Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

Toast of 'Make in India' but production line for Vajra artillery guns to run dry this year

By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau | Last Updated: Feb 07, 2020, 09.01 AM IST
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LUCKNOW: It is the toast of India’s largest defence show, as an example of how the domestic manufacturing sector is performing, but the production line for the K9 Vajra artillery guns may run dry within six months as the order book exhausts, forcing a possible mothballing of the facility.

The ‘Vajra’, a 155 mm howitzer ordered by the Indian Army in 2017 after a global competition that was won by Larsen & Toubro, is a central attraction at the show that has seen participation from more than 70 nations.

L&T said the order for 100 guns — valued at Rs 4,500 crore — would be completed within six months and its manufacturing facility at Hazira, Gujarat, would be idle after that. A top executive said appeals had been made to the defence ministry for additional orders. Options to export the system are also being explored, he added.

“We have pleaded for additional orders and we hope something will happen. We are awaiting a repeat order for the guns. We will be without work soon and may have to shift people to other facilities,” L&T board member JD Patil told ET.

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The Indian company is looking at options to keep the production line functioning by pursuing work share agreements with public sector units, and will also actively look at options for exporting the artillery gun to friendly nations.

“Wherever there is a requirement to operate in desert conditions and in an NBC (nuclear, biological and chemical) environment, we can offer the Indian made Vajra that has been extensively tested by the Indian Army,” the senior executive said.

While the K9 is also manufactured by South Korea’s Hanwha which is L&T’s partner in the project, the India-specific gun has been enhanced to meet the needs of the army for desert warfare. This could open up possibilities for exports to Asian and African countries.

The Vajra has an interesting history to it — the gun was offered to the army in competition with major global players that did not technically require a major Make in India component (or contract was given to L&T and the tender didn’t require major Make in India component). However, L&T choose to offer it as an India-made product and has already achieved over 52% indigenisation by cost price.

When it comes to exports, the Indian company can also offer its experience of developing a domestic production line to third nations seeking to replicate the model.

More than 50 of the guns have been delivered and have proven their performance in acceptance trails by the Indian Army. Defence minister Rajnath Singh visited the Hazira facility last month to flag off the 51st gun to be delivered.

The ‘shoot and scoot’ gun will be deployed along the western border to take on a Pakistani battlefield edge in mobile artillery. In 2009, Pakistan had acquired 115 of the M 109A5 cannons, given by the US as a “reward” for its assistance on the war on the Afghanistan border.

Toast of 'Make in India' but production line for Vajra artillery guns to run dry this year
 
Bharat Forge's Mounted Gun System :
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You have to give it to the BEML folks. OFB makes MGS, its mounted on the BEML Tatra trucks. Now the BFL is using the same truck. No matter who wins the trials BEML has already won. The facelift of the truck was also probably done by the BFL.
 
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Another zoo in the making. Our procurement process is going in million different directions.
GCF to award production of ATHOS gun in collaboration with Israel

GCF to award production of ATHOS gun in collaboration with Israel


The Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) has obtained order from Ministry of Defence for production of 1,180 Autonomous Towed Howitzer Ordnance System (ATHOS).

Will eat up into the orders of DRDO ATAGS.
Has this been cleared by ccs ?
https://www.armyrecognition.com/apr...thos_2052_155mm_howitzers_to_indian_army.html

So, where is bharat forge in all this? It was supposed to be the partner for elbit. Also, as per this 2019 report only 400 guns would be ATHOS and rest 1180 would be ATAGS.. Now the report you quoted says all the guns would be ATHOS...
Where does this leave ATAGS..? Is there any other source confirming this?
 
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Has this been cleared by ccs ?
Elbit-Bharat Forge to supply Athos 2052 155mm howitzers to Indian Army | April 2019 Global Defense Security army news industry | Defense Security global news industry army 2019 | Archive News year

So, where is bharat forge in all this? It was supposed to be the partner for elbit. Also, as per this 2019 report only 400 guns would be ATHOS and rest 1180 would be ATAGS.. Now the report you quoted says all the guns would be ATHOS...
Where does this leave ATAGS..? Is there any other source confirming this?
bad reporting.
 
Despite indigenous guns’ success, country plans imports from Israel

Despite the recent success of indigenously made artillery guns, the process of acquiring some 1,580 pieces from a foreign supplier is progressing and is now at the stage of cost negotiation.

According to sources, so far there is no indication to have locally made guns to fill in the numbers for which negotiation is on. “Cost negotiation is on get 400 pieces from Elbit of Israel in a ready-to-use condition and the remaining 1,180 will be assembled here in India by the foreign supplier in a partnership with Indian partner Bharat Forge,” the source said.

1,180 pieces to be assembled in India

  • According to sources, cost negotiation is on get 400 pieces from Elbit of Israel in a ready-to-use condition and the remaining 1,180 will be assembled here in India by the foreign supplier in a partnership with Indian partner Bharat Forge. So far there is no discussion on restricting foreign supplies to a particular number and then filing in gaps by making more of the indigenous Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System or the Dhanush.
So far there is no discussion on restricting foreign supplies to a particular number and then filing in gaps by making more of the indigenous Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) and the Dhanush.

