Indian Political Discussion

With respect i am not here for your pleasure - educate and be around people i like to interject with - just pointing out the hounds of Baskerville are becoming a bit monotonous. Surprised you havent played the Muslim card.

You admit to being a muslim and make no bones about it so what is the use of playing the muslim card ? Those are for muslims who pretend to be a hindu.

Your reasons for being here is irrelevant to me or anyone for that matter. Same as your opinion of Modi.

Feel free to talk about his policies or actions or politics or party.
 
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some segment in TN is going to misuse his non Tamil background to score some points against him. Lets see how it goes.
Kamal is too rigid while Rajani give impression of being too soft as of now.
Kamal is a man with no principles whatsoever. No wonder I don't see much support for him. Rajnikanth is well respected, but I am not sure he will survive in this world of murky politics.
 
@Superkaif The problem is criticism is hardly accepted from other "loyalists". Even @vsdoc claim himself as congress "loyalist", BJP walas are neither hard to find.

Loyalist don't discuss, loyalist serve the political purpose. No healthy debates can happen between bakhts, loyalists and commies.

Political orientation is fine, but behaving like their advocate seldom helps.
 
In Uttar Pradesh, the SP-BSP combine will have to contend with a new BJP

As the Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) extended support to Samajwadi Party (SP) candidates in two Lok Sabha by-polls in Uttar Pradesh, workers and well-wishers of the two parties evoked memories of the early 90s.

The BJP had seemed invincible after the Babri Masjid demolition. But it was short of a majority in the UP state assembly in the 1993 elections. The SP-BSP came together to form the government. And the BJP could only return to power once the two split. The alliance succeeded in projecting the BJP as a Hindu upper-caste party. And the SP-BSP came across as representative of the subaltern within the Hindu fold — the OBCs and Dalits — with the Muslims providing the additional numbers. It is this formula that the two parties would like to replicate in the Gorakhpur and Phulpur bypolls, and possibly, in 2019.

But they will face a challenge. This is because the BJP of today is no longer the BJP of the early 90s. From being a formation of primarily upper-castes, it is today, arguably, an inclusive Hindu party.

This is best reflected in the non-Nehru-Gandhi pantheon that the BJP has sought to construct in recent years. Prime Minister Narendra Modi has often invoked three figures: Deendayal Upadhyaya, Ram Manohar Lohia and BR Ambedkar. In February, President Ram Nath Kovind delivered the Lohia Memorial Lecture in Gwalior and referenced the same three leaders. The political messaging is obvious, for the three represent the three distinct strands the BJP would like to weave within the party.

Upadhyaya is an obvious choice. He was a Jan Sangh pioneer. He represents the Sangh’s core Hindu upper-caste constituency. The renaming of public sites, the inclusion in school textbooks, the repeated references in speeches of all BJP ministers and chief ministers, the branding of welfare schemes in his name constitute a concerted effort to give to the BJP’s original supporters a sense of pride. The fact that Upadhyaya’s Antodaya vision can be interpreted as a welfarist project helps the party expand his acceptability. Electorally, Upadhyaya helps consolidate the core Hindutva vote.

But this existed even in the 90s. A key addition in the pantheon is Lohia. Lohia may have been open to an anti-Congress alliance with the Jan Sangh in 1967. But as his seminal ‘Hindu banam Hindu’ (Hindu versus Hindu) essay shows, Lohia believed there was a core contradiction between the liberal and orthodox/conservative strands of Hinduism. He placed himself firmly in the former category. His protégés have been the foremost challengers to the BJP in UP and Bihar, and ensured that OBCs in particular stayed away from the project of Hindu unity. By appropriating Lohia, Modi has sought to appropriate the ‘social justice’ platform and backward social groups. Electorally, this has translated into the non-Yadav OBC consolidation behind the party in UP.

Finally, the BJP’s audacious bid to include Ambedkar is the third element of the political strategy. It is audacious because Ambedkar rejected not just the caste system, but Hinduism itself, while the BJP’s core political project is unifying and strengthening Hindu society. Investing in the five sites associated with Ambedkar’s life, naming the government’s digital payment app BHIM, holding a special parliamentary meet to commemorate Ambedkar’s 125th birth anniversary or nominating Kovind as President are just some steps to own the icon who Dalits across the country deify.

