Indian Military UAV Procurement Programs : General Discussions

[LoneWolfSandeep]

I would have to disagree with IA part here.

From RFIs and DRDO slides we know IA want 3 UAV categories. Both RFI asks for Indian vendor. In the case of MALE it even asks for

• Mini UAV - All up weight 35 kg - Possible Offerings : HAL/Elbit Skylark, Tata Advanced Systems/Boeing Scan Eagle, and AeroVironment/Dynamatic Technologies Puma. Its under 'buy Indian' in DPP.
• Short Range Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems (RPAS) - Endurance 10 hour . RFI asks for Indian developed vehicle. So, It will be Rustom 1.
• MALE UAV - Endurance 24 hours. Which is Rustom 2, Why would IA go for Hermes 900 if its under development? They are not in a hurry since RFI is not out yet. (Considering Mini-UAV RFI was first out in 2012)

Unlike IAF or IN, Army doesn't need Avenger or Reaper class of UAVs. For them, less capable Rustom 2 is good enough. Its refreshing to see IA going all Indian systems.

Thats what Ashwin & i have stated, that HALE Avenger is IAF requirement, the article was wrongly classified as army, but you still misused your powers as admin & migrated & merged my thread to Army uav.
Ofcource army doesnt have HALE requirement at present, my hale thread belonged correctly to IAF section where had posted, which was wrongly killed & merged to Army thread. now complaining there is no HALE requirement in army is novel.

 

[Ashwin]

Thats what Ashwin & i have stated, that HALE Avenger is IAF requirement, the article was wrongly classified as army, but you still misused your powers as admin & migrated & merged my thread to Army uav.
Ofcource army doesnt have HALE requirement at present, my hale thread belonged correctly to IAF section where had posted, which was wrongly killed & merged to Army thread. now complaining there is no HALE requirement in army is novel.

Please understand the definition of HALE, Avenger is not one. No Army needs a HALE. Its operated by AF or Navy.
That article is titled by the author as 'Army' quoting unknown sources. So, we can't put it in other categories just because we think so.

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

Please understand the definition of HALE, Avenger is not one. No Army needs a HALE. Its operated by AF or Navy.
That article is titled by the author as 'Army' quoting unknown sources. So, we can't put it in other categories just because we think so.

Oh really - your knowledge on Hale seems very poor, when you dont consider Avenger an HALE. Avenger known disclose of service sealing is 50000 ft or 15000m with 18hrs endurance. Source :- General Atomics Avenger - Wikipedia
While informed sources place capabilities of Predator C Avenger NG at 60000ft with 24hrs endurance

So first please define as per your understanding what constitutes a HALE aircraft. That will help help to educate yourself.

On the article -
1) it aslo stated "IAF has projected a requirement of over 100 US-made Predator C/Avenger armed UAV" so was clearly IAF requirement.
2) I had a clear understanding that article was infact for IAF as I even followed up with post Indian Army UAV Procurment Programs on Predator C Avenger
2) Lastly and most importantly Myself, @Tarun & @Ashwin in our own way shared the article written as Army was meant to be Armed forces instead. Where @Tarun even stated "Media report must be updated as Indian Armed Forces instead of Indian Army." While you went on your own tangent & Hung on to 'Army' word when anyone with clear understanding of what was being refereed & talked about would have come to same conclusion thats its about IAF HALE Predator C Avenger NG. Example given of Myself, tarun & Ashwin.

But like China you decided to use your VETO right - to move thread to Army & then complain on very obvious Army dont have HALE or Predator C Avenger NG requirements. Thats because its IAF nitwit.

 

[Ashwin]

Oh really - your knowledge on Hale seems very poor, when you dont consider Avenger an HALE. Avenger known disclose of service sealing is 50000 ft or 15000m with 18hrs endurance. Source :- General Atomics Avenger - Wikipedia
While informed sources place capabilities of Predator C Avenger NG at 60000ft with 24hrs endurance

So first please define as per your understanding what constitutes a HALE aircraft. That will help help to educate yourself.