The ATAGS is undergoing user trials — a nomenclature for Army trying out the weapon. It is developed by the DRDO in partnership with Tata Power SED and Bharat Forge. The Defence Acquisition Council has okayed 150 ATAGS, but a contract is yet to be signed.

The Dhanush, a gun made by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), is already being inducted in phases. A total of 114 pieces are on order.

The induction of ‘Sharang’ upgraded artillery pieces has commenced at the just concluded def-expo. A total of 300 of the 130 mm guns of Soviet parentage are being up-gunned to 155 mm by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB). The entire lot will be supplied by 2022.

India has some 1,000 of the 130 mm M-46 artillery guns. Around 180 guns were upgraded by Israeli firm Soltam in 2008.

The Army’s Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan, drawn in 1999, is aimed at acquiring 2,800-3,000 155 mm/52-calibre guns of all kinds and 155 mm/39-calibre lightweight howitzers by 2027.

The projection includes 814 truck-mounted guns, 1,580 towed guns, 100 tracked self-propelled guns, 180 wheeled self-propelled guns and 145 ultra-light howitzers.

Elbit Systems has won a bid to ATHOS (Autonomous Towed Howitzer Ordnance System) 2052 to the Indian Army, in a deal that could go up to Rs 9,000- 10,000 crore.

The DRDO is pushing to increase local production over import.
 
Despite indigenous guns’ success, country plans imports from Israel

Despite the recent success of indigenously made artillery guns, the process of acquiring some 1,580 pieces from a foreign supplier is progressing and is now at the stage of cost negotiation.

According to sources, so far there is no indication to have locally made guns to fill in the numbers for which negotiation is on. “Cost negotiation is on get 400 pieces from Elbit of Israel in a ready-to-use condition and the remaining 1,180 will be assembled here in India by the foreign supplier in a partnership with Indian partner Bharat Forge,” the source said.

1,180 pieces to be assembled in India

  • According to sources, cost negotiation is on get 400 pieces from Elbit of Israel in a ready-to-use condition and the remaining 1,180 will be assembled here in India by the foreign supplier in a partnership with Indian partner Bharat Forge. So far there is no discussion on restricting foreign supplies to a particular number and then filing in gaps by making more of the indigenous Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System or the Dhanush.
So far there is no discussion on restricting foreign supplies to a particular number and then filing in gaps by making more of the indigenous Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) and the Dhanush.

The ATAGS is undergoing user trials — a nomenclature for Army trying out the weapon. It is developed by the DRDO in partnership with Tata Power SED and Bharat Forge. The Defence Acquisition Council has okayed 150 ATAGS, but a contract is yet to be signed.

The Dhanush, a gun made by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), is already being inducted in phases. A total of 114 pieces are on order.

The induction of ‘Sharang’ upgraded artillery pieces has commenced at the just concluded def-expo. A total of 300 of the 130 mm guns of Soviet parentage are being up-gunned to 155 mm by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB). The entire lot will be supplied by 2022.

India has some 1,000 of the 130 mm M-46 artillery guns. Around 180 guns were upgraded by Israeli firm Soltam in 2008.

The Army’s Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan, drawn in 1999, is aimed at acquiring 2,800-3,000 155 mm/52-calibre guns of all kinds and 155 mm/39-calibre lightweight howitzers by 2027.

The projection includes 814 truck-mounted guns, 1,580 towed guns, 100 tracked self-propelled guns, 180 wheeled self-propelled guns and 145 ultra-light howitzers.

Elbit Systems has won a bid to ATHOS (Autonomous Towed Howitzer Ordnance System) 2052 to the Indian Army, in a deal that could go up to Rs 9,000- 10,000 crore.

The DRDO is pushing to increase local production over import.
If Athos comes , i will lose all hope in indigenous weapons and forever hate the corrupt babus , politicians , generals and dalals.
We will always have a foreign import maal lover tag
 
If Athos comes , i will lose all hope in indigenous weapons and forever hate the corrupt babus , politicians , generals and dalals.
We will always have a foreign import maal lover tag

I have been saying this from many days. Sooner or later all of you will realize that gen marshals jt. and add secretaries to ministers sab dalle hai , 1.5 lakh to 10 crore is their rate and they are in not 10s or 20's but thousands. West knows how to lure these scumbags.

This is why Modi wanted to fire all of them and bring fresh blood but that backfired, some hoe he managed to retire few hundreds of officers. At least more than fifty thousand government servants in India are corrupt. It requires mass scale cleaning. Should do it in 2023 or 2024 or if wins then 2025.
 
No point in following defence related news if these are the state of affairs .apart from high blood pressure and frustration you wont get anything else.
Desi system barring few will only get token orders if they somehow manages to pass the test,rest the army would ensure never crosses prototype phase.
In general mass scale manufacturing of indian owned IP is a myth.
 
