Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates
- Thread starter Shashank
- Start date
Bhutan snubbed China's claim. Can China not understand that it is biting off hell lot more than it can chew?
HQ9,most probably they will be close to their airbases and supply routes
If these yellow dots are correct, then I was right about them holding on heights and features for the domination. They won't move from there, and this is why they are building bases close to the forward positions, LOC type.
Any other option? They can observe everything every movement from those heights.
In my opinion, when china will convince that India will not back down, they will come to negotiation table. In my opinion, china will not fight. Their army is not capable. Lost of war against India will hurt Xi very badly. If china looses, Xi's career is over. He may end in Hail as well.
Sir,
What According to you will he right planes for India. Rafale, LCA or F35 or anything else?
Rafale and LCA is good numbers to replace our prehistoric Mig21s with future development of AMCA. Definitely not F35 or anything American and we won't have full control over its use.
This is my opinion though.
LCA is a light interceptor ( already Indigenous, to replace mig 21): already deployed in short numbers
Rafale is a multirole MWF : Indigenous one will MK2 : dont see it coming before 2030
F35 is a stealth with STOVL: Indigenous will be AMCA ( 6th gen) : dont see it coming before 2040
All of them are with different roles and technology.
India needs all of them, priority is to build at home, which I don't see happening for next 20 years due to lack of turbine tech.
http://****/america-stands-with-india-against-chinas-aggression-prominent-senator/#more-230360
America Stands With India Against China’s Aggression: Prominent Senator
Published July 4, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: PTI
An influential American Senator on Friday said that the US stands with India against the Chinese aggression in eastern Ladakh along the Line of Actual Control, commending the Indian government for the continued efforts to negotiate a peaceful resolution to the boundary issue. Republican Senator Rick Scott, in a letter dated July 2 to Prime Minister Narendra Modi, expressed his condolences on the loss of lives of 20 Indian soldiers in the Galwan Valley.
“The United States stands with India as you fight against the Communist China’s aggression and I commend your continued efforts to negotiate a peaceful resolution,” Mr Scott said in the letter tweeted on Friday. “Unfortunately, we know Communist China never lives up to its commitments. The tyrants of Communist China continue to steal technology and refuse to open their markets to foreign goods as required by their agreement to be part of the World Trade Organisation,” he wrote.
China, he alleged, continues to attack religious freedom by detaining more than one million Uyghurs in internment and reeducation camps and have not lived up to the agreement to give Hong Kong autonomy and freedom, he said.
Mr Scott said that China is militarising the South China Sea, even though it had promised former president Barack Obama not to do it, and now it continues to try to assert its military dominance in its quest for world dominance.
“Communist China believes that in order for them to be strong, America, India and other freedom loving countries must be weaker. They are cracking down on freedom and autonomy in Hong Kong, and continue to threaten Taiwan and India,” he said.
If it continues down this path, Communist China’s neighbours will have no choice but to treat it as a serious threat that uses military force against peaceful democratic powers, he wrote in the letter.
“As you continue to stand against Communist China and General Secretary of the Communist Party Xi (Jinping), I want to offer help in any way I can to the Republic of India, the world’s largest democracy and our ally. The United States will always defend our allies and those fighting for freedom,”
Scott added. The Indian and Chinese armies are locked in a bitter standoff in multiple locations in eastern Ladakh for the last seven weeks. The tension escalated manifold after 20 Indian soldiers were killed in a violent clash in Galwan Valley on June 15. The Chinese side also suffered casualties but it is yet to give out the details.
Not everyone who's clever wants to be in MENSA. It's not like it pays. It's like asking why some of the world's fastest runners are in NFL and not the Olympics duh.
Hardly anybody was under that illusion though.
Nah, it's more about the visible. Being British and of Irish or other caucasian descent isn't visible, so it doesn't count.
We know that's a lie. Guynextdoor outed you before you had him banned.
They're got extra ones, that's what happened and now NATO navies are policing that strait. Meanwhile, what's happening with China who are relentlessly buggering you?
