Indo-Israeli Barak-8 / MRSAM

[randomradio]

Azerbaijan and Israel use Barak-8 version of the missile. It has almost similar technologies like our MRSAM but it looks entirely different. Also, Barak-8 has an ER version which we did not develop. It is their standalone development.View attachment 25385View attachment 25386View attachment 25387View attachment 25388

On the other hand, MRSAM is a joint venture between IAI and DRDO and its only customers are IA, IAF and IN. Previously, IN used to address this missile as LRSAM but now they have changed it back to MRSAM.

A new longer range missile is being developed for IN and IAF under the name Programme LRSAM.

View attachment 25394View attachment 25393View attachment 25392View attachment 25391View attachment 25390View attachment 25389

We should stop using the name Barak-8 and start addressing our version of the missile as MRSAM. I also request to change the name of the thread to MRSAM.

Pics credit: Google and Twitter.

You are probably referring to the Barak MX.

It's a family of single-pulse and dual-pulse Baraks.

But ours is the Barak 8 family.

So the name used is fine. I'd wager the Azeri version is a more Israeli version of the Barak 8, with their own propulsion system. AFAIK, the IN uses a MS seeker whereas the IAF and IA versions come with AESA seekers. The Azeri version probably uses the older seeker, hence the faster induction.

IN uses the term LRSAM and IAF uses MRSAM. I believe an extended range version is being developed for the IN, whereas the IAF may have different plans. The IN needs it for BMD. It's also possible the IAF's extended range version is called ERSAM.

 

[Fatalis]

But ours is the Barak 8 family.

Actually ours is MRSAM family. The image of Barak-8 written on missile was during its inception, now Israel has completely moved on towards Barak-MX family of missiles. MRSAM is our tailor made program. No-one expect us is using it now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1597991969674133504

Here, you can see them using Barak-LRAD missile similar to Azerbaijan.

IN uses the term LRSAM and IAF uses MRSAM. I believe an extended range version is being developed for the IN, whereas the IAF may have different plans. The IN needs it for BMD. It's also possible the IAF's extended range version is called ERSAM.

I think IN used to call it LRSAM but now has started calling it MRSAM. There is a separate program under development called Programme LRSAM for IN and IAF which will see both using longer range SAMs either based on AD-1 or some new missile and MRSAM will fill the middle range of the spectrum.

 

[randomradio]

Actually ours is MRSAM family. The image of Barak-8 written on missile was during its inception, now Israel has completely moved on towards Barak-MX family of missiles. MRSAM is our tailor made program. No-one expect us is using it now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1597991969674133504

Here, you can see them using Barak-LRAD missile similar to Azerbaijan.

I think IN used to call it LRSAM but now has started calling it MRSAM. There is a separate program under development called Programme LRSAM for IN and IAF which will see both using longer range SAMs either based on AD-1 or some new missile and MRSAM will fill the middle range of the spectrum.
View attachment 25408

Yeah, the Israelis have moved on.

This is the Barak 8 from Sa'ar 5.

So what we are using is the Barak 8 family.

The new MX is different family.

Flag off ceremony of final production batch of LRSAM Missiles

Final production batch of Long Range Surface to Air Missiles (LRSAM), designed and developed by DRDO

pib.gov.in

The navy still calls it LRSAM.

The DRDO stamp with "Programme LRSAM" refers to the BMD.

Here's an import exemption amendment from 2011 referring to it.

Amends Notification No. 64/95-Central Excise, dated the 16th March, 1995 - Goods supplied for defence and other specified purposes - Excise

NOTIFICATION No.34/2011-CENTRAL EXCISE Amends Notification No 64 95 Central Excise dated the 16th March 1995 Goods supplied for defence and other specified purposes TO BE PUBLISHED IN THE GAZETTE OF

www.caclubindia.com

Since the notification is from 1995, I believe it refers to our BMD program.

 

[Fatalis]

So what we are using is the Barak 8 family.

Sir ji, then why call it Barak-8 when Israel itself has developed a family of missile known as Barak-MX? It is so confusing. I could only find that INS Lahav was having Barak-8/MRSAM/LRSAM. Then they moved to Barak-MX LRAD on their Sa'ar-6 vessels along with their land forces.

