These things usually stay under the table and for a good reason
...Never said f35 is inferior. It's stealth and avionics are superior to every plane in the west though a pig kinematically..
Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning and F-22 'Raptor' : News & Discussion
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...Never said f35 is inferior. It's stealth and avionics are superior to every plane in the west though a pig kinematically..
In india, on each and every major defense purchase some random guys followed by politicians starts bribe/ corruption allegations. So as a tradition some members are accusing allegations in Swiss deal too.
So before this competition, both Bon Plan and Picdel and randomradio etc. said that this would be the litmus test, now it's simply another case of corruption. 
Clearly SPECTRA does not provide stealth after all.
Clearly SPECTRA does not provide stealth after all.
The thing is that type of bribe is actually quite common in the west. Google the word "lobbying"..
It's only me claiming corruption..The Frenchies are quite silent..So before this competition, both Bon Plan and Picdel and randomradio etc. said that this would be the litmus test, now it's simply another case of corruption.
Clearly SPECTRA does not provide stealth after all.
Looks like you are paid by Dassault.The thing is that type of bribe is actually quite common in the west. Google the word "lobbying"..
It's only me claiming corruption..The Frenchies are quite silent..
I mean hired to do lobbying.
Why do you talking like a looser here ? You don’t have any skin in this game. Why this bitching and allegations. It’s same as people saying IAF top brass took bribes to choose Rafale.
Personally speaking , I don't think there was any corruption or lobbying as you put it , involved . There could be pressure from the US but then France could also be accused of the same .The thing is that type of bribe is actually quite common in the west. Google the word "lobbying"..
It's only me claiming corruption..The Frenchies are quite silent..
French influence and Euro really doesn't stand infront of the power of American $ at the end of the day. All of them bribe but it's called lobbying. My whole point was that f35 is the best deal for the swiss. The swiss officials get good money a capable aircraft they transfer their American weapons used on the f18 & F5. The only thing might be that the bribing jibe might have irked a few people here..
You are talking about a nation named Switzerland. That country gives damn about any sort of political pressure.
Influence and political pressure have a different meaning. SoKo experiences political pressure. Swiss otoh...
So before this competition, both Bon Plan and Picdel and randomradio etc. said that this would be the litmus test, now it's simply another case of corruption.
Clearly SPECTRA does not provide stealth after all.
Not really. I don't believe corruption was involved, but I do believe the final selection came down to costs, and I had already pointed out before that if upfront costs were considered then the F-35 would win this easily. So I don't believe this was a political choice as well. The same with the Patriot, it's obviously cheaper than European solutions.
The F-35 made the shortlist, and it won based on its future upfront costs vs the more expensive Eurocanards with their more expensive euros directly giving the Americans a near 20%+ price advantage by default. Had they considered the F-35 based on its existing capability and costs, or even LCC, things would have been different.
And then they equated simulator experience with real flying experience, which is just the wrong way to go about it. Especially given by their own admission that the F-35 will fly 50% less sorties during training compared to older jets. So the Americans gave themselves a 25% cost advantage in terms of sustainment costs right there. Combine that with the 20% exchange rate difference, that's too much of a price advantage. None of this proves the F-35 is cheaper. It's just messing around with flight hours and a weaker dollar.
Then there's still the question of whether the French entered the race with the F3R or F4.1 or F4.2, because it's 4.2 that's coming with all the next gen goodies. 4.1 is just a software upgrade with core systems left largely untouched, maybe some upgrades. @Picdelamirand-oil claims the F4.2 will be ready in the 2024-25 period, but I don't think it's that simple since the French themselves will induct it in 2027. Until then, the F4.2 is a theoretical pie in the sky and wouldn't have been available for operational testing in the same timeframe as the Swiss evaluations, which called for jets that are operational. If it's the F3R/F4.1, then I have no qualms in claiming it's inferior to the F-35.
Finally, we need to actually see where the F-35 got its additional tech points. In terms of sensor range, both RBE-2AA and DDM-NG, the F-35 will surpass the Rafale, especially so with TR3 with its computer upgrade. The cockpit of the F-35 is obviously superior to the current Rafale's, especially the HMDS, should be the case even with F4.1 since they say no significant changes are expected there. The F-35's internal fuel load is superior thereby giving it more range. Its other relevant performances like climb and STR should be more or less the same. Most of the supersonic capabilities where other aircraft excel in is needed for major air forces, so its largely irrelevant to Switzerland, I've touched upon this already. The Swiss should be fine with a minute or two long dash speed and the F-35 should comfortably manage that up to mach 1.6. The simulator would have been given a retarded amount of points simply because they have decided it can eliminate 25% of a jet's flight hours. Worst case, the Swiss tested the F3R. 'Cause the F4.1 flew for the first time only last month, not in time for the Swiss evaluations.
Anyway, a lot more capabilities will be important for Finland. But they will need to consider the paper capabilities of the F4.2.
From India's perspective, we need to see how far apart the Rafale F4.2 and F-35 are. Hopefully Finland will answer that.
You're trying to hard and it's not making you look good. When Block 4 and 4+ comes out it will outclass any Rafail in F4.2.
The dash speed for the F-35 was already explained but you got your head buried deep up your rosebud because the truth doesn't fit your delusional narrative. It's the F-35C and F-35B that have been given restrictions during PEACETIME not the F-35A. F-35C and F-35B's restriction can be canceled at any time.
"Head buried deep up your rosebud."
Didn't have a belly laugh this deep for a long long time .
Didn't have a belly laugh this deep for a long long time .
Yes, it was me. I was implicitly asking you to check with your mother.
You Americans are so dumb that we have to explain our insults.
Take it easy on them, they're having a hard week, they lost the Swiss bid and they just got knocked out of the European Cup. And guess who knocked them out? Switzerland!Now that I think about it. Our french posters have been incredibly silent these few days since the entry of the f35 shill
Frankly Paddy , I don't see why're you orgasmic ? The Rafale may have lost but it's not as if the Eurofighter won , is it ? Why're you so thrilled ?Take it easy on them, they're having a hard week, they lost the Swiss bid and they just got knocked out of the European Cup. And guess who knocked them out? Switzerland!
Something called external stores drag + weight, plus percentage additional weight of weapons and stores and BPR.