IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi

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randomradio said:
You are not reading properly. Conventional = Regular weapons. Not NBC weapons. So tanks, aircraft, guns etc.
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I am reading it correctly and do understand what is a conventional.

randomradio said:
We can completely dominate their armed forces. But why should we lose Mumbai in the process?
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That is the point. If India is under the perennial insecurity of losing Mumbai or Delhi then your phrase "Complete Domination" in conventional forces means nada. Insecured people with fancy toys do not win the wars. Look no further than GCC.

randomradio said:
The worst mistake any country makes. Our history is replete with such mistakes.
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I would like to know what is the value of $10 billion dollar RAFALEs or $15 Billion dollar SU-30MKIs or $6 Billion dollar Scorpenes.

There is nothing but white elephants meant to satisfy the egos of public like us.

randomradio said:
Pakistan's internal problems. There is no reason for India to fix their problems. They can fight each other as much as they want.
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Good luck with that. We were lucky with Bangladesh. Won't get a second chance.
 
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Tech upgrade: US kicks off procedure to release drones to IAF

Tech upgrade: US kicks off procedure to release drones to IAF

The US government has commenced its internal process to release armed Avenger (formerly Predator C) drones to the Indian Air Force.

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@Aashish If India gets Armed Drones then Definitely F 16s are also Coming

It is Quid Pro Quo
 
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STEPHEN COHEN said:
Tech upgrade: US kicks off procedure to release drones to IAF

Tech upgrade: US kicks off procedure to release drones to IAF

The US government has commenced its internal process to release armed Avenger (formerly Predator C) drones to the Indian Air Force.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Aashish If India gets Armed Drones then Definitely F 16s are also Coming

It is Quid Pro Quo
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This has been going on for sometime. First, let USA clear the sea guardian unarmed surveillance drone.
 
screambowl said:
They are holding your claimed territory and you say no such thing. Wake up!
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Actually thats a funny thing. We went to UN regarding that. We made what otherwise would have been a military operation into a legal quagmire. They took advantage of it and now the situation remains as status quo. We simply changed the rules of engagement when we involved UNSC and now we have been trying to back-paddle on it by claiming it to be a bi-lateral issue. BTW, altogether Indian government and beaurcracy is a hell lot of 'nice folks'. They want to do everything as per process. Heck we are yet not able to assimilate Kashmir in India because of a stupid technicality. Kashmiri separatists are using our own paralysis of due process and legislation to keep on harping on special status and ultimately freedom on Kashmir.
 
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Shajida Khan said:
Actually thats a funny thing. We went to UN regarding that. We made what otherwise would have been a military operation into a legal quagmire. They took advantage of it and now the situation remains as status quo. We simply changed the rules of engagement when we involved UNSC and now we have been trying to back-paddle on it by claiming it to be a bi-lateral issue. BTW, altogether Indian government and beaurcracy is a hell lot of 'nice folks'. They want to do everything as per process. Heck we are yet not able to assimilate Kashmir in India because of a stupid technicality. Kashmiri separatists are using our own paralysis of due process and legislation to keep on harping on special status and ultimately freedom on Kashmir.
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Perfectly summed up.
 
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dadeechi said:
Russia reneged on the cryogenic engine deal with India under pressure from US

France reneged on the Mistral deal with Russia under pressure from the US

Israel dropped the from SAAB Gripen offer to India under pressure from US

Will France do a Mistral on India under pressure in the future?
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You are wrong about Mistral : we canceled the deal after the russian invasion of crimea. We don't care about US pressure.
We are always ready to do something for our european ally : see exocet electronic leaks during falklands battle, or these mistral deal.
 
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Hellfire said:
Lol we all knew that. Is he reading us?

Now where ard shortfalls coming in from? Air support @Aashish @randomradio ... 2 sqn Su 30 additionally, 2 sqn Rafale. So we see F-16 binned?
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If we ignore all the Mig-21s and 27s, we will only have 35.5 squadrons operational in 2025. This includes 2 new MKI squads, 2 Rafale squads and 6 LCA squads. Then we will lose a total of 5 squads of Mig-29 and Jags by 2030. Which means we will be down to 30.5 squads in 2030 if we don't order any more.

So we need to order 11.5 squads of new aircraft over the next 5 years apart from the 2 MKI, 2 Rafale and 6 LCA squads. Not counting attrition.
 
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dadeechi said:
I am reading it correctly and do understand what is a conventional.



That is the point. If India is under the perennial insecurity of losing Mumbai or Delhi then your phrase "Complete Domination" in conventional forces means nada. Insecured people with fancy toys do not win the wars. Look no further than GCC.



I would like to know what what is the value of $10 billion dollar RAFALEs or $15 Billion dollar SU-30MKIs or $6 Billion dollar Scorpenes.

