Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion

the average export price for the 299 Rafale aircraft sold in 2026 amounts to €228 million, ranging from €187 million for Indonesia to €267 million for India.''
Switzerland thought they can purchase 36 F-35, queen of simulators, 6.035 swiss francs billions, ie 7.4 USD billions.

Finally, the price would have been between 6.7 and 7.5 swiss francs billions, ie between 8.2 and 9.2 USD billions => unit price between 227 and 256 USD millions...

So they decided to purchase just 30, and even these 30 will be charged more than 6.035 SF billions..... so more than 247 USD million each.
 
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Did you not see the first sentence? You will need to work out apples to apples in what is being bought,
From Rafale F-35 comp, the Rafale was always dearer, EG Finland

As below, I'm quoting a frenchman for €267/ $295

Of course we all know what is under picoil's skin, The french have no money
F5, UAE pulled out and a €3.5 billion short fall, The F5 is currently unfunded and at best will be 2033, This date will probably not happen
FCAS, dead, the French have no money to do it themselves and are trying to get someone to pay the bill for them, no one is silly enough so far
They wanted Sweden to partner them, but Sweden is going with Germany, They know the French are losers and charge a lot
the French are saying ''Ultimately, the average export price for the 299 Rafale aircraft sold in 2026 amounts to €228 million, ranging from €187 million for Indonesia to €267 million for India.''
 
Switzerland thought they can purchase 36 F-35, queen of simulators, 6.035 swiss francs billions, ie 7.4 USD billions.

Finally, the price would have been between 6.7 and 7.5 swiss francs billions, ie between 8.2 and 9.2 USD billions => unit price between 227 and 256 USD millions...

So they decided to purchase just 30, and even these 30 will be charged more than 6.035 SF billions..... so more than 247 USD million each.
This is deliberately deceptive, some would say a lying POS
it has been explained to you,several times,

There are 2 main things, that all countries take into account, even when they buy Rafales from France

One is inflation, the original price is the cost of the F-35 in the year it was quoted, you need to add the inflation
The other is currency exchange, between USD and swiss franc
 
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You will need to work out apples to apples in what is being bought, but $247 is cheaper than what india paid, €267/ $295
Apple to appel ?

Switzerland used the stock of AMRAAM of the F/A18 fleet
Swiss f-35 are USAF models.
Switzerland intends to use Hangar Queen F-35 mainly in simulators, as suggested by LM, so no need of a deep support.

On the other hand India purchased an important weapon package, a 5 years full support (including Fuel) with a high guaranteed disponibility level. The price include the air base accomodation. The offset package is also important, increasing automatically the price.

So you're right, we are comparing a Fiat 500 and a Porsche GT3.
F5, UAE pulled out and a €3.5 billion short fall
It is the french part that doesn't agree with the UAE technological requests (on optronic and some other fields).
The financial gap is already plugged.
 
FCAS, dead,
A real blessing ! We will have our fine tune jet instead of a Frankenstein one (as Rafale versus EF2000).

The one who is in the worst situation is Germany : they may have some more money, but no engine on the horizon, and even if they enter in GCAP they will only have a tip up seat.
This is deliberately deceptive, some would say a lying POS
it has been explained to you,several times,

There are 2 main things, that all countries take into account, even when they buy Rafales from France

One is inflation, the original price is the cost of the F-35 in the year it was quoted, you need to add the inflation
The other is currency exchange, between USD and swiss franc
how many time between the tender and the order ? too few to see a high inflation in the bill.

Currency : see the evolution of the swiss franc vers USD....

Find something else my dear Kangaroo.
 
The financial gap is already plugged.
BS, put up a link saying F5 is fully funded, it's not even authorised

Dassault Aviation is preparing to develop the Rafale F5 standard CEO Eric Trappier said July 22. Although the French government has not yet authorized the program,
 
BS, put up a link saying F5 is fully funded, it's not even authorised

Dassault Aviation is preparing to develop the Rafale F5 standard CEO Eric Trappier said July 22. Although the French government has not yet authorized the program,
Don't worry : as F5 is essential for deterrence, money will be found.
BS, put up a link saying F5 is fully funded, it's not even authorised

Dassault Aviation is preparing to develop the Rafale F5 standard CEO Eric Trappier said July 22. Although the French government has not yet authorized the program,
It is funded thanks to the postpone of last F4 units for France (probably allowing Ukraine to be delivered... ) to jump immediatly in F5.
 

Thirty Years and $2 Trillion Into the F-35 Program, the Fleet Is Fully Mission-Capable About a Quarter of the Time

Six F-35Bs arrived at the Marine Corps carrying ballast where their radars should have been, because the new APG-85 was not available. They can fly. They cannot conduct combat training or missions. That is the F-35 program at thirty years and a life-cycle estimate above $2 trillion: a fleet that is fully mission-capable about a quarter of the time, a modernization package five years late, 110 aircraft delivered in 2024 with every one late by an average of 238 days, and an aircraft whose complete upgrade consumes all 32 kilowatts of cooling it has, against a forward requirement of 62 to 80.