@_Anonymous_ @BMD
Please spare this thread, I can see you are investing so much of time in writing up long responses to belittle each other, for us it will be few click and a minute to waste all your efforts. So please value your time and move out to chit chat forum.
Please spare this thread, I can see you are investing so much of time in writing up long responses to belittle each other, for us it will be few click and a minute to waste all your efforts. So please value your time and move out to chit chat forum.
Yes. He uses that term as a person resigned to his fate not as an ex CoAS confident in the abilities of the force he once commanded.
You seem to have interpreted his statement as a sign of wisdom.
We will never have exhausted our options. We can keep sitting on the LAC - 24x7 indulging in negotiations from here to eternity. In modern day study of diplomacy & military strategies it's called sitzkreig or The Phoney War.
You mean just like we sanctioned Pakistan. They're still around, in case you haven't noticed with diminished capacities mostly of their own doing rather than as an after effect of our diplomatic sanctions & that of others with still enough bite to cause us grievous harm should they choose to confident in the ability to survive the aftermath of our assaults coz of our past history of fair treatment with them .
What you & most others fail to factor in when you talk of capacities & the level of technological sophistication of the Chinese vis a vis us, is neglecting the fact that it's the Chinese who've been agressors all through the past 70 years of their existence as a modern nation state. Look up on the history of their conflicts with their neighbors & show me one instance where one of their neighbors had initiated the conflict against China.
What this in turn means is that no other nation claims territory occupied by China whereas the opposite is not true. Elaborating on this topic further, what it also means is that China can deploy nearly it's entire military capacities against any state in it's neighborhood should it choose to do so with little fear of any of it's other neighbors moving in to take advantage of China's pre occupation. Are we confident of getting the US to launch some sort of a distraction off their eastern coast ? Would the quad stick their neck out on this one? The answer is an obvious NO. In bold letters & Capitals. The support of our friends & allies will be limited to intelligence & selected arms & ammo plus selected platforms .
Now, to come back to the full spectrum of what the Chinese can deploy against us on the LAC, you can bring in technicalities like acclimatization of their troops, lack of AF bases etc in TAR or the WTC at large but that didn't prevent the Chinese from initiating what they did in the present on the LAC & catching us almost with our pants down. In 3 years, assuming we sort this one out without a shot being fired, they'd be even more formidable.
You assumptions that our prowess will see an exponential uplift vis a vis the Chinese whereas theirs is going to remain static under the present circumstances is taken with a pinch of salt .
True.Already answered part of this above.
To elaborate - Those were different times. This is a different time. China was bargaining for time. We misunderstood their true intentions & eventually lulled ourselves into self delusion by thinking we could either keep up the charade of negotiations by wearing them down or that we could manage the problem or a combination of both instead of single mindedly focusing on building up capacities & sorting out Pakistan once & for all we let ourself be distracted. The result is before you.
Answered this one too . Scroll above.
So it's obvious we need to fix our economy and go back in the black before playing with guns. The Chinese are in the same boat. Even they are facing the grimm prospects of negative GDP growth and even they are not looking at fighting anywhere. It's not "rapid".
GDP grew by -6.8% y/y in Q1 and -9.8% q/q, the first ever negative figure since the start of the Economic Reform in 1978.
Right now & even after we emerge from the pandemic they'd be in a better economical situation than us. You don't need forecasts for that or if you do, pls check on what the IMF has forecasted for the Indian & Chinese economies for this fiscal.
I don't know what are you on about. You've taken my comment, labelled it sarcasm & then gone on to construct an argument on its basis. What's wrong with you ? Are you missing the forest for the trees?
Applies to those who are initiating. Assuming we solve this one In a few months peacefully ( which I don't even think is a pipe dream) & if we enhance our capacities in 3 years as you love to keep crowing every damn opportunity you get, are you suggesting we would move into Aksai Chin on our own volition in 3 years time. See what I mean? All those aphorisms are applicable to the aggessors not necessarily for the defenders or sometimes not at all.