HALE means High-Altitude Long Endurance. (60k ft+ and 30hr+)

There is no avenger NG version flying with 60,000 ft service ceiling. Predator C tested altitude is 50,000 ft and 18 hr endurance which is MALE. Maximum endurance is 20hr for ER version.

GA-ASI extended the wingspan of the Avenger ER by 10 feet to 76 feet, and enlarged its fuel capacity by 2,200 pounds to 10,100 pounds compared to previous specifications. The aircraft carries up to 3,000 pounds in its internal payload bay, 500 pounds less than previously described. The modifications extend its endurance from the original 15 hours to 20 hours. Maximum speed is advertised at 400 ktas, with a maximum altitude of 50,000 feet.

Predator C Avenger RPA

Other than fanboys and clickbait journalists, even the General Atomics don't call it HALE, And some make long unnecessary arguments based on half-informed reports. Also, The report attributed the story to Army so it will remain so.

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

HALE means High-Altitude Long Endurance. (60k ft+ and 30hr+)

Source please???? Or did you just make that up

As per official & wildly agreed definition of High Altitude Long Endurance as as follows

Even Proteus High-Altitude Aircraft - with 18hrs endurance is classified as HALE.
Also RQ-3A Dark Star with 45000ft & 8hrs endurance is classified as HALE.
While going to future classification of beyond 2025 norm be 24hrs endurance as correctly stated.

This proves you your lack of knowledge in this matter.

There is no avenger NG version flying with 60,000 ft service ceiling. Predator C tested altitude is 50,000 ft and 18 hr endurance which is MALE. Maximum endurance is 20hr for ER version.


Predator C Avenger RPA

Other than fanboys and clickbait journalists, even the General Atomics don't call it HALE, And some make long unnecessary arguments based on half-informed reports. Also, The report attributed the story to Army so it is.

Information about Avenger C or ER version - not applicable to discussion.
As only model interested by Indian Armed forces - ie IAF is Predator C Avenger NG
Continuing on your lack of knowledge, even by the stats you shared for existing older models of Avenger (which India is not interested in) there specifications, does bring it into definition of HALE as attached above.

Share Info about Predator C Avenger NG which India IAF is interested & discussing with GA & USA for. Not for less capable older variants of Avenger.
Less HotAir more substance please on specifics of Predator C Avenger NG - but then what to expect, have already proved your lack of knowledge in this regard.

#cheers

 

[Ashwin]

Source please???? Or did you just make that up

As per official & wildly agreed definition of High Altitude Long Endurance as as follows



Even Proteus High-Altitude Aircraft - with 18hrs endurance is classified as HALE.
Also RQ-3A Dark Star with 45000ft & 8hrs endurance is classified as HALE.
While going to future classification of beyond 2025 norm be 24hrs endurance as correctly stated.

So, Rustom-2 is also HALE for you with its endurance? Only HALE in production is RQ-4.

Show me a single western company calling its UAV HALE with less than spec what I quoted.

Wiki is quoting 90's paper when UAV tech was nascent. Same goes for RQ-3A. Today parameters changed with technical maturity.

Information about Avenger C or ER version - not applicable to discussion.

Your fictional Avenger NG has nothing to do with reality? That makes sense.

As only model interested by Indian Armed forces - ie IAF is Predator C Avenger NG
Continuing on your lack of knowledge, even by the stats you shared for existing older models of Avenger (which India is not interested in) there specifications, does bring it into definition of HALE as attached above.

Share Info about Predator C Avenger NG which India IAF is interested & discussing with GA & USA for. Not for less capable older variants of Avenger.
Less HotAir more substance please on specifics of Predator C Avenger NG - but then what to expect, have already proved your lack of knowledge in this regard.

And where is the official spec of NG ? Or at least evidence of official Indian interest. Only thing India requested is 22 Guardian version for IN .

This proves you your lack of knowledge in this matter.

You have used this arrogant phrase five times in last two posts. It shows a lot about you, not me. I request you to maintain basic etiquette hereafter.