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Despite indigenous guns’ success, country plans imports from Israel

Despite the recent success of indigenously made artillery guns, the process of acquiring some 1,580 pieces from a foreign supplier is progressing and is now at the stage of cost negotiation.

According to sources, so far there is no indication to have locally made guns to fill in the numbers for which negotiation is on. “Cost negotiation is on get 400 pieces from Elbit of Israel in a ready-to-use condition and the remaining 1,180 will be assembled here in India by the foreign supplier in a partnership with Indian partner Bharat Forge,” the source said.

1,180 pieces to be assembled in India

  • According to sources, cost negotiation is on get 400 pieces from Elbit of Israel in a ready-to-use condition and the remaining 1,180 will be assembled here in India by the foreign supplier in a partnership with Indian partner Bharat Forge. So far there is no discussion on restricting foreign supplies to a particular number and then filing in gaps by making more of the indigenous Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System or the Dhanush.
So far there is no discussion on restricting foreign supplies to a particular number and then filing in gaps by making more of the indigenous Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) and the Dhanush.

The ATAGS is undergoing user trials — a nomenclature for Army trying out the weapon. It is developed by the DRDO in partnership with Tata Power SED and Bharat Forge. The Defence Acquisition Council has okayed 150 ATAGS, but a contract is yet to be signed.

The Dhanush, a gun made by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), is already being inducted in phases. A total of 114 pieces are on order.

The induction of ‘Sharang’ upgraded artillery pieces has commenced at the just concluded def-expo. A total of 300 of the 130 mm guns of Soviet parentage are being up-gunned to 155 mm by the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB). The entire lot will be supplied by 2022.

India has some 1,000 of the 130 mm M-46 artillery guns. Around 180 guns were upgraded by Israeli firm Soltam in 2008.

The Army’s Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan, drawn in 1999, is aimed at acquiring 2,800-3,000 155 mm/52-calibre guns of all kinds and 155 mm/39-calibre lightweight howitzers by 2027.

The projection includes 814 truck-mounted guns, 1,580 towed guns, 100 tracked self-propelled guns, 180 wheeled self-propelled guns and 145 ultra-light howitzers.

Elbit Systems has won a bid to ATHOS (Autonomous Towed Howitzer Ordnance System) 2052 to the Indian Army, in a deal that could go up to Rs 9,000- 10,000 crore.

The DRDO is pushing to increase local production over import.

If Athos comes , i will lose all hope in indigenous weapons and forever hate the corrupt babus , politicians , generals and dalals.
We will always have a foreign import maal lover tag

I have been saying this from many days. Sooner or later all of you will realize that gen marshals jt. and add secretaries to ministers sab dalle hai , 1.5 lakh to 10 crore is their rate and they are in not 10s or 20's but thousands. West knows how to lure these scumbags.

This is why Modi wanted to fire all of them and bring fresh blood but that backfired, some hoe he managed to retire few hundreds of officers. At least more than fifty thousand government servants in India are corrupt. It requires mass scale cleaning. Should do it in 2023 or 2024 or if wins then 2025.

Boss.. the ones who will replace them will be equally corrupt.. It's in our blood...

If ATAGS loses out on orders, it will mainly be because the gun is overweight. The ATAGS currently weighs 18T, while ATHOS weighs 13T. We may end up seeing some geographical areas as a constraint for an 18T gun, especially areas in the mountains that require airlift. ATAGS was originally 20T, they managed to bring that down to 18T, now they are working to get it down to 16T. 16T should make it C-130/MTA capable.

I personally think the weight issue is a red herring. Or it's possible it's being used by some lobby to keep pushing an issue that's already been solved.

Anyway, there's also the long term plan of replacing all our guns, so there is plenty of space for both ATAGS and ATHOS, including large numbers of both Dhanush and M777. We are talking about as many as 4000 towed guns over two decades, not counting all the extra guns required for the two MSCs and a potential marine force.
 
ATAGS loses out on orders, it will mainly be because the gun is overweight. The ATAGS currently weighs 18T, while ATHOS weighs 13T. We may end up seeing some geographical areas as a constraint for an 18T gun, especially areas in the mountains that require airlift. ATAGS was originally 20T, they managed to bring that down to 18T, now they are working to get it down to 16T. 16T should make it C-130/MTA capable
Nothing of that sort. There was no competition with ATAGS to loose out. This is an outdated tender where 400 is direct import rest local production. Army always has option to order more Dhanush if there is any concern of weight. Times have changed, its ludicrous to import more howitzers.
 
Nothing of that sort. There was no competition with ATAGS to loose out. This is an outdated tender where 400 is direct import rest local production. Army always has option to order more Dhanush if there is any concern of weight. Times have changed, its ludicrous to import more howitzers.

I agree. But things are never that simple.

Anyway, the ATHOS will likely be nothing more than 10% of India's total artillery requriement.