India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

[Shajida Khan]

ab ye kyaa syaapa hai bade log kindly explain...

Its quite simple. Electronic decoys don't generate smoke trails and neither give off pilots when shot. Lies damn lies and Pakistani's thoughts. Plus R-73 are not exactly "Out of Visual Range" weapons.... Pilot can also see the targets... Not to mention, R-73 is not exactly radar guided but IR guided.

 

[Star Wars]

Why the press conference now????

Could be 2 reasons....

1) Wanted to counter the recent reports of F16 count by US....

2) Wanted to keep the ball rolling....

In the first case US officials have denied any attempt or effort to count the F16s.....

Point number 2, this wasn't even a proper press conference. Looked more like a written statement of what ever proof was given to the journalists. For some reason, govt. wants to continue this narrative.

 

[nair]

Point number 2, this wasn't even a proper press conference. Looked more like a written statement of what ever proof was given to the journalists. For some reason, govt. wants to continue this narrative.

Last time when they shown the same to selected journos there was not much impact... so they wanted to make it public... One thing is very sure..... 1 F16 gone down.... lie factory not gonna keep quiet..... they will bring some new story.... unless uncle Sam ask them to shut up

 

[Guynextdoor]

Did the IAF PC just say that Abhinandan Chased 3 F 16s? THREE ????

Can't be....won't his (brass) balls would be too heavy to let the aircraft remain airborne....

 

[HighWest]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1115233907887230976

ab ye kyaa syaapa hai bade log kindly explain...

He deserves the ‘Hila Le Imtiaz’ award

 

[Guynextdoor]

Last time when they shown the same to selected journos there was not much impact... so they wanted to make it public... One thing is very sure..... 1 F16 gone down.... lie factory not gonna keep quiet..... they will bring some new story.... unless uncle Sam ask them to shut up

they'll share the atual computer data with US not just the screenshots we have seen. This is nailed.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Read the last sentence carefully, that was my personal opinion.

IAF have constantly stuck to its guns, Can you please quote me the IAF or GOVT. statement where it claimed further proofs would NOT be provided? Showing all your cards on 27nth wo0uld have been a stupid decision. What IAF, Govt. doing right now is enough. IF we have to win a narrative like Pakistan, we would have to behave like Pakistan and brutally shut down all internal opposition and dissent. Are we willing to that ?

So IAF never released any evidence earlier and is releasing some of it now. They never said they'd not release any evidence nor did they confirm they would ever release it. Have I got this right?

There are plenty of liberal democracies engaged in a life and death struggles with Nations who are police states for want of a better word. Do they all indulge in information blackouts? The example of Israel & the US is before you. Do they indulge in the kind of strip tease like the IAF does, by releasing tidbits of evidence every now and then in reaction to someone denying a kill?

 

[nair]

He deserves the ‘Hila Le Imtiaz’ award

He tagged our own @Sancho in his tweet...

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

If the IAF doesn't give a rats *censored*, it should have stuck to it's guns & maintained what they've saying all along. We took down an F-16 but we don't want to release any evidence. Believe it for we're saying so. Why go through the charade now?

There is no fun in winning outright, unless a win is converted into a loss by lies we don't wake up, exact same was done with Surgical strike and same thing will be done with Balakote too.

 

[Ashwathama]

So IAF never released any evidence earlier and is releasing some of it now. They never said they'd not release any evidence nor did they confirm they would ever release it. Have I got this right?

There are plenty of liberal democracies engaged in a life and death struggles with Nations who are police states for want of a better word. Do they all indulge in information blackouts? The example of Israel & the US is before you. Do they indulge in the kind of strip tease like the IAF does, by releasing tidbits of evidence every now and then in reaction to someone denying a kill?

Because our information warfare skills are very poor. America and Israel are very good at this. And so is Pakistan with its ispr. Even Gen Ata Hasnain said so in one of his tweets. That's why info management was botched and we got stuck in a rock and a hard place. But steps have been taken so something like this doesn't happen again. Positions have been created dedicated to information warfare.

 

[Star Wars]

So IAF never released any evidence earlier and is releasing some of it now. They never said they'd not release any evidence nor did they confirm they would ever release it. Have I got this right?

Do you really not understand me or are you pretending not to understand me ? Is it possible to convince someone who deliberately misinterprets a statement just to win an argument ?

