India gets access to French bases in Indian and southern Pacific oceans

[Levina]

France and India on Saturday sealed a maritime cooperation agreement which would allow the Indian Navy ships to use France’s naval facilities in the Indian Ocean and the southern Pacific Ocean.

The provision of reciprocal logistics support between their Armed Forces was among 14 agreements signed between France and India during the three-day state visit of French President Emmanuel Macron in New Delhi.

A former commander with the Indian Navy, Abhijit Singh, hailed the agreement as a “great move forward that would allow India to expand its footprint not just in the Indian Ocean region, but also across the entire Indo-Pacific.

“This agreement with France will send a message to China that we are preparing to expand our own presence in our own backyard, which is the Indian Ocean, as well as near the South China Sea, which is considered as China’s sphere of influence,” Singh, now a maritime expert at New Delhi-based think tank Observer Researcher Foundation (ORF) said.

“France and India now have an understanding that they will be acting in tandem in the Indian Ocean and the Pacific,” he added.

While France is the biggest maritime power in the Indian Ocean, with bases in Reunion and Mayotte, it also has a considerable presence in the southern Pacific Ocean, with bases in French Polynesia and New Caledonia.

France has been at the forefront of freedom of navigation exercises in the South China Sea, near southern Pacific, and had offered to coordinate the navies of the European Union in 2015.

While France is the biggest maritime power in the Indian Ocean, with bases in Reunion and Mayotte, it also has a considerable presence in the southern Pacific Ocean, with bases in French Polynesia and New Caledonia.
The French naval vessels have been operating in the South China Sea for years, having stepped up their engagement with Asia-Pacific powers since China started asserting itself in the South China Sea.


In recent years, the French Navy has carried out joint drills with Australian warships and Vietnamese defence personnel in November 2015. French ships also regularly engage with the Japanese Navy. China has maritime disputes with all its neighbours in the South China Sea, over which Beijing claims complete sovereignty.

The logistics sharing agreement between France and India also entails trilateral naval exercises, with Australia as the third participant.

Besides France, India has similar logistics sharing agreements with the US, Singapore and most recently, Oman.

France and India have also signed agreements on countering illicit drug trade, migration, technical cooperation in Railways, urban development, protecting classified information, nuclear cooperation, urban development, space exploration and education.

India gets access to French bases in Indian and southern Pacific oceans

@Aashish @Asura @Ashwin @Bali78 @Dagger @Harry @Vicky @Paro @nair @Avi @Shashank @Himanshu Pandey @Nilgiri @Bharath @BlackOpsIndia @kaykay @Superkaif
@Shajida Khan @Abingdonboy and everyone else.


Btw I overheard that India-France-US-Japan along with a country from GCC are planning some thing big.
Anyone aware of it?

 

[Shashank]

One point I would need clarity for this deal is regarding validity of this deal during Wartime. Will these bases be available to India During Wartime as well? If yes its going to be a game changer For peacetime only use this wont help much.

 

[Grevion]

“This agreement with France will send a message to China that we are preparing to expand our own presence in our own backyard, which is the Indian Ocean, as well as near the South China Sea, which is considered as China’s sphere of influence,” Singh, now a maritime expert at New Delhi-based think tank Observer Researcher Foundation (ORF) said.

India having access to French Reunion island and our upcoming bases in Seychelles's Assumption islands will help us counter China's string of pearls and provide us with a strategic base not very far off from the middle eastern sea route and China's Djibouti base. The geographical significance of this move is unparalleled. @Arpit

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Good thing we are moving towards tier 2 Powers. With Japan, France, Germany, UAE, Israel we can take collective initiative. There is a sense of equality and respect.


With tier 1 powers like US, China or even Russia we just become a player, they take initiative and we have to support them becoming almost a yes man and always worried about hidden intentions. Even in technological field we are treated as pushover , however with these nations we always create something good. We already have a helicopter engine with France which is best in class and now we build our own after JV. I think the same will happen with Kaveri.

 

[Srinivas]

Good thing we are moving towards tier 2 Powers. With Japan, France, Germany, UAE, Israel we can take collective initiative. There is a sense of equality and respect.

What is tier 1 or tier 2 powers?
France has got UNSC seat and can veto any move by USA and China, soon India will also get this privilege.

With tier 1 powers like US, China or even Russia we just become a player, they take initiative and we have to support them becoming almost a yes man and always worried about hidden intentions.