There is not but white elephants meant to satisfy the egos of public like us.



Good luck with that. We were lucky with Bangladesh. Won't get a second chance.
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So what you are suggesting is we should simply shut down our military?
 
randomradio said:
If we ignore all the Mig-21s and 27s, we will only have 35.5 squadrons operational in 2025. This includes 2 new MKI squads, 2 Rafale squads and 6 LCA squads. Then we will lose a total of 5 squads of Mig-29 and Jags by 2030. Which means we will be down to 30.5 squads in 2030 if we don't order any more.

So we need to order 11.5 squads of new aircraft over the next 5 years apart from the 2 MKI, 2 Rafale and 6 LCA squads. Not counting attrition.
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That is around 200 planes and definitely possible over next 13 yrs. My gut feeling is, the current government is not going to increase defense budget till 2019, since expenditure for infrastructure and other populist schemes will have higher priority. If NDA comes back to power, then definitely defense budget will go up. If UPA comes back to power, then only god can save Indian armed forces!!
 
Bali78 said:
That is around 200 planes and definitely possible over next 13 yrs. My gut feeling is, the current government is not going to increase defense budget till 2019, since expenditure for infrastructure and other populist schemes will have higher priority. If NDA comes back to power, then definitely defense budget will go up. If UPA comes back to power, then only god can save Indian armed forces!!
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Yep, we've ordered 200 aircraft, we need to work out a plan to induct 200 more.
 
_Anonymous_ said:
What about the UCAV and the drones ? Don't they count in for anything much in terms of sheer nos making up squadrons ? particularly the UCAV .
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IAF is interested in 30 squadrons of both armed and unarmed drones, apart from 42 squadrons of manned fighter jets. Anyway, most of the armed drones will be useless against either Pak or China without air superiority. They will be more useful during peacetime and over areas like Afghanistan. The IUSAV may be different.

There's also attack helicopters which will take over a significant portion of the CAS role from fighters.
 
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Hellfire said:
Cant like and mark as funny together @Aashish
GoI is on that track .... no war in future. Recall modi's statement.
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I am not a war monger. On the contrary I am advocating that Indians should shut their mouths, keep their heads down and work to making Indian economy great again.

This big of talk of 56" chest and complete conventional domination over Pakistan while situation on the ground demonstrates otherwise is making Indians laughing stock of the world.

Pakistan will keep playing this game of thousand cuts and India needs to keep building the muscle (military) and blood (economy) fast enough to make those cuts pin pricks. Let our actions speak rather than our false bravado.
 
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dadeechi said:
I am not a war monger. On the contrary I am advocating that Indians should shut their mouths, keep their heads down and work to making Indian economy great again.

This big of talk of 56" chest and complete conventional domination over Pakistan while situation on the ground demonstrates otherwise is making Indians laughing stock of the world.

Pakistan will keep playing this game of thousand cuts and India needs to keep building the muscle (military) and blood (economy) fast enough to make those cuts pin pricks. Let our actions speak rather than our false bravado.
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We can either wage war or invite one. Waging war is a function of will and equipment but mostly will. If your don't want to wage war there will be no war.
Another way of having war is by inviting one. Being militarily weak and investing any and everything in economy is an open invitation to resolve differences in opponents favour by inviting war.
Security and necessary muscle building is necessary to have a peaceful border and for that you need long term planning and analysis of worst case scenario involving war.
If someone tasked with guarding borders and protecting vital national interests does exactly that, and offers an opinion about current status of military might wrt to the opponent, it doesn't mean he is a war monger.

To imply other wise suggests dishonesty on your part or worse still, incompetence to understand the very basics of nation building.
 
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Bon Plan said:
You are wrong about Mistral : we canceled the deal after the russian invasion of crimea. We don't care about US pressure.
We are always ready to do something for our european ally : see exocet electronic leaks during falklands battle, or these mistral deal.
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Thanks! for being candid. So India should expect and be prepared for

1) Cancellation of RAFALE spares if Government of India (GoI) takes actions against Dutch NGOs in India

2) Leaking of Radar signature if GoI takes action against Khalistan Sikh and Kashmiri terrorists operated from UK

3) Renege on offsets should GoI decide to have a diplomatic mission in Turkey to the disliking of Germany

4) Restrict Transfer of Technology if GoI has issue with Italy on marines standing trial for killing Indian fishermen


France has fallen from grace and no longer follows the independent foreign policy of the erstwhile era. Where is USP of RAFALEs which were touted to be better than Eurofighter as GoI needs to deal with only one country instead of 4 countries?


Having said this I fully support RAFALEs and RAFALE deal. It is best of the worst options that India has.

I just wanted to highlight the fact that RAFALE is neither the silver bullet nor the panacea to the troubles that India is facing.
 
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