Our IL-76 are ancient and need upgrades.
Our IL-78 are not old enough yet. Why will we upgrade the IL-78? They are only going to undergo overhaul for now.
Our IL-76 are ancient and need upgrades.
Our IL-78 are not old enough yet. Why will we upgrade the IL-78? They are only going to undergo overhaul for now.
I don't agree with it either. But if it works, it works.
The IAF has a separate requirement for dedicated tankers, 6 of them, but that's not gone anywhere to date. The IAF is fine with even 2nd hand tankers if the service life is 40 years.
Both are old and DAC cleared upgrade for both. Getting PS-90 engine.
Upgraded Il-76MD-M Airlifter Makes First Flight in Russia
Indian Air Force may lease aerial refuelling tanker craft
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is considering, for the first time, leasing aerial refuelling tanker aircraft to extend the reach of its fighter jets instead of a direct purchase against the backdrop of previous failed attempts to buy new tankers, two officers familiar with the move said on Sunday on condition of anonymity.
The doors to leasing military hardware were opened for the first time last week with the government unveiling a draft policy on arms acquisition that allows the armed forces to go in for leased capability to cut down on costs associated with purchasing weapons and systems.
“The IAF has made two attempts to buy tankers during the last decade-and-a-half. On both occasions, we were close to signing the deal but things fell through because of the high acquisition cost. Leasing is a good option to fill the capability gap,” said one of the officers cited above.
The IAF operates a fleet of six Russian-origin Ilyushin-78 tankers that are plagued by maintenance problems and the force urgently needs at least six more.
“We are finalising the requirements for the proposed lease of tankers to boost our in-flight refuelling capabilities. We are looking at aspects such as whether we should opt for a wet [the lessor provides crew and maintenance] or dry lease. Leasing will be a better option as our budget is under pressure,” said a second officer.
Leasing has been introduced in the draft Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP)-2020 as a new category for acquisition in addition to the existing ‘Buy’ and ‘Make’ categories in order to substitute huge initial capital outlays with periodical rental payments.
Leasing is permitted in two categories—where the lessor is an Indian entity and is the owner of the assets and where the lessor is a global entity. The provision of leasing in the draft DPP governs military equipment that is not deployed during the war—transport fleets, trainers and simulators.
“Tankers are a force multiplier and the IAF has been pressing for more inductions for the past 15 years. Finance has been and still is the issue. Leasing is a good option. It will save the flying hours of the IAF-owned aerial refuelling tanker aircraft for wars, with the leased ones doing the very substantial task of training and long ferries for exercises abroad,” said Air Vice Marshal (retired) Manmohan Bahadur, additional director general, Centre for Air Power Studies.
According to an August 2017 Comptroller and Auditor General of India report, the desired serviceability of the Il-78 fleet should have been 70% by the IAF’s own standards but it stood at 49% during 2010-16—barely half of the planes were available for missions at any given time during that period.
American (Boeing KC-46A), Russian (Il-78) and European (A330 MRTT) military contractors were expecting the IAF to float a global tender for more tankers. Israel Aerospace Industries’ Bedek Aviation Group was also looking at participating in the contest with its Boeing 767-200 multi-mission tanker transport—a conversion of the Boeing aircraft by Bedek Aviation.
The Indian Air Force (IAF) is considering, for the first time, leasing aerial refuelling tanker aircraft to extend the reach of its fighter jets instead of a direct purchase against the backdrop of previous failed attempts to buy new tankers, two officers familiar with the move said on Sunday on condition of anonymity.
The doors to leasing military hardware were opened for the first time last week with the government unveiling a draft policy on arms acquisition that allows the armed forces to go in for leased capability to cut down on costs associated with purchasing weapons and systems.
“The IAF has made two attempts to buy tankers during the last decade-and-a-half. On both occasions, we were close to signing the deal but things fell through because of the high acquisition cost. Leasing is a good option to fill the capability gap,” said one of the officers cited above.
The IAF operates a fleet of six Russian-origin Ilyushin-78 tankers that are plagued by maintenance problems and the force urgently needs at least six more.
“We are finalising the requirements for the proposed lease of tankers to boost our in-flight refuelling capabilities. We are looking at aspects such as whether we should opt for a wet [the lessor provides crew and maintenance] or dry lease. Leasing will be a better option as our budget is under pressure,” said a second officer.
Leasing has been introduced in the draft Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP)-2020 as a new category for acquisition in addition to the existing ‘Buy’ and ‘Make’ categories in order to substitute huge initial capital outlays with periodical rental payments.
Leasing is permitted in two categories—where the lessor is an Indian entity and is the owner of the assets and where the lessor is a global entity. The provision of leasing in the draft DPP governs military equipment that is not deployed during the war—transport fleets, trainers and simulators.