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

So, Rustom-2 is also HALE for you with its endurance? Only HALE in production is RQ-4. Show me a single western company calling its UAV HALE with less than spec what I quoted.

Wiki is quoting 90's paper when UAV tech was nascent. Same goes for RQ-3A. Today parameters changed with technical maturity.

Read clearly -
View attachment 1187
While going to future classification of beyond 2025 norm be 24hrs endurance as correctly stated.
[/QUOTE]

Your fictional Avenger NG has nothing to do with reality? That makes sense.

You have used this arrogant phrase five times in last two posts. It shows a lot about you, not me. I request you to maintain basic etiquette hereafter.

Sorry to say, you want me to not state your lack of Knowledge, when clearly you dont know about NG.
Would like you to refer to PARIKRAMA on One-On-One & get updated.

As far as basic etiquette is concerned - I would like to request you not to merge any of my threads, without informing me first. And on that thread only you though its about Army & no one else. And then misused that power. Follow basic etiquette first before preaching.

 

[Ashwin]

Read clearly -
View attachment 1187
While going to future classification of beyond 2025 norm be 24hrs endurance as correctly stated.

Any bozo can write a paper on future 30 years down the line prediction. And some other quote it as source !.

Sorry to say, you want me to not state your lack of Knowledge, when clearly you dont know about NG.

So with all this blabbering, you got nothing?!

Would like you to refer to PARIKRAMA on One-On-One & get updated.

Unlike you, he knows what is fact and not. Try learning that skill.

As far as basic etiquette is concerned - I would like to request you not to merge any of my threads, without informing me first. And on that thread only you though its about Army & no one else. And then misused that power. Follow basic etiquette before preaching.

It's my prerogative to decide on how to arrange threads. Also, Did you write the article to call it your's? so, It's not your property to start with.

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

Unlike you, he knows what is fact and not. Try learning that skill.

Thats was for you my dear - Excellent you appreciate his skills, now do yourself the favour & discuss one-on-one with him on NG as I suggested earlier. Rather than going arrogantly on its my prerogative to do shit as my right as i choose, even when other admins are not in agreement with you on same thread.
Like someone talked about basic etiquette

 

[Ashwin]

Thats was for you my dear - Excellent you appreciate his skills, now do yourself the favour & discuss one-on-one with him on NG as I suggested earlier. Rather than going arrogantly on its my prerogative to do shit as my right as i choose, even when other admins are not in agreement with you on same thread.
Like someone talked about basic etiquette

We discuss every other day dear. Thank you for your advice though.

 

[LoneWolfSandeep]

We discuss every other day dear. Thank you for your advice though.

So what was the result - on NG??????...... Are you satisfied with your mistake.

 

[Ashwin]

Army asking for Stealth HALE UAVs .

 

[Bali78]

Captain Haddock.


Answer is security threat. One will need a licence and a real time GPS tracking unique id. Imagine a DJI Phantom 4 Pro taking a stroll in the Rahstrapati Bhavan .. or in your flight path as you take off.

Indians can't drive their vehicles properly ... try empowering them in airborne vehicles ...... I shudder.

Sometime back a drone crashed inside White House. Forget about India, even for secret service handling these stray drones is a big headache!!

 

[Shashank]

https://twitter.com/x/status/976724757784784896

 

[indiandefencefacts]

THE Rustom-II Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV), which is being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), will be delivered to the armed forces by 2020, said DRDO Chairman S Chistopher, in Pune on Friday.
Christopher was speaking to the media on the sidelines of the 10th convocation ceremony of the Defence Institute of Advanced Technology (DIAT), a technological university of the Ministry of Defence. Christopher is also the chairman of the Governing Council of the DIAT.
After the convocation ceremony, Christopher told media: “Rustom II has completed one test at Chitradurga in Karnataka. At present, the bird (basic UAV system) is being perfected. Attempts are also being made to increase the altitude. By the end of this year, we will be ready with the bird, after which the focus will be on the machine systems on it.”
The drone is being developed for use by all three services of the Indian Armed Forces, primarily for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) operations. The medium-altitude prototype can fly at over 22,000 feet and is a long-endurance UAV that has an 20 hours approximate flight time.
Christopher said, “After perfecting the bird, the manufacturing will be done by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd and Bharat Electronics Ltd, as per the contract. By 2020, our target is to deliver it to the user, the armed forces.”

