Towed, self propelled all types are getting roasted. French Ceaser systems have been also lost. Its just that 122mm, 130mm and M777 form the bulk of artillery, that's why we hear so much about towed guns getting destroyed.
We need at least 500-600 M777's to really fix the whole supply chain issue regarding these guns. The Kalyani ulh can be procured later. But we seriously need to invest in the m777's another thing is we should likely buy the m270's and m142 himars for medium rocket artillery and set up a production line for those too. Rocket artillery is a huge gap where we are massively behind the PLA when compared to their rocket force and weishi series mlrs that have a range of upwards 300-450 km. Although I understand it will be expensive but we seriously need to have a simultenous running lines of rocket artillery. Also if Mahindra or Tata gets involved in it's production it will be much faster.That doesn't impact mass fire like you think it does. Due to its titanium build, the M777 sacrifices ruggedness for versatility, unlike other guns. Its advantage is it can actually access certain areas of the battlefield that other guns cannot. Especially behind enemy lines. Being able to bring a weapon to bear at a higher cost is a better option than getting caught in the open without one. LFG is a very low end replacement.
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Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
What if there are sanctions on India? How are you suppose to replace Ge414 powerplant which we are putting in almost all of Indian built aircrafts. The F414 is a 10-year program. If we don't get sanctioned before that, and the program is successfully completed, and the ToT is complete, then it...www.strategicfront.org
M777 gives us the option of ready replacements from the West, practically free. So we need to create infrastructure to support it in India. In Ukraine, they got the guns as is, and the minute the guns were damaged, which starts happening on the very first day due to CB fire, they got stuck.
Right now, we can only assemble the M777, but we need a production line set up, which BAE is ready to do with a follow-on order of 300 guns. They will manufacture the barrel too. So we will have experienced Indian hands fixing those guns, American and British citizens won't do it for us during a war.
The US operates 1000+ M777s, and some European countries are also bound to buy this gun. Experienced Indian hands, both civilian and military, and quick imports for attrition replacements are necessary in a fight with China.
There's the Excalibur advantage too. Not the capability itself, which is reproducible, but the numbers. After about 6 months or so, we will need 100,000 such shells supplied to us every month during war, affordable only via aid. As our gun inventory falls, we will need to make it up with precision to maintain intensity.
Weishi rockets - Wikipedia
Interesting thing is that the media is covering Iranian drones when it's actually the Lancets who are doing most of the damage to Ukrainian military assets. I hope BDL gets hands on these and start manufacturing these. Apparently they have very small warheads of upto 1kg to 3kg only.
Kalyani has bought the barrel making business of M777 too. And Mahindra does the rest of assembly in India itself. So M777 will also be made in India fully. But I prefer the order goes to Kalyanis 155/39 Titanium gun. Always local over foreign.
The Kalyani Group has a growing relationship with BAE Systems and purchased the British company’s barrel production unit located in the UK. This facility has been physically relocated from the UK to Pune.
For any future artillery orders BAE Systems gets from the international market – including a possible follow-on order from India for more M777 ultralight howitzers – it is likely to source barrels from the Kalyani Group.
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Kalyani has bought the barrel making business of M777 too. And Mahindra does the rest of assembly in India itself. So M777 will also be made in India fully. But I prefer the order goes to Kalyanis 155/39 Titanium gun. Always local over foreign.
The Kalyani Group has a growing relationship with BAE Systems and purchased the British company’s barrel production unit located in the UK. This facility has been physically relocated from the UK to Pune.
For any future artillery orders BAE Systems gets from the international market – including a possible follow-on order from India for more M777 ultralight howitzers – it is likely to source barrels from the Kalyani Group.
This is in addition to Swiss Barrel making industry?
They don't have the terrain we have. This is specific to M777. Without a heavy airlift capable gun, the PLAGF will suffer in the Himalayas.
Otherwise, yeah, it makes sense to combine the 1600 ATAGS deal with the 850 MGS deal and make them all MGS. So, mostly K9s, Garudas and MGS with some 400 M777s, not counting current inventory.