The navy still calls it LRSAM.

Navy LRSAM has been renamed as MRSAM according to saurav jha.

I was taking this as a reference and along with different PIBs released which mentioned IN going to procure more MRSAMs.

Sorry, if I am stretching it too far.

 

[Chain Smoker]

This whole mrsam saga is a big scam, Israeli used our money to develop barak 8 with their own motor and are exporting it to the whole world therefore killing the market for mrsam ,meanwhile we can't do the same in return. @randomradio

 

[randomradio]

Sir ji, then why call it Barak-8 when Israel itself has developed a family of missile known as Barak-MX? It is so confusing. I could only find that INS Lahav was having Barak-8/MRSAM/LRSAM. Then they moved to Barak-MX LRAD on their Sa'ar-6 vessels along with their land forces.

MRSAM, LRSAM etc are program names. The SAMs will have internal designations that we are not yet privy to. I suppose we will know more once the army gets their version in 2024.

I was taking this as a reference and along with different PIBs released which mentioned IN going to procure more MRSAMs.

Sorry, if I am stretching it too far.

It's weird to rename a program name though.

 

[randomradio]

This whole mrsam saga is a big scam, Israeli used our money to develop barak 8 with their own motor and are exporting it to the whole world therefore killing the market for mrsam ,meanwhile we can't do the same in return. @randomradio

Our contribution was peanuts. It's mostly their IP. It's no different from MKI.

 

[RASALGHUL]

Our contribution was peanuts

Can yoy explain more?
If it's true then, It's down right tragic, that DRDO is just very incompetent Organization( When it comes to research).

 

[Fatalis]

Our contribution was money. It is more like we paid for an Indian version of their missile. Then we learnt from it and started our own programs like Akash-NG, Astra MK-2, etc. We were really struggling in the first decade of 21st century for a decent medium range SAM and this saved us. Instead of showing attitude of we can do on our own we did the right thing at that time and learnt from it. Now, we are not dependent on anyone and we are producing world class missiles.

 

[RASALGHUL]

Now, we are not dependent on anyone and we are producing world class missiles.

I hope it's tue.

We were really struggling in the first decade of 21st century for a decent medium range SAM and this saved us. Instead of showing attitude of we can do on our own we did the right thing at that time and learnt from it.

I have no problem with it, if it's true.

 

[randomradio]

Can yoy explain more?
If it's true then, It's down right tragic, that DRDO is just very incompetent Organization( When it comes to research).

DRDO led our attempt to develop a ship-based point defence system via the Trishul program, it was a Barak-1 equivalent. It failed, so the IN chose the Barak 8, a far more advanced capability. DRDO entered that program with the Trishul's motor. Also, the requirements were created decades ago, so it was outdated compared to the latest around, like the Barak 8 and Aster family.

The IAF chose the SPYDER over Trishul. DRDO couldn't get the radar to work properly, and they couldn't meet the mobility requirements either. It was based on a BMP-2.

They were impressed by Barak 8 and both IAF and IA chose it as part of the MRSAM program with more advanced capabilities.

VL-SRSAM for the IN/IAF and QRSAM for the IA are Trishul's successors. Why different programs? IN and IAF want to hit targets at high altitude, whereas IA wants to hit targets below 6Km. So VL-SRSAM is based on Astra and QRSAM is a new design meant for low-altitude performance and a massive warhead.

 

[RASALGHUL]

DRDO led our attempt to develop a ship-based point defence system via the Trishul program, it was a Barak-1 equivalent. It failed, so the IN chose the Barak 8, a far more advanced capability. DRDO entered that program with the Trishul's motor. Also, the requirements were created decades ago, so it was outdated compared to the latest around, like the Barak 8 and Aster family.

The IAF chose the SPYDER over Trishul. DRDO couldn't get the radar to work properly, and they couldn't meet the mobility requirements either. It was based on a BMP-2.

They were impressed by Barak 8 and both IAF and IA chose it as part of the MRSAM program with more advanced capabilities.

VL-SRSAM for the IN/IAF and QRSAM for the IA are Trishul's successors. Why different programs? IN and IAF want to hit targets at high altitude, whereas IA wants to hit targets below 6Km. So VL-SRSAM is based on Astra and QRSAM is a new design meant for low-altitude performance and a massive warhead.