 

[_Anonymous_]

THE Rustom-II Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV), which is being developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), will be delivered to the armed forces by 2020, said DRDO Chairman S Chistopher, in Pune on Friday.
Christopher was speaking to the media on the sidelines of the 10th convocation ceremony of the Defence Institute of Advanced Technology (DIAT), a technological university of the Ministry of Defence. Christopher is also the chairman of the Governing Council of the DIAT.
After the convocation ceremony, Christopher told media: “Rustom II has completed one test at Chitradurga in Karnataka. At present, the bird (basic UAV system) is being perfected. Attempts are also being made to increase the altitude. By the end of this year, we will be ready with the bird, after which the focus will be on the machine systems on it.”
The drone is being developed for use by all three services of the Indian Armed Forces, primarily for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) operations. The medium-altitude prototype can fly at over 22,000 feet and is a long-endurance UAV that has an 20 hours approximate flight time.
Christopher said, “After perfecting the bird, the manufacturing will be done by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd and Bharat Electronics Ltd, as per the contract. By 2020, our target is to deliver it to the user, the armed forces.”

View attachment 2617

I hope DRDO doesn't issue a statement claiming it's better than Predator , for if they do , even @randomradio would find it hard to justify such a statement.

 

[randomradio]

I hope DRDO doesn't issue a statement claiming it's better than Predator , for if they do , even @randomradio would find it hard to justify such a statement.

There are three Predators. A, B and C. And there are further divisions within them.

If the Rustom-2 achieves all that it is set out to achieve, it will be better than the early version of the Predator B, also called the Reaper. But not as good as the later versions.
It is most definitely superior to Predator A in all parameters.
Predator C, the Avenger, no chance. This one's in a different league.

 

[R!cK]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1036933302861455362

CYIENT - BLUEBIRD JOINT VENTURE WINS ITS FIRST ORDER FROM INDIAN ARMY FOR SPYLITE MINI UAS—THE ONLY SYSTEM TO PASS THE ARMY’S EXTREMELY HIGH ALTITUDE TRIAL
Taking off from very high altitude in extreme weather conditions, the SpyLite flew over the high mountainous landscape, performing all its missions successfully

Hyderabad, India, and Kadima, Israel, September 04, 2018: Cyient Solutions & Systems Pvt. Ltd. (CSS), a joint venture between Cyient Ltd. and BlueBird Aero Systems, Israel, today announced that it has received its first supply order from a unit of the Indian Army for SpyLite mini UAV systems for high altitude aerial surveillance.

CSS offered, and successfully demonstrated, its flagship mini UAV system, SpyLite, which was the only one that met end-user requirements to conduct real-time surveillance and target acquisition at very high altitude and in extreme weather conditions. The SpyLite was also the only UAV system to complete and pass the trial.

SpyLite is an advanced, combat-proven, electric, mini unmanned aerial system. It is optimized to offer covert, extended range real-time visual intelligence. Fully autonomous, from launch to accurate parachute recovery, the system delivers enhanced reliability even in severe weather conditions, assuring long endurance, high operational availability.

During trials, the SpyLite emerged as a mature system, incorporating unique capabilities and delivering superior performance as compared to systems in the mini-UAV class. The SpyLite demonstrated quick operational readiness supported by launch and recovery in high altitudes and harsh terrains. Its low visual and acoustic signature underlined its suitability for covert operations. Using high-end payloads, the system delivered high quality day and night videos, for an impressive control range and ensured a high level of safety with automatic return home and recovery in “no communication” situations.

The system also demonstrated “operation on the move” while the operator controlled the UAV from a moving vehicle until finally recovering it.

