Mid Air Refueling Tanker : Updates & Discussions

Fatalis said:
From what I read, the USAF is going for 27 E-7A Wedgetail AWACS which will replace the E-3 Sentry. The satellite based radar system will most probably work in conjugation with the AWACS.
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It's part of their "we screwed up" program. Their original plan was the E-3 will be upgraded and will be available until 2035, in time for the constellation to be ready. They had to change the plan when they realized the E-3 can't reliably fly that long, especially in the much more hostile environment of the West Pacific. So the E-7A will bridge the gap between the E-3's demise and the arrival of satellites, which is only expected to start from 2030. It's unknown when a global constellation will be ready, but once it's ready, most of these jets will become pointless.

The E-7 wasn't an air force program, Boeing developed it for the export market. The USAF became so desperate that they had to improvise by buying existing tech. This urgency is being seen in all services. If they had planned for it, we would have seen a more robust design based around more radars with a proper 360 deg capability on a much larger airframe.

The E-7's 737 has an MTOW of just around 80T versus 240T of the A330 or 160T of the E-3. For their own program, they would have chosen the 250T 787 or 300T 777 instead, or at least a 767 (200T).

Even the IAF has currently chosen a narrow-body design with limited capabilities, like the USAF. Otoh, Air India One is based on the 777-ER, which weighs 350T.
 
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randomradio said:
It's part of their "we screwed up" program. Their original plan was the E-3 will be upgraded and will be available until 2035, in time for the constellation to be ready. They had to change the plan when they realized the E-3 can't reliably fly that long, especially in the much more hostile environment of the West Pacific. So the E-7A will bridge the gap between the E-3's demise and the arrival of satellites, which is only expected to start from 2030. It's unknown when a global constellation will be ready, but once it's ready, most of these jets will become pointless.

The E-7 wasn't an air force program, Boeing developed it for the export market. The USAF became so desperate that they had to improvise by buying existing tech. This urgency is being seen in all services. If they had planned for it, we would have seen a more robust design based around more radars with a proper 360 deg capability on a much larger airframe.

The E-7's 737 has an MTOW of just around 80T versus 240T of the A330 or 160T of the E-3. For their own program, they would have chosen the 250T 787 or 300T 777 instead, or at least a 767 (200T).

Even the IAF has currently chosen a narrow-body design with limited capabilities, like the USAF. Otoh, Air India One is based on the 777-ER, which weighs 350T.
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They also believed that a networked team of F-35s has as much SA and data as an AWACS aka its substitute in hostile territory. Maybe they believed too much in F-35s capability, who knows?
 
KC-46A: 97T fuel
A330 MRTT: 111T fuel
Converted KC-767: 72T fuel
Il-78: 100T fuel

If we are supposed to procure pre-owned KC-767 and convert them in the refuellers then it doesn't make sense to procure A330 MRTT in the future. Better to go with KC-46 in future for better operations, maintenance and logistics.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
They also believed that a networked team of F-35s has as much SA and data as an AWACS aka its substitute in hostile territory. Maybe they believed too much in F-35s capability, who knows?
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The F-35 is excellent for passive localization when compared to AWACS, but its radar is not yet sufficient.
 
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Fatalis said:
KC-46A: 97T fuel
A330 MRTT: 111T fuel
Converted KC-767: 72T fuel
Il-78: 100T fuel

If we are supposed to procure pre-owned KC-767 and convert them in the refuellers then it doesn't make sense to procure A330 MRTT in the future. Better to go with KC-46 in future for better operations, maintenance and logistics.
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Nah, the A330 is still better. It's bigger and much more modern, it carries more cargo and is cheaper to operate. It also has better avionics. We don't need to have common airframes due to the sheer numbers available in the civilian space as well. If anything, a common A330 airframe for both refueller and AWACS will make more sense. After all, Netra Mk2 will also be based on an Airbus platform. The same with our SIGINT/COMINT aircraft.

Plus the KC-46A has been giving problems. The USAF is already planning a new competition 'cause it doesn't meet all requirements. And LM is planning to offer the A330 to the USAF.