A yes man in the international areana is a nation who is economically and strategically dependent on other nations. Who works for other nations interests leaving its own agenda.
Is India acting like that?

Even in technological field we are treated as pushover , however with these nations we always create something good. We already have a helicopter engine with France which is best in class and now we build our own after JV. I think the same will happen with Kaveri.

I agree with this point. But things are changing and the change is for the good of India. India is poised to project its power from Suez canal to Straits of Malacca. India is moving towards become an undisputed power in this Region.

 

[Aashish]

View attachment 2045
India having access to French Reunion island and our upcoming bases in Seychelles's Assumption islands will help us counter China's string of pearls and provide us with a strategic base not very far off from the middle eastern sea route and China's Djibouti base. The geographical significance of this move is unparalleled. @Arpit

@Arpit
Looks like our long lost discussion is bearing fruit. We need a CBG moving in those waters with lots of ships, subs and flying assets. A squad of guardian drones, Do228 assets and couple of P8I could be a force multiplier.

Next should be eastern side... Singapore port was just a start.. need further east,,,

Once done our own chain will be awesome...

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

What is tier 1 or tier 2 powers?
France has got UNSC seat and can veto any move by USA and China, soon India will also get this privilege.



A yes man in the international areana is a nation who is economically and strategically dependent on other nations. Who works for other nations interests leaving its own agenda.
Is India acting like that?



I agree with this point. But things are changing and the change is for the good of India. India is poised to project its power from Suez canal to Straits of Malacca. India is moving towards become an undisputed power in this Region.

There is no standard classification of tier 1 or tier 2, I used the term to indicate the difference and India is not getting veto anytime soon.


Ofcourse India act like one, not all the time but few times and you don't need to be economically weaker or strategically dependent on others to be a yes man. One of the UNSC permanent member is a water boy of US (Britain).


I think we need to stay in tier 2 league, we are just not ready for tier 1 yet. We definitely wish to project power everywhere but we are just too far away to dominate even neighbourhood. Tiny Maldive and Nepal are showing eyes and we are helpless due to whatever reason. Even 10 times economically bigger China is treated like a junior associate by Russia sometimes so there is no shame in punching just about your weight.



Unless we cross $7 Trillion mark we are not ready to join the big boys club. If we try to, like today, we will only end up being humiliated.If you noticed whenever there is peak in India and US relations we always end up giving something, be it stopping agricultural exports to Korea or Climate deal. What US give in return is promise to be tough on Pakistan and ToT for something and after few days we learn US approved few billion aid to Pakistan or killed some very big enemy for them and ToT has become joke now. Its ridiculous and embarrassing, if you are power act like one, if you can't, you are not a power, though there is no problem in dreaming, even Pakistan consider itself a great power.

 

[zinswinsin]

India will never get a UNSC seat.

Part of the UNSC is no one wants more members as it dilutes their power. Beyond that 0 chance China allows it. Long term I doubt Russia wants it.

 

[Paro]

India will never get a UNSC seat.

Part of the UNSC is no one wants more members as it dilutes their power. Beyond that 0 chance China allows it. Long term I doubt Russia wants it.

Either we are gonna sit on it or piss all around it. Next decade is going to be pretty interesting.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

Don't worry either we are gonna sit on it or piss all around it. Next decade is going to be pretty interesting.

Changes in UNSC can be forced only after world war 3 if any if we are looking for short term decade or two. It will reset world order and powers like britain will be substituted and more players will be added.

If there is nothing like that then changes in UNSC will take very very strong India that our boycott or showing complete disregard to UNSC resolutions actually have serious impact. We may have to destroy a country to rubles and kill civilians on massive scale (hundreds of thousand), only that time we will be regarded "Strong" enough for UNSC seat. No matter how unfortunate or twisted this logic is, that's the only way world listens.

 

[A Person]

Might be worth to relink to this from 2015: https://www.rsis.edu.sg/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/PR150312_French-Strategy.pdf

India will never get a UNSC seat.

Part of the UNSC is no one wants more members as it dilutes their power. Beyond that 0 chance China allows it. Long term I doubt Russia wants it.

There are 15 seats in the UNSC, and India has sat there often, most recently in 2011-2012. But you mean permanent seat.