Commenting on the announcement, Ronen Nadir, CEO of BlueBird Aero Systems said: “When looking for the perfect UAV solution, experienced end-users, such as the Indian Army opt for a winning combination of field-proven UAV systems with high performance, diverse capabilities, high reliability, low lifecycle cost, and ease of use. That’s what the SpyLite offers, and we are glad it was proven once again in the Indian Army’s trials.”

NJ Joseph, Managing Director & CEO, Cyient Solutions & Systems commented: “Defence and security forces around the world have come to rely on the SpyLite’s exceptional performance. We are delighted that the Indian Army has selected the SpyLite for its operational requirements and feel privileged that these systems will complement the surveillance capabilities of our armed forces on the nation’s borders.”

About Cyient Solutions & Systems (CSS):

Cyient Solutions & Systems (CSS) is a joint venture between Cyient and Israel-based BlueBird Aero Systems that provides UAS-based intelligence gathering, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance (ISTAR) capabilities for defence, homeland security, and civilian applications. Our unmanned aerial systems operate through a unified, intuitive, and advanced ground control station and are designed to overcome modern security challenges.

Cyient - BlueBird Joint Venture Wins Its First Order from Indian Army for SpyLite Mini UAS—the Only System to Pass the Army’s Extremely High Altitude Trial - Cyient

 

[Ashwin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1036933302861455362

CYIENT - BLUEBIRD JOINT VENTURE WINS ITS FIRST ORDER FROM INDIAN ARMY FOR SPYLITE MINI UAS—THE ONLY SYSTEM TO PASS THE ARMY’S EXTREMELY HIGH ALTITUDE TRIAL
Taking off from very high altitude in extreme weather conditions, the SpyLite flew over the high mountainous landscape, performing all its missions successfully

View attachment 3066

Hyderabad, India, and Kadima, Israel, September 04, 2018: Cyient Solutions & Systems Pvt. Ltd. (CSS), a joint venture between Cyient Ltd. and BlueBird Aero Systems, Israel, today announced that it has received its first supply order from a unit of the Indian Army for SpyLite mini UAV systems for high altitude aerial surveillance.

CSS offered, and successfully demonstrated, its flagship mini UAV system, SpyLite, which was the only one that met end-user requirements to conduct real-time surveillance and target acquisition at very high altitude and in extreme weather conditions. The SpyLite was also the only UAV system to complete and pass the trial.

SpyLite is an advanced, combat-proven, electric, mini unmanned aerial system. It is optimized to offer covert, extended range real-time visual intelligence. Fully autonomous, from launch to accurate parachute recovery, the system delivers enhanced reliability even in severe weather conditions, assuring long endurance, high operational availability.

View attachment 3065

During trials, the SpyLite emerged as a mature system, incorporating unique capabilities and delivering superior performance as compared to systems in the mini-UAV class. The SpyLite demonstrated quick operational readiness supported by launch and recovery in high altitudes and harsh terrains. Its low visual and acoustic signature underlined its suitability for covert operations. Using high-end payloads, the system delivered high quality day and night videos, for an impressive control range and ensured a high level of safety with automatic return home and recovery in “no communication” situations.


View attachment 3067
The system also demonstrated “operation on the move” while the operator controlled the UAV from a moving vehicle until finally recovering it.

Commenting on the announcement, Ronen Nadir, CEO of BlueBird Aero Systems said: “When looking for the perfect UAV solution, experienced end-users, such as the Indian Army opt for a winning combination of field-proven UAV systems with high performance, diverse capabilities, high reliability, low lifecycle cost, and ease of use. That’s what the SpyLite offers, and we are glad it was proven once again in the Indian Army’s trials.”

NJ Joseph, Managing Director & CEO, Cyient Solutions & Systems commented: “Defence and security forces around the world have come to rely on the SpyLite’s exceptional performance. We are delighted that the Indian Army has selected the SpyLite for its operational requirements and feel privileged that these systems will complement the surveillance capabilities of our armed forces on the nation’s borders.”