How do you rate DRDO as a Defence research Organization?
Good/bad/OK
How often do they Reseach and develops critical technology on their own?
Because the way I see, DRDO do buy foreign IPs, Paints that as Indegenoiusly developed.

 

[randomradio]

How do you rate DRDO as a Defence research Organization?
Good/bad/OK
How often do they Reseach and develops critical technology on their own?
Because the way I see, DRDO do buy foreign IPs, Paints that as Indegenoiusly developed.

Different departments have had different levels of success. Like missiles and electronics are good. Aircraft are okay. Ground-based vehicles are bad. Some of the army stuff ranges from bad to good, like artillery gun - good, rifles - bad, tank - okay. In 5 years, things should change.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Our contribution was peanuts. It's mostly their IP. It's no different from MKI.

Oh come on! Our contribution was the twin pulse motor while their contribution was airframe and electronics/seeker.

Israelis are clever, MRSAM is a joint DRDO and IAI venture, so if they export the Indian version, then the profit also has to be divided.

They just changed the aero(mid-body fins vs forward fins of the Indian version) and some electronics and sold it to Azerbaijan as Barak MX(8??) with 100% IP and profit.

But we Indians have also developed a local alternative which we shall export with 100% IP & profit aka Akash-NG.

 

[randomradio]

Oh come on! Our contribution was the twin pulse motor while their contribution was airframe and electronics/seeker.

Israelis are clever, MRSAM is a joint DRDO and IAI venture, so if they export the Indian version, then the profit also has to be divided.

They just changed the aero(mid-body fins vs forward fins of the Indian version) and some electronics and sold it to Azerbaijan as Barak MX(8??) with 100% IP and profit.

But we Indians have also developed a local alternative which we shall export with 100% IP & profit aka Akash-NG.

You forgot the radar, C&C etc, not just the missile.

 

[Rajput Lion]

You forgot the radar, C&C etc, not just the missile.

Yes, that's true but I was talking about the missile itself(since the discussion was about Barak 8 vs Barak MX)

And you compared MRSAM project with Su-30MKI program? Really?

You know it yourself that Su-30MKI was never about IP sharing(a big miss in my view) but TOT and customisation as per our needs.

On the contrary, MRSAM program wouldn't exist without DRDO sharing its twin pulse tech with IAI and we own 50% IP of the project. So any export of MRSAM would mean 50% profit sharing between IAI and DRDO.

No comparision with Su-30MKI programme whatsoever.

 

[randomradio]

Yes, that's true but I was talking about the missile itself(since the discussion was about Barak 8 vs Barak MX)

And you compared MRSAM project with Su-30MKI program? Really?

You know it yourself that Su-30MKI was never about IP sharing(a big miss in my view) but TOT and customisation as per our needs.

On the contrary, MRSAM program wouldn't exist without DRDO sharing its twin pulse tech with IAI and we own 50% IP of the project. So any export of MRSAM would mean 50% profit sharing between IAI and DRDO.

No comparision with Su-30MKI programme whatsoever.

Can't be compared with Brahmos either.

 

[Ashwin]

On the contrary, MRSAM program wouldn't exist without DRDO sharing its twin pulse tech with IAI and we own 50% IP of the project. So any export of MRSAM would mean 50% profit sharing between IAI and DRDO.

Not true, DRDO was a risk sharing partner. Without DRDO, IAI would have made everything themselves but it would have been commercially risky. By partnering they got guaranteed initial customers. We still import most of the parts from them while they don't for their version.

 

[Fatalis]

As I said, we paid for Indian version of their missile. And also to learn and absorb some critical technologies which we were not able to develop on our own at that time. It is a win- win for us. Now, we have a second tri-service missile after Brahmos. The missile and it's components are fully customized for Indian Armed Forces. We are its sole operator and we are also working on many derivative programs.

IMO, the original Barak-8 missile nomenclature is gone. Now, there are two family of missiles from that program: Barak-MX family and MRSAM family. I can say MRSAM is our own missile, they can do whatever they want with their Barak-MX family.

 

[Fatalis]