This is precisely what I've been advocating. We ought to fight them now or in a few months. Our definition of a victory ought to be borrowed from the PA which means holding our line at all costs across the LAC as a worst case scenario & pushing them beyond the Karakorum in the best case scenario.
If we give them a bloody nose now they won't be back in 3 years or later. For if we don't & keep pressing our claim by sitting it out on the LAC, indulging in what I term sitzkreig, they'd be back in 3 years or before with more swag & confidence with better planning & more troops, sophisticated platforms, weapons etc to push harder & we'd be ruing why we didn't do what we will do then, 3 years ago.
Hahaha.
O future fellow of ORF, Stimpson Centre, RAND Corp, etc , since it's been established we have a resident world class geo strategist par excellence in our midst insane optimism not withstanding , pls do inform us lesser mortals how do you see this present crisis ending? For the likes of you, This should be a cinch.
We will never be ready with our modernisation. There will always be something better & bigger we could have got. In the end you fight with what you have. Had the Viet Cong or the Afghan Mujahideen or the FLN thought the way you do there'd be no independent Vietnam or Algeria & the SU would still be in Afghanistan. As they say, Hitler should have been stopped in Czechoslovakia. Instead he got a peace deal with Chamberlain - the appeaser.
Point well taken but he started out with the insults. Besides, are you going to deny poor old Paddy his little little pleasures in his old age in the midst of a lockdown. Where's your humanity?
That's your ignorance talking.
So? The US sanctioned North Korea and Iran, for decades. Both exist. Such a pointless point.
I've already pointed out we don't have any allies. India has no need for other countries attacking China elsewhere.
As for the "entire military capacities" bit, you have no clue at all. Haven't you seen the movie 300? Your army's operation is restricted to within the space it has access to. You can't operate 2000 tanks in an area that can handle only 100. You can't bring 1000 fighter jets in an air space that can handle only 50. You can't put 100 people in a football field and expect them to play.
Their military superiority elsewhere makes no difference to the Ladakh region. And in terms of numbers, we can match it anyway.
Look at the attachment below.
The large circle is the effective operational radius of a Rafale/MKI for air defence. The smaller circles are the effective engagement range of either aircraft during air combat with just their older missiles. Just 2 groups of 2 aircraft each are enough to dominate the entire Ladakh sector.
Please tell me what numbers will do in this case?
Nope, they won't be anymore formidable than they are now. Their current gen modernisation has peaked. They need a new generation to move up the value chain, and that's going to take them 10 years. Which is actually when China is being considered to become an actual military threat by experts. In 3 years, they will only have more of the same that they have today, mostly more advanced iterations of what they have developed since the 2000s, all those stuff that end with Cs and Ds, like a J-11D, a J-10C etc. Or HQ-9C or HQ-16C or HQ-17C etc. Their next gen systems that end with A, like J-31A, J-20A etc are a long ways away from becoming a threat.
Otoh, we are making that next gen change, which China is expected to do many years later, right now, within the next 3 years.
You missed the point entirely, which even the good general has tried to explain. We need time. The more time we get, the better position we will be in. It doesn't matter if it's 3 years or 10 years.
But this is merely very limited action, not a war, meant to hold our line. Right now the focus is on talks and building up our capability to do just that during those talks. But the objective will be very limited if we do fight and will mainly be done to help in our negotiations.
Another option is to build up capability and start a proper limited war, take back Aksai Chin. Even the Chinese have taken a few years to prepare for whatever they are doing right now since Doklam.
We can do both and I am suggesting using both options, not just one over the other, as the situation develops. But I also need to point out that the first option can also fail to do anything. So any proposal to escalate from that point will be extremely foolish with our current inventory. This capacity can be built up while we waste time talking and a breakdown in negotiations will result in a war. But such a build up can take years and so can the talks.
The French designed and built the Maginot Line over a period of 15 years anticipating a war with Germany. The Americans took more than a year to prepare to invade Iraq. If you believe the IA can dislodge the obviously prepared Chinese and even push them back to beyond the Karakoram range by preparing for just a few months, then you are dreaming.