Electorally, this has translated into support of several Dalit communities — the ‘invisible’ non-dominant Dalit subcastes in particular — for the party in UP.

There are major contradictions between Upadhyaya, Lohia and Ambedkar. There are ongoing conflicts between the different social groups they represent. The BJP itself struggles to reconcile its core and traditional upper caste orientation with assertive backward and Dalit politics.

Yet, there is a new BJP, which is, through these three men, positioning itself as both accommodative of all Hindu social communities and sensitive to the poor. In UP, the BSP and SP, which had a monopoly over Ambedkar and Lohia respectively in the 90s, will have to battle this new BJP.

[email protected]

In Uttar Pradesh, the SP-BSP combine will have to contend with a new BJP | analysis | Hindustan Times
 
@Superkaif The problem is criticism is hardly accepted from other "loyalists". Even @vsdoc claim himself as congress "loyalist", BJP walas are neither hard to find.

Loyalist don't discuss, loyalist serve the political purpose. No healthy debates can happen between bakhts, loyalists and commies.

Political orientation is fine, but behaving like their advocate seldom helps.

You are being economic with the truth.

You aren't telling super (not that he needs to be told ...) the real reason for the mutual contempt.

Cheers, Doc
 
We want a civil, rational debate. That has never been the case here. There has been little constructive criticism of Modi, if any, mainly just attacks. We have been routinely attacked as Sanghis and characterized as saffron bigots frothing at the mouth, sort of the way you just did. From the very beginning there was a troll, Guy Next Door, who has somehow escaped a permanent ban over 2 separate forums in spite of nonstop trolling. Then there was his defender, bonobashi, who would enable him and provide him cover while condescending to other users and claiming the moral high ground about how he wanted a clean, civil blog etc etc. And now there's Doc, who is frankly a totally changed man after his stay at the Green Place, and has practically flipped 180 degrees since I last met him.


You're new.

I've been a green place oldie, non stop, for closing on 10 years now.

I'm amused when you try to pass yourself off as a senior.

Doesn't gel for some of us here.

Cheers, Doc
 
You're new.

I've been a green place oldie, non stop, for closing on 10 years now.

I'm amused when you try to pass yourself off as a senior.

Doesn't gel for some of us here.

Cheers, Doc

I know, when I talk about your stay at the Green place, I'm specifically referring to the period of time after you were kicked out of the last Indian forum. Something has clearly changed since then. And if I had been aware of that change, I certainly wouldn't have requested the mods there to unban you in spite of how livid they seemed.

And I don't try to pass myself off as anything, I am what I am, and for that I don't need anyone's approval or verification. Certainly not yours.

"Cheers."
 
I know, when I talk about your stay at the Green place, I'm specifically referring to the period of time after you were kicked out of the last Indian forum. Something has clearly changed since then. And if I had been aware of that change, I certainly wouldn't have requested the mods there to unban you in spite of how livid they seemed.

And I don't try to pass myself off as anything, I am what I am, and for that I don't need anyone's approval or verification. Certainly not yours.

"Cheers."

Did I ask you for or even want your "help"

You approached me (unsolicited as I remember) at PDF to come back.

Why don't you quote here what I told you.

Or would you like me to?

Cheers, Doc
 
Did I ask you for or even want your "help"

You approached me (unsolicited as I remember) at PDF to come back.

Why don't you quote here what I told you.

Or would you like me to?

Cheers, Doc

No, you didn't, I took that step out of friendship because you seemed to be a different person then, and when I saw a user on PDF with the same way of writing and the same sig, I was glad to re-discover an old friend.

But whatever it was that happened in the interlude, you're clearly a very different person now.
 
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One thing i will say is any criticism of Modi
You could have said that if there was any 'criticism' when instead there has been nothing but 'venom and personal jibes and attacks' at Hindus from the usual suspects. A truly neutral observer would surely see that. A lot of people here have disagreed with Modi (including myself) and calmly explained their PoV but those sh**bags haven't ever attempted any such thing. There is no reason to not pay them back in the same coin.
 