Sadly, we can't afford that. Too bad the Pinaka can't fire the HIMARS rockets.
Let's see what we decide after the IRF is set up.
We can easily afford these. The whole austerity measures for some imaginary baniya savings will hurt us in the long run. We need to get hands on the ATACMS and PrSM. Also the Israeli Extra and LORA will also be good procurement. The pinaka needs to be upgraded further. And we need to process the 120km variant of the smerch. Huge issues. And pralay numbers are too small and the whole system is to large to be used. We need ballistic missiles that can be fired from 4x4's and 6x6's.
Kalyani has bought the barrel making business of M777 too. And Mahindra does the rest of assembly in India itself. So M777 will also be made in India fully. But I prefer the order goes to Kalyanis 155/39 Titanium gun. Always local over foreign.
The Kalyani Group has a growing relationship with BAE Systems and purchased the British company’s barrel production unit located in the UK. This facility has been physically relocated from the UK to Pune.
For any future artillery orders BAE Systems gets from the international market – including a possible follow-on order from India for more M777 ultralight howitzers – it is likely to source barrels from the Kalyani Group.
The ULH order has to go to BAE. Kalyani can make other guns, like the steel one. We need access to American inventory.
Local industry won't exist in a long war with China. Pray even our cities exist, never mind ports and factories. With the exception of small arms, some ammo and whatever is underground, all of our production will be targeted. People can't work when ballistic missiles are raining down every other hour. Only small amounts of heavy weapons production is possible in a distributed setup. Otoh, China's production can move to Harbin, safe from Indian retaliation.
This is not a very convincing argument.
At best I will say send RFPs to both and select the best offer.
Yup, apart from ULH order, it doesn't make sense to buy towed artillery. Kalyani already have a truck mounted ATAGS, so combining ATAGS and MSG makes sense. 1000+ 155mm/52 cal 8X8 MSG and 1000+ 155mm/39 cal 4X4 MSG.
Pinaka's fine, it's climbing to 150Km next.
Yep, need them SRBMs in numbers.
We can't afford American rocket artillery. What we can afford is them supplying it for free when the war starts.
Rocket artillery is easy to train on, M777 is not. M777's complexity in its tactical use is way too much, it takes years. Whereas HIMARS is just an American Pinaka, a month of training and they are good to go, become an expert in two.
Pulling a gun is cheaper than carrying a gun. Maintenance, transportation and logistics serves the towed gun better.
At 16T, ATAGS is C-130 and planned MTA-compatible. But a truck-mounted ATAGS needs C-17, 'cause it will weigh over 30T.
Which is why the IAF is content with pack mule-compatible IFG/LFG, Mi-17-compatible LFG, Chinook-compatible M777, C-130-compatible ATAGS etc. I'm basically trying to say the IA knows best. But I'm sure they would also prefer a larger MGS component than planned. Unless of course they believe 1600 ATAGS have to be towed rather than mounted in any case.
If an M777 blows up, there are replacements available. Surviving crew members can immediately start using the replacement.
If Kalyani's ULH blows up, we are done. Surviving crew members have to be retrained when more M777s come in.
A loss is not a loss if there's a replacement available.
Unfortunately, we don't have options in some areas. The same with SH. While Rafale Ms and/or indigenous sytems are better options, but replacements don't exist for the latter. There are over 500 replacements available for 25-50 SHs.
Right now, we have replacements for K9 from Korea and Poland in the future, M777 and SH from the US. If we lose 300 K9s, 400 M777s and 400 Pinakas, then it's possible to get one-to-one replacements for all. The Chinese can't replace their losses. That's playing it smart.
We are wasting a billion dollars on the t-90. Procuring himars and m270's for around 1.5 billion $ along with production isn't a bad idea at all. Tata can do the production of these since American firms loves to invest in them.Pinaka's fine, it's climbing to 150Km next.
Yep, need them SRBMs in numbers.