“Tankers are a force multiplier and the IAF has been pressing for more inductions for the past 15 years. Finance has been and still is the issue. Leasing is a good option. It will save the flying hours of the IAF-owned aerial refuelling tanker aircraft for wars, with the leased ones doing the very substantial task of training and long ferries for exercises abroad,” said Air Vice Marshal (retired) Manmohan Bahadur, additional director general, Centre for Air Power Studies.
According to an August 2017 Comptroller and Auditor General of India report, the desired serviceability of the Il-78 fleet should have been 70% by the IAF’s own standards but it stood at 49% during 2010-16—barely half of the planes were available for missions at any given time during that period.
American (Boeing KC-46A), Russian (Il-78) and European (A330 MRTT) military contractors were expecting the IAF to float a global tender for more tankers. Israel Aerospace Industries’ Bedek Aviation Group was also looking at participating in the contest with its Boeing 767-200 multi-mission tanker transport—a conversion of the Boeing aircraft by Bedek Aviation.
IAI Adds Boom to 767 Tanker Conversion
Tanker conversation and lease would be the least expensive option.
Tanker conversation and lease would be the least expensive option.
Why not go in for obsolete AI planes - Boeing or Airbus & convert them into tankers or sound out Indigo? The latter have made procuring new AC & leasing them out into a cottage industry.
IAF is willing to buy second hand planes if they have a life of at least 30 years. But now they can't afford this as well.
Then the best option is Indigo. Sound them out for a lease. Go in for a nomination based tender. Get them to tie up with the Israeli firm for special fitments.
The US has lots of KC135 lying around, why not re-engine them with newer engines and press them into IAF service.
Its going to be a disaster if you ask me. We can acquire and convert old A330-300 for this role as the Australians have done using the facilities of Quantas. Old A330s have fuel piping for the third and fourthengine as the wing was same for 330 and 340. We can put the refueling probes in those points and the wing is also strong enough to support a much lighter refueling probe compared to an engine.
We also do not need to buy new A330s for AWACS. Old A340-500ELR are far better suited with a nearly 24 hr endurance. The airframes will come very cheap and can be easily converted to AWACS role. With four engines, they have more than required electrical power available for any equipment that you may need to fit into an AWACS.
Can't do that without Airbus involvement. And we have to use their tech.
Our only option is to get a private company to buy either the Boeing/Airbus refuelers or buy the new Russian IL-476 based refueler. Both have different design philosophies. When not used as a refueler, the Boeing/Airbus options can be used to ferry passengers whereas the IL-476 can be used to haul cargo. Both secondary options are of use to the IAF.
This modification jumla will not work out, especially when we do not plan on operating a lot of them in the first place. IAF only wants 6. Any successful refueler project needs dozens of orders.
Best option is to buy 2nd hand Il76s from Russian reserves, refurbish them with new engines, cockpit etc and induct them.
Else if serviceability is actually a problem. Go the Australian way. Hire private airrefueling services from any US based contractor, they have 707s and MD10s with them for the interim and then make a choice betweem A330 or B767 for the future.
Else stick to Il76 platform if the serviceability after 2016-2019 has seen a improvement. As with C17 production closed. In the future when we have to buy heavy lifters, it will provide us comman aircraft reducing stress on supplies.
Else if serviceability is actually a problem. Go the Australian way. Hire private airrefueling services from any US based contractor, they have 707s and MD10s with them for the interim and then make a choice betweem A330 or B767 for the future.
Else stick to Il76 platform if the serviceability after 2016-2019 has seen a improvement. As with C17 production closed. In the future when we have to buy heavy lifters, it will provide us comman aircraft reducing stress on supplies.
Well, Indigo is already buying from Airbus in huge quantities. I don't see what's the issue here. The MoD can work out a scheme where in they commit to leasing 12-18 such tankers for an extended period of time with the option of buying it out. Scope for leasing out and / or becoming a lessee of such critical ancillary equipment is tremendous.
Marta kya na karta. They've started operations with their first A-320 narrow body AC in 2006 which they'd be phasing out in 2022. I expect them to have another 15-20 years of life in the airframe post an MLU & modification. Unless you are better in the art of jugaad.
The problem is that unlike buying/leasing a 707, 767, C130 or Il76 platform , there is no ready made conversion solution available for the A320.
There will be development costs involved and will take time...
Rest arguments about the advantages of doing so is fine.
How long does it take to develop such a module & what are the costs attached to it?
Jet airways has 8 A330 in their fleet. They can be used as aerial refuelers, also modification costs would be low as A330 MRTT is alrrady available as baseline.