View attachment 3068

About Cyient Solutions & Systems (CSS):

Cyient Solutions & Systems (CSS) is a joint venture between Cyient and Israel-based BlueBird Aero Systems that provides UAS-based intelligence gathering, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance (ISTAR) capabilities for defence, homeland security, and civilian applications. Our unmanned aerial systems operate through a unified, intuitive, and advanced ground control station and are designed to overcome modern security challenges.

Cyient - BlueBird Joint Venture Wins Its First Order from Indian Army for SpyLite Mini UAS—the Only System to Pass the Army’s Extremely High Altitude Trial - Cyient

There is a recent RFI by army for the same in numbers (75 minimum). Looks like this is a different small order.

 

[Arvind]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1036933302861455362

CYIENT - BLUEBIRD JOINT VENTURE WINS ITS FIRST ORDER FROM INDIAN ARMY FOR SPYLITE MINI UAS—THE ONLY SYSTEM TO PASS THE ARMY’S EXTREMELY HIGH ALTITUDE TRIAL
Taking off from very high altitude in extreme weather conditions, the SpyLite flew over the high mountainous landscape, performing all its missions successfully

View attachment 3066

Hyderabad, India, and Kadima, Israel, September 04, 2018: Cyient Solutions & Systems Pvt. Ltd. (CSS), a joint venture between Cyient Ltd. and BlueBird Aero Systems, Israel, today announced that it has received its first supply order from a unit of the Indian Army for SpyLite mini UAV systems for high altitude aerial surveillance.

CSS offered, and successfully demonstrated, its flagship mini UAV system, SpyLite, which was the only one that met end-user requirements to conduct real-time surveillance and target acquisition at very high altitude and in extreme weather conditions. The SpyLite was also the only UAV system to complete and pass the trial.

SpyLite is an advanced, combat-proven, electric, mini unmanned aerial system. It is optimized to offer covert, extended range real-time visual intelligence. Fully autonomous, from launch to accurate parachute recovery, the system delivers enhanced reliability even in severe weather conditions, assuring long endurance, high operational availability.

View attachment 3065

During trials, the SpyLite emerged as a mature system, incorporating unique capabilities and delivering superior performance as compared to systems in the mini-UAV class. The SpyLite demonstrated quick operational readiness supported by launch and recovery in high altitudes and harsh terrains. Its low visual and acoustic signature underlined its suitability for covert operations. Using high-end payloads, the system delivered high quality day and night videos, for an impressive control range and ensured a high level of safety with automatic return home and recovery in “no communication” situations.


View attachment 3067
The system also demonstrated “operation on the move” while the operator controlled the UAV from a moving vehicle until finally recovering it.

Commenting on the announcement, Ronen Nadir, CEO of BlueBird Aero Systems said: “When looking for the perfect UAV solution, experienced end-users, such as the Indian Army opt for a winning combination of field-proven UAV systems with high performance, diverse capabilities, high reliability, low lifecycle cost, and ease of use. That’s what the SpyLite offers, and we are glad it was proven once again in the Indian Army’s trials.”

NJ Joseph, Managing Director & CEO, Cyient Solutions & Systems commented: “Defence and security forces around the world have come to rely on the SpyLite’s exceptional performance. We are delighted that the Indian Army has selected the SpyLite for its operational requirements and feel privileged that these systems will complement the surveillance capabilities of our armed forces on the nation’s borders.”

View attachment 3068

About Cyient Solutions & Systems (CSS):

Cyient Solutions & Systems (CSS) is a joint venture between Cyient and Israel-based BlueBird Aero Systems that provides UAS-based intelligence gathering, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance (ISTAR) capabilities for defence, homeland security, and civilian applications. Our unmanned aerial systems operate through a unified, intuitive, and advanced ground control station and are designed to overcome modern security challenges.

Cyient - BlueBird Joint Venture Wins Its First Order from Indian Army for SpyLite Mini UAS—the Only System to Pass the Army’s Extremely High Altitude Trial - Cyient

Why is it so that we set so high expectation that only one in the world matches? How come other forces lives without those and do much better than Indian Armed Forces?