollande revealed in a book that the range was 560 km, which caused a scandal because before that we used to say "more than 300 km".
 
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