We can't afford American rocket artillery. What we can afford is them supplying it for free when the war starts.
Rocket artillery is easy to train on, M777 is not. M777's complexity in its tactical use is way too much, it takes years. Whereas HIMARS is just an American Pinaka, a month of training and they are good to go, become an expert in two.
Something around 18 systems initially followed by a target of around 80-100 himars launchers would be a great addition.
While OFB can produce smerch rockets apparently smerch has got a 200km range missile in production now. They can also get hands on the Belarusian polonez which has 290km range.
Polonez (multiple rocket launcher) - Wikipedia
We can't afford Himars, it costs 2-3 times more than the Pinaka. So it's in the import ban list. The T-90 is more important.
While OFB can produce smerch rockets apparently smerch has got a 200km range missile in production now. They can also get hands on the Belarusian polonez which has 290km range.
Polonez (multiple rocket launcher) - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
The private sector is working on something in that class.
Pinaka is our Grad replacement. So a Smerch replacement is now necessary.
#1. Limited in that aspect also limited as M777 cannot be deployed in every circumstances compare to 105mm LFG.
#2. It does not work that way, import does not happen unless their is a serious reasons, Army has enough money for everything it want, during kargil IA ordered millions of 155mm shells on emergency needs from available vendors none responded then Army who disqualify millions of OFB shells for various reason were ordered which preformed same and sometime better than Swedish once imported, this is what Army actually told, If OFB can i am sure any private can a thousand times better.
#3. Point no : 1 & Towed will be always exposed to CB fire we lost guns and men during Kargil i can share some exclusive good details if you want.
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Zeus Numerix Precision Guidance Kit (PGK) for 81mm mortar shells from def expo 2022. Photo Credit :
@delhidefence
#2. It does not work that way, import does not happen unless their is a serious reasons, Army has enough money for everything it want, during kargil IA ordered millions of 155mm shells on emergency needs from available vendors none responded then Army who disqualify millions of OFB shells for various reason were ordered which preformed same and sometime better than Swedish once imported, this is what Army actually told, If OFB can i am sure any private can a thousand times better.
#3. Point no : 1 & Towed will be always exposed to CB fire we lost guns and men during Kargil i can share some exclusive good details if you want.
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Zeus Numerix Precision Guidance Kit (PGK) for 81mm mortar shells from def expo 2022. Photo Credit :
@delhidefence
Attachments
1. So need all three, K9, M777 and LFG.
2. Only if OFB and the private companies still exist.
3. To have some advantages, we will have to accept some disadvantages. It's something that only the IA can decide.
Zeus Numerix hinted that they are planning for a terminal guidance system for artillery shells as well. Their 81 mortar PGK has 15-20m accuracy.
Must have patience to read all of this before continue, you won't get such inside anywhere else.. 
I insist to read it.. !
GUN POSITIONS : GUN POSITIONS WHICH REQUIRE TO DUG OUT FOR TOWED ARTILLERY WITH AMMUNITION BUNKER ALONG TRENCHES TO DEFEND IT OR MOVEMENT AND HIDE FROM COUNTER BATTERY.
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Modern Battlefield outcomes are decided by it's factories churning out in background, something Pakistan Army felt during Kargil big time still couldn't archive due to corruption and will always lag behind Indian Army, China is something else though which demands India to more robust in it's Indigenous Defense Industry or suffer like Pakistan by our hands..
I insist to read it.. !
GUN POSITIONS : GUN POSITIONS WHICH REQUIRE TO DUG OUT FOR TOWED ARTILLERY WITH AMMUNITION BUNKER ALONG TRENCHES TO DEFEND IT OR MOVEMENT AND HIDE FROM COUNTER BATTERY.
==============
Modern Battlefield outcomes are decided by it's factories churning out in background, something Pakistan Army felt during Kargil big time still couldn't archive due to corruption and will always lag behind Indian Army, China is something else though which demands India to more robust in it's Indigenous Defense Industry or suffer like Pakistan by our hands..
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