No, you didn't, I took that step out of friendship because you seemed to be a different person then, and when I saw a user on PDF with the same way of writing and the same sig, I was glad to re-discover an old friend.

But whatever it was that happened in the interlude, you're clearly a very different person now.

Good.

Cheers, Doc
 
You could have said that if there was any 'criticism' when instead there has been nothing but 'venom and personal jibes and attacks' at Hindus from the usual suspects. A truly neutral observer would surely see that. A lot of people here have disagreed with Modi (including myself) and calmly explained their PoV but those sh**bags haven't ever attempted any such thing. There is no reason to not pay them back in the same coin.
My experience tells me ignoring people with agendas and abuse works just fine - hurling abuse reduces intellect.
Politics is a dirty game wherever you view it from - be it right or left.
Your assertion that Hindus are maligned is IMO not the case - let’s agree to differ.
 
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My experience tells me ignoring people with agendas and abuse works just fine - hurling abuse reduces intellect.
Politics is a dirty game wherever you view it from - be it right or left.
Your assertion that Hindus are maligned is IMO not the case - let’s agree to differ.

Which is why I call Modi's India a saffron Pakistan.

Dharam khatre mein having morphed from Islam khatre mein.

An Abrahamic world view cloaked in bhagwa.

Cheers, Doc
 
Which is why I call Modi's India a saffron Pakistan.

Dharam khatre mein having morphed from Islam khatre mein.

An Abrahamic world view cloaked in bhagwa.

Cheers, Doc

Frankly, if it were a saffron Pakistan, you wouldn't be able to spout nonsense like that; and there wouldn't be several minority communities living there, largely trouble free.

Do tell us, how many Parsis are left in Pakistan, how are they doing over there? How about other minorities? Forget non-Islamic minorities, how are Shias over there...?

Saffron Pakistan my a**.
 
Frankly, if it were a saffron Pakistan, you wouldn't be able to spout nonsense like that; and there wouldn't be several minority communities living there, largely trouble free.

Do tell us, how many Parsis are left in Pakistan, how are they doing over there? How about other minorities? Forget non-Islamic minorities, how are Shias over there...?

Saffron Pakistan my a**.

Give it time. Pakistan's had 70 years ...

Send me your address in the US.

I'll send you a postcard.

Cheers, Doc
 
I created this excel sheet sometime back about seats won by NDA and UPA in 2004, 2009 and 2014 as well as projections for 2019, from my POV. It gives some interesting prospective like the extreme swing in Rajasthan or absolutely no changes in Chattisgarh.


poll.JPG
 
Give it time. Pakistan's had 70 years ...

Send me your address in the US.

I'll send you a postcard.

Cheers, Doc

Sure, because there are no inherent differences between Islam and Hinduism, or a completely artificial state like Pakistan vs. a historical entity like India right?

Tell me, how many countries that started where India did, became even remotely functional democracies? Why are they unable to introduce democracy to the Middle East, to this day? Does it strike you that maybe, just maybe, in spite of your gross mischaracterizations and unfair taunts, there's something inherently peaceful, tolerant and democratic about Hinduism?

Maybe that's why we never persecuted Jews like the rest of the world, maybe that's why we sheltered Muslims and Christians (including having one of the world's oldest mosques), or took in Parsis. Maybe that's why in spite of spending most of our history fighting one wave of invaders or the other, we never became like them - only becoming more assertive where it was necessary to maintain survival, and continued to maintain a peaceful, composite land for all?

The simple truth is, for too long Hindus have lived as if they were a minority in India, constantly being the whipping boys for Congress, receiving step motherly treatment and having to walk on eggshells. And they've finally woken up to this and become more assertive, and that perhaps is what scares you, maybe because you'd prefer Hindus to live indefinitely with their heads bowed - though I don't know why.

Just remember, while Hindus are in the majority, and remotely assertive in India, everyone other than the Islamists is safe. The day Hindus start rolling over and dying the way you seem to prefer, India will end up just like Persia, and then there will be around a billion of us on boats looking for the nearest refuge.