Nearly 30 Years Into the F-35 Program, Three Problems Still Define Its $2 Trillion Future: The Joint Strike Fighter program began in November 1996. By July 31, 2026, it had been underway for almost 30 years. The Pentagon plans to buy 2,470 U.S. aircraft, and the Government Accountability Office estimates that acquisition and sustainment across the fleet’s 77-year life cycle will cost more than $2 trillion.

The F-35 has genuine strengths. Its low-observable design, sensor fusion, and networking give U.S. and allied forces a penetrating aircraft capable of finding targets and sharing data in heavily defended airspace. The Pentagon still has to keep enough jets ready and modernize them before the aircraft’s original hardware reaches its limits.

The latest readiness data provide the sharpest warning. GAO reported in June 2026 that the fleet-wide mission-capable rate fell from 67 percent in fiscal 2021 to 44 percent in fiscal 2025. The full mission-capable rate, measuring the share of time a jet was able to perform every assigned mission, fell from 38 percent to 25 percent.

As of July 31, 2026, three problems stand above the rest: a sustainment system that has not kept pace with fleet growth, a Block 4 modernization effort trapped by software and testing delays, and an engine-and-cooling architecture with almost no margin for the capabilities planned in the 2030s.

F-35 Readiness Fell as the U.S. Fleet Passed 800 Aircraft

The readiness decline does not trace to one defective component. Air Force officials cited newly accepted aircraft limited by software, scarce spare parts, and corrosion inspections and repairs. The result was a force in which the fleet was fully mission-capable only about one-quarter of the time during fiscal 2025, even as the U.S. inventory surpassed 800 aircraft.

The Joint Program Office now proposes a major sustainment reset through fiscal 2031. The plan requires $13.7 billion beyond previous projections, with more than $7 billion dependent on the industry delivering additional parts and materials. GAO found continuing capacity constraints for key items and projected that the services will face an annual sustainment gap above $1 billion by the mid-2030s.

Program Executive Officer Lt. Gen. Gregory Masiello told the Senate in June that the current support structure was built for 700 to 800 aircraft and now serves more than 1,300 accepted F-35s worldwide. That is the underlying readiness problem: procurement expanded faster than depots, repair capacity, spare inventories, and government access to technical data.

Masiello did not dispute GAO’s calculation, but said the Joint Program Office’s current figure placed mission-capable performance at 56 percent. That higher figure does not erase the five-year decline or the decision to launch a multibillion-dollar sustainment reset.

Combat units often post stronger readiness when parts, maintainers, and contractor support are concentrated for a deployment. A global fleet cannot treat every squadron as a surge operation. Routine readiness has to cover training units, test squadrons, home stations, and deployed forces without stripping one group to support another.

Block 4 Is Five Years Late and Still Waiting on Stable Software

Block 4 is intended to add weapons, electronic warfare improvements, radar enhancements, and communications upgrades needed against changing threats. GAO placed the effort at $16.5 billion as of 2021, more than 50 percent above its original baseline. The Pentagon has since reduced the package and moved completion to 2031 at the earliest, five years beyond the original schedule.

Technology Refresh 3, or TR-3, is the $1.9 billion computing and memory foundation for much of Block 4. Its hardware and software delays drove late production deliveries. Lockheed Martin delivered 110 aircraft in 2024, and every one arrived late by an average of 238 days.

The software problem continued after deliveries resumed. The Pentagon’s operational-test office found that the latest TR-3 software was unsuitable for dedicated testing, while the final software planned for older TR-2 aircraft was largely unusable for much of fiscal 2025 because of instability, missing capability, and newly discovered defects. No new combat capability was fielded during that fiscal year.

Masiello told senators on June 23 that 22 original Block 4 requirements had been fielded, including seven in the previous software release, with six more planned for summer 2026. The hearing also showed the limiting factor behind the software delays: integration and test capacity has not kept pace with the volume and complexity of code. The operational-test force still lacks enough properly configured aircraft and simulation equipment to test representative formations on schedule.

The hardware delay is also reaching finished aircraft. The Marine Corps accepted six F-35Bs with ballast instead of radars because the new APG-85 was unavailable. Those jets support basic flying but cannot conduct combat training or missions until their radars are installed.

The F-35 Is Running Out of Power and Cooling Margin

New processors, radars, and electronic-warfare systems draw electricity and produce heat. During the June Senate hearing, Masiello said the complete Block 4 configuration consumes the aircraft’s available 32 kilowatts of cooling capacity, leaving no margin. The program’s forward requirement is between 62 and 80 kilowatts.

The shortfall has been known since 2008. The current engine has to work harder to extract power and reject heat, reducing component life. GAO estimated that the resulting wear has added $38 billion to projected life-cycle costs. The limitation also pushes some capabilities beyond the reduced Block 4 package because the aircraft lacks the power and cooling to support them.

The Pentagon chose an Engine Core Upgrade for the existing F135 rather than a new adaptive engine. The upgrade is meant to restore engine life and provide additional power, but it supplies only part of the cooling increase. A separate power-and-thermal-management upgrade must handle the greater demand and later mission systems, an issue also driving the aircraft’s modernization bill.

The Engine Core Upgrade is scheduled to enter critical design review in August 2026, followed by ground testing in late 2027 and flight testing around 2030. Production is expected in 2031. GAO’s current schedule does not begin production of the larger power-and-thermal-management upgrade until 2033.
 
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