There are two things that the P5 have: permanent seat and veto power. While the P5 are officially open to extending the number of permanent seats, they are much less fond of giving veto power to newcomers. India understands this, however, and has offered to decouple both issues.

Personally, I would back membership for India and Brazil, but I'm less sold on Japan, and I'd rather not see Germany. Based on the idea that the UN are supposed to represent the entire world, India's sheer population size (nearly 1/5th of total world population) means that it can't be set aside. Brazil is the largest country in Latin America by population, land area, and economy, and therefore the best potential representative for a continent that does not have permanent membership yet.

Japan and Germany, on the other hand, are from continents that are already represented, and more importantly they do not really have an independent voice of their own. Both are US puppets, their territories full of US military bases. They are both incapable of having a foreign policy opposed to that of the USA, so what purpose would it serve to give them permanent seats? You could as well just give two additional seats to the USA.
Furthermore, and for Germany specifically, this country is also a member of the European Union, like France. Its geopolitical interests are therefore already served through France by way of the Union.
I'd rather see an eight permanent seat going to an African country since that continent is also absent from the permanent security council, but the problem here is that I don't know which African country could fit that role. Perhaps instead of a country, give the seat to the African Union as a whole?

 

[Bharath]

What exactly is the nature of evolving relationship between France and China? With China's OBOR initiative that has a train running from China to the UK has part of the run in France. in effect, France is a willing partner in that initiative.

 

[RATHORE]

@Arpit
Looks like our long lost discussion is bearing fruit. We need a CBG moving in those waters with lots of ships, subs and flying assets. A squad of guardian drones, Do228 assets and couple of P8I could be a force multiplier.

Next should be eastern side... Singapore port was just a start.. need further east,,,

Once done our own chain will be awesome...

Agree with everything, on your point about needing something further East of Singapore; I once read an article by Bharat Karnad claiming that Vietnam may have offered us a base at Nha Trang in the past and for whatever reason we didn't follow through/we dithered.

Is there any chit-chat/possibility of that offer being on the table again, or of us seeking such a deal with the Vietnamese? If not right now, do you see this as something that is possible in the future?

 

[RATHORE]

Don't worry either we are gonna sit on it or piss all around it. Next decade is going to be pretty interesting.

I have long maintained that the UNSC in its current form, with some of its current members, will never let us in. The only option is to work to make it irrelevant.

 

[Bali78]

What exactly is the nature of evolving relationship between France and China? With China's OBOR initiative that has a train running from China to the UK has part of the run in France. in effect, France is a willing partner in that initiative.

Who is not involved with China? Japan and US are the biggest investors in China and China is the largest American debt holder.

All these posturing are nothing but arm twisting methods to extract concessions from China. I hope Indian diplomats are smart enough not to allow India to be used as a tool in this game !!

 

[Proud_Indian]

Pakistanis don't seem to be very amused with the development though

 

[Bharath]

Who is not involved with China? Japan and US are the biggest investors in China and China is the largest American debt holder.

All these posturing are nothing but arm twisting methods to extract concessions from China. I hope Indian diplomats are smart enough not to allow India to be used as a tool in this game !!

"who is not involved with China"
in that respect we are involved with China as well - with our trade growing leaps and bounds. but that is no longer politically relevant - no country will be North Korea type "shut down" from the world.

I get very jittery when I do not see obvious requirements from all sides. Symbiosis means two or more entities derive strength from each other.

India needs french tech, what does France need from India?

 

[Bali78]

"who is not involved with China"
in that respect we are involved with China as well - with our trade growing leaps and bounds. but that is no longer politically relevant - no country will be North Korea type "shut down" from the world.

I get very jittery when I do not see obvious requirements from all sides. Symbiosis means two or more entities derive strength from each other.

India needs french tech, what does France need from India?

Exactly. I didn't mention about our trade with China, because it's well known. It's actually politically quite relevant. The $85 billion trade plays the role of biggest deterrent against war, between India and China.

France needs India just like every other industrialized country. They need our market of 1.2 billion people and they simply can't afford to miss.

But whether they will actually share some real cutting edge defense tech or stand by us against China in case of war, is questionable.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Let me ask who gets benefited more from this Deal? India or France?

 

[Proud_Indian]

Let me ask who gets benefited more from this Deal? India or France?

What's your opinion sir? If we judge by how pissed the pakistanis are in the video I posted above, We've got a good deal.