India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

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Cole_phelps said:
It's not so cut and dried to rescind. Why would Jammu and Ladakh go back under thumb of valley again?
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It cannot be. Even if Congress magically comes back to power with 400+ seats it cannot put back old JnK and 370.

M/S Modi and Co. executed a well planned op and managed to pull off something no one would have thought 2 years ago.

These are all dramas done for calming down their people. Everyone knows this is a done deal. Even Pakistan is now tiring out. The world is bored to death of Imran's rhetoric and its only a matter of time before people yawn at his speeches on the world stage.
 
Ginvincible said:
There is actually a few really good read ups on how the US dropped the ball in getting OBL during the Battle of Tora Bora in 2001. Its a mildly popular conspiracy that the battle was orchestrated in a way to intentionally let OBL get away so they could continue and expand the 'War on Terror' into other nations but the consequences were very far reaching. It might be one of the greatest failures made early on and a direct cause for the high civilian causalities over the next decade in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Imagine how the timeline would have changed if OBL was killed in 2001.

@Sulla84 ; @Arsalan123
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Why would they kill OBL??? War on terror was a great excuse to set up bases in Afghanistan. Why do u think Americans dont go after Taliban controllers i.e Pakistan??? Cz as long as Taliban is present in Afghanistan , US will cite this as a reason to maintain their bases.
Bases in Afghanistan gives Americans the power to control both Russia and Chinas moves westward and also influence Central Asian states which are under Russian influence.
 
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Ginvincible said:
There is actually a few really good read ups on how the US dropped the ball in getting OBL during the Battle of Tora Bora in 2001. Its a mildly popular conspiracy that the battle was orchestrated in a way to intentionally let OBL get away so they could continue and expand the 'War on Terror' into other nations but the consequences were very far reaching. It might be one of the greatest failures made early on and a direct cause for the high civilian causalities over the next decade in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Imagine how the timeline would have changed if OBL was killed in 2001.

@Sulla84 ; @Arsalan123
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US had plans to invade Iraq, Libya and Iran right after the collapse of the Soviet union. Afghanistan was always a distraction, the real target of the neocons was always Iraq. They had to sate Americans blood lust after WTC attack, so they went and carpet bombed Afghanistan.
But, Pakistan was never a Bali ka bakra. It was more than eager to host Osama, Zawahiri, Hamza and other assorted jihadis... Also, the premise for invading Iraq was Weapons of mass destruction, war on terror was secondary justification.
 
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Deathstar said:
Bases in Afghanistan gives Americans the power to control both Russia and Chinas moves westward and also influence Central Asian states which are under Russian influence.
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The American presence in Afghanistan is more of a liability. China or Russia can just chew the limited number of American soldiers and spit their bones out in times of war. Iran too views their bases as juicy targets, which would come in handy to increase US body count in times of war.
We don't need to think in a convoluted manner. The real reason for America, to tolerate Pakistani support for the taliban is the tyranny of logistics in Afghanistan. Both Iran and Russia are US rivals. The northern corridor only supplies non military stuff, since the central Asian states are under heavy Russian influence. The US would rather abandon Afghanistan than seek Iranian supply routes. The road and the air corridor through Pakistan is still the cheapest way. If the US would have been friends with Russia or Iran, Pakistan would have fallen in line a long time ago.
 
Deathstar said:
Why would they kill OBL??? War on terror was a great excuse to set up bases in Afghanistan. Why do u think Americans dont go after Taliban controllers i.e Pakistan??? Cz as long as Taliban is present in Afghanistan , US will cite this as a reason to maintain their bases.
Bases in Afghanistan gives Americans the power to control both Russia and Chinas moves westward and also influence Central Asian states which are under Russian influence.
Click to expand...


Sulla84 said:
US had plans to invade Iraq, Libya and Iran right after the collapse of the Soviet union. Afghanistan was always a distraction, the real target of the neocons was always Iraq. They had to sate Americans blood lust after WTC attack, so they went and carpet bombed Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

I personally agree with both of you. There were many competing interests in DC at the time, there were people who wanted influence in Central Asia to cement a position between old and emerging rivals. There were people interested in oil fields and controlling resources. There were religiously motivated peoples who believed they were beckoning some Armageddon. The people in charge at the time had no desire to see OBL killed off so soon, it would end the WoT and the blank check they had to invade anywhere they wanted. It was the perfect recipe composed of a huge desire for justice, corruption, and near unlimited resources.

Sulla84 said:
But, Pakistan was never a Bali ka bakra. It was more than eager to host Osama, Zawahiri, Hamza and other assorted jihadis... Also, the premise for invading Iraq was Weapons of mass destruction, war on terror was secondary justification.
Click to expand...

WMD was the primary justification because they were making the claim that Iraq had links to Al-Qaeda and was thus an international sponsor of terrorism who could not be allowed to develop/posses WMDs. It's funny how that turned out too, because they used Abu Musab al-Zarqawi as the link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda. This gave him notoriety and he was instrumental in the rise of AQI and eventually ISIS.

If you guys ever get the time to read that Senate report I linked earlier you should. It does its best to dance around specific accusations with passages like:

Furthermore, local U.S. allies were just not up to the job in Tora
Bora. Pakistan deployed about 4,000 regular army forces along the
border itself. But they were not always fully committed to the mission,
and there were too few well-equipped troops to prevent al Qaeda and
Taliban fighters from outflanking them, as many hundreds of enemy
personnel appear to have done. Afghan opposition forces were also less
than fully committed, and they were not very proficient in fighting at
night.
Click to expand...
 
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Ginvincible said:
There is actually a few really good read ups on how the US dropped the ball in getting OBL during the Battle of Tora Bora in 2001. Its a mildly popular conspiracy that the battle was orchestrated in a way to intentionally let OBL get away so they could continue and expand the 'War on Terror' into other nations but the consequences were very far reaching. It might be one of the greatest failures made early on and a direct cause for the high civilian causalities over the next decade in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Imagine how the timeline would have changed if OBL was killed in 2001.

@Sulla84 ; @Arsalan123
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i agree.it was the most terrible thing happened to pakistan.it was a shock to the international community.we are in this position because of america and we still want f-16.it's so terrible.
 
american intention was to stay longer in afghanistan but now trump wants exit.cia don't want to leave afghanistan.cia controls many countries from afghanistan like pakistan,iran,china and russia.presence of american troops and cia is not good for pakistani interest specially for china pak friendship.i think iran also want exit of america.china and india both are fast growing economies and russia is an old enemy of america.to tackle china and pakistan,america wanted an ally and india is now an ally.having relations with both russia and america is not easy for india but you guys are doing great.i think s-400 was the only problem but now america allows it.indian policy doesn't care about others,it cares about it's own interest and that is a very good policy.
 
Let us go to warrrrrrr :cool:

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