There are plenty of liberal democracies engaged in a life and death struggles with Nations who are police states for want of a better word. Do they all indulge in information blackouts? The example of Israel & the US is before you. Do they indulge in the kind of strip tease like the IAF does, by releasing tidbits of evidence every now and then in reaction to someone denying a kill?

All these states don't have to deal with a retarded entity called Pakistan. Kindly tell me another country like Pakistan. Which two other countries out there really match India and Pakistan in its Rivalry ? There is absolutely no comparison anywhere else, India's situation is unique and cannot in anyway be compared to other liberal democracies. What is it that you want ? Do you want to win the narrative war or did you just want to release everything on day one irrespective of how Pakistan counters ? Why are some of you people so obsessed with blaming IAF instead of PAF ? You want to win the narrative war, whine and complain about the narrative, yet nonstop question the IAF in everything other than questioning the PAF.

In a void and completely reactive, oozing with self righteousness

This comment you made earlier is more applicable to members here who think they know better than the Air Chief and diplomats and other govt. servents with decades of experiences.

 

[nair]

Because our information warfare skills are very poor. America and Israel are very good at this. And so is Pakistan with its ispr. Even Gen Ata Hasnain said so in one of his tweets. That's why info management was botched and we got stuck in a rock and a hard place. But steps have been taken so something like this doesn't happen again. Positions have been created dedicated to information warfare.

GOI has taken this point seriously..... and are working on this..... Glad that we can work with them once they start ..... Parallel efforts across forums and Twitter and fb pages will slowly be streamlined.....

You can see how ppl are taking baba.... That's a trailer..... Picture abhi bhaki hein

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1115233907887230976

ab ye kyaa syaapa hai bade log kindly explain...

He is a big fool, muted that clown weeks ago. There were two aircrafts that went down that morning, two different videos with completely different characteristics are available with one of them showing two ejection. That was uploaded within few minutes by normal people, corroborate it with every possible statment of India or facts or videos from Pakistan and nowhere it shows even a slightest of doubt, I have tried real hard to find a single doubtful thing in those videos but there isn't any. This is corroborated further by AWACS data and ISPR own blunders and even people on ground.

Let that fool live in his own world.

I have seen that video here on this forum in which the F-16 is going down and a vapour tarils forms just above and behind it and after that Mig-21 disappears.

This is the video of Mig21 sir I suppose and another F16 turning after getting a shot.

Strangely I just checked the original video of two pilots ejection is made private! Anyway it's seeded by others. In this video 2 ejections are seen and narrated but no trail like the 1st video so this can't be Mig but F16, even the jet going down in flames is seen clearly.

A request to people please keep track of videos and download them too, Pakistanis are rattled and deleting videos, this is the only copy I was able to find (there may be others as well but can't find yet). Also a request to @Ashwin and @nair to allow direct video uploads so that we can save the important data for long without loss of other side deleting it.

 

[Star Wars]

There is no fun in winning outright, unless a win is converted into a loss by lies we don't wake up, exact same was done with Surgical strike and same thing will be done with Balakote too.

The fact that you underestimate your own country and overestimate Pakistan is your own Problem. So many here have such low self esteem towards their own country. They always have to find blame.


I apologise, but the truth is there is no satisfying you people. If IAF had released all evidence on 27nth , you would have blamed them then. If no evidence, you would have blamed them. IF given in small batches, they would have been blamed.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Do you really not understand me or are you pretending not to understand me ? Is it possible to convince someone who deliberately misinterprets a statement just to win an argument ?

Instead of splitting hair, why don't you clarify your point.

All these states don't have to deal with a retarded entity called Pakistan. Kindly tell me another country like Pakistan. Which two other countries out there really match India and Pakistan in its Rivalry ? There is absolutely no comparison anywhere else, India's situation is unique and cannot in anyway be compared to other liberal democracies. What is it that you want ? Do you want to win the narrative war or did you just want to release everything on day one irrespective of how Pakistan counters ? Why are some of you people so obsessed with blaming IAF instead of PAF ? You want to win the narrative war, whine and complain about the narrative, yet nonstop question the IAF in everything other than questioning the PAF.

What about North & South Korea or PRC and RoC? Check out their interactions over the past 7 decades and you'd see striking parallels. It's no surprise that both NK & Pakistan are bosom buddies of China - the godfather of such information warfare.

There are two issues at the forefront here. One is winning the war and the other winning the battle of perceptions. By not retaliating in kind immediately after the PAF air strikes of 27/2, we let the narrative slip out of our hands. To compound our folly, the IAF was lackadaisical about winning the information war too. They let things adrift and are now trying to salvage the situation.

Now to use a phrase from your own book. Is this too hard to understand? Or are you pretending not to understand? Or are you claiming the monopoly over interpretation of all events since Balakote.

 

[BlackOpsIndia]

The fact that you underestimate your own country and overestimate Pakistan is your own Problem. So many here have such low self esteem towards their own country. They always have to find blame.


I apologise, but the truth is there is no satisfying you people. If IAF had released all evidence on 27nth , you would have blamed them then. If no evidence, you would have blamed them. IF given in small batches, they would have been blamed.

Instead doing your research on me why don't you find some productive work to do? Sometimes you question my intentions, sometime measure my self esteem and what not. I have been ignoring your silly comments on me again and again. I already told you I am agent of Pakistan, ab ukhad lo jo ukhadna hai.

 

[_Anonymous_]

This comment you made earlier is more applicable to members here who think they know better than the Air Chief and diplomats and other govt. servents with decades of experiences.

The same all knowing Chiefs of Staff and their political masters have yet to make public the Henderson Brooks Report of the Sino Indian War of 1962. The same all knowing grandees have yet to release a report on the IPKF operations in Sri Lanka. The same people have yet to answer for how in spite of repeated intelligence reports and assessments that Pakistan was planning to take over the peaks in Kargil & Drass sector, why did we pull out our troops during the winter especially when we had the example of Siachen a decade ago where we pre empted the Pakistanis from occupying that glacier.

 

[Shajida Khan]

What about North & South Korea or PRC and RoC? Check out their interactions over the past 7 decades and you'd see striking parallels. It's no surprise that both NK & Pakistan are bosom buddies of China - the godfather of such information warfare.

There are two issues at the forefront here. One is winning the war and the other winning the battle of perceptions. By not retaliating in kind immediately after the PAF air strikes of 27/2, we let the narrative slip out of our hands. To compound our folly, the IAF was lackadaisical about winning the information war too. They let things adrift and are now trying to salvage the situation.

Now to use a phrase from your own book. Is this too hard to understand? Or are you pretending not to understand? Or are you claiming the monopoly over interpretation of all events since Balakote.

As much as I have seen, this entire information war is overrated, overhyped, worthless and stupid to boot. Just ask yourself, who is this information war is targeting? Indians? Only 10% of Indians can read/write and speak English. Foreigners? They don't give a damn.

So who are these mythical people against whom Pakistan is fighting this war?

 

[Star Wars]

What about North & South Korea or PRC and RoC? Check out their interactions over the past 7 decades and you'd see striking parallels. It's no surprise that both NK & Pakistan are bosom buddies of China - the godfather of such information warfare.

North Korea is an international Pariah, North does not send terrorists and suicide bombers to South Korea. North Korea was not backed by the United states despite them supporting terrorism. Huge difference there. There is no parallel, what so ever. I would much prefer North Korea as a neighbour other than Pakistan.

There are two issues at the forefront here. One is winning the war and the other winning the battle of perceptions. By not retaliating in kind immediately after the PAF air strikes of 27/2, we let the narrative slip out of our hands. To compound our folly, the IAF was lackadaisical about winning the information war too. They let things adrift and are now trying to salvage the situation.

I have said this earlier, once you win a decisive war, perception becomes irrelevant. Yes, temporarily you might be able to convince otherwise. But once the war is lost, there is no way to spin this as won war. 65, 71 , 99. Pakistanis still believe they won those wars. What does the world believe ? Even in 1971 they tried to pull the same stunt with their Mirages to claim they did not loose any. None of it helped. Pakistanis tried their best to spin themselves as being the victim of terror. IT did not help then as well.

Narrative is only useful when you are trying to handle much more complex issues, like Kashmir, Indus water treaty, Pakistan based terrorism. To influence the world opinion. 1 year down the line, nobody is going to care who shot down the F-16 or the Mig-21. They will only care on how the war ended and what its result was.

Now to use a phrase from your own book. Is this too hard to understand? Or are you pretending not to understand? Or are you claiming the monopoly over interpretation of all events since Balakote.

When Copy pasting that sentence, I am hoping you at least took the time to read and understand it.

 

[Jaymax]

Guys if you are waiting for Pakistan to get it notarized that we shot down their F-16 it will not happen. Can we just dump this already?

Enough proofs have been given. ACM Dhanoa has quoted Bob Dylan, IAF has released radar screenshots. Why are we still busting our heads on it.