You can see the massive capability difference it makes.
www.forbes.com

Top Five Reasons Lockheed Martin Believes It Can Beat Boeing In The Next Round Of Tanker Competition

Lockheed is convinced it has the best aerial refueler for changing times.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com

The first 3 comments are interesting.
www.quora.com

Which air refueling aircraft is better than the other, the Airbus A330 MRTT (KC-30A Voyager) or the Boeing KC-46A Pegasus?

Answer: At the moment the MRTT KC-30 because the KC-46 still has a lot of problems with the camera system during nighttime operations or when the sun is in a certain position it shines into the camera’s. When that is solved they would be fine, both of them. There is a difference in size and tha...
www.quora.com www.quora.com

The IAF is also gonna lease at least 1 A330 tanker, so it will eventually open up the gates for more tankers. We can then replace the IL-78 and second-hand B767 tankers with the American KC-Z stealth tanker after 2040.
 

MOD also signs a contract with Metrea Management for Wet Leasing of one Flight Refuelling Aircraft; To provide Air to Air refuelling training to pilots of Indian Air Force and Indian Navy​


Ministry of Defence also signed a contract with Metrea Management for Wet Leasing of one Flight Refuelling Aircraft (FRA) for providing Air to Air refuelling training to pilots of IAF and Indian Navy. Metrea will provide FRA (KC135 Aircraft) within six months which will be the first FRA to be wet leased by IAF.

image0028RIL.jpg
 
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A day will come, however, when Metrea’s fleet of Eisenhower-era KC-135s will be tough to operate, particularly as the plane becomes increasingly difficult to maintain due to diminishing sources for parts as the Air Force retires the fleet. At that point, the firm may have to pivot, Thomas acknowledged.

“The [KC-]135 ecosystem does exist. And actually, let’s be honest, the only way that it works for us is that there’s a larger ecosystem in which we operate,” he said.

“If there’s a day when the USAF isn’t operating KC-135s in quantity, we’ll have a hard choice to make as to what we’re going to do,” he continued. “But that day is like at least two decades away.”
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breakingdefense.com

How Metrea hopes to grow the private air refueling market - Breaking Defense

After refueling with the American company Metrea for a deployment to the Indo-Pacific, the German Luftwaffe told Breaking Defense that "commercial AAR [air-to-air refueling] is also a valid option for future deployments.”
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
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Indian Air Force to lease A330 MRTT from France

The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has approved the lease of a single Airbus A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) aircraft for the Bharatiya Vayu Sena (IAF, Indian Air Force) from the Armée de l'Air et de l'Espace (AAE, French Air and Space Force).

This three-year lease is intended to bolster the IAF’s aerial refueling capabilities, which are currently under strain due to serviceability issues with its fleet of six Ilyushin Il-78MKI Midas refueling aircraft.

Additionally, the lease will provide IAF personnel with the opportunity to gain operational experience on the A330MRTT. The exact date of the aircraft’s arrival in India has not yet been disclosed.

The agreement is structured as a government-to-government (G2G) wet lease, which will include French flight crew and maintenance support. It comes after nearly a decade of efforts by the IAF to modernize its tanker fleet. The A330MRTT had previously been selected as the preferred option in two separate procurement attempts, in 2009 and 2013. Both proposals were later cancelled by the MoD’s finance department due to high initial costs.

The wet lease is expected to be finalized during the 2025–2026 financial year. The IAF remains committed to its long-term plan of acquiring six A330MRTT aircraft.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
Indian Air Force to lease A330 MRTT from France

The Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has approved the lease of a single Airbus A330 Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) aircraft for the Bharatiya Vayu Sena (IAF, Indian Air Force) from the Armée de l'Air et de l'Espace (AAE, French Air and Space Force).

This three-year lease is intended to bolster the IAF’s aerial refueling capabilities, which are currently under strain due to serviceability issues with its fleet of six Ilyushin Il-78MKI Midas refueling aircraft.

Additionally, the lease will provide IAF personnel with the opportunity to gain operational experience on the A330MRTT. The exact date of the aircraft’s arrival in India has not yet been disclosed.

The agreement is structured as a government-to-government (G2G) wet lease, which will include French flight crew and maintenance support. It comes after nearly a decade of efforts by the IAF to modernize its tanker fleet. The A330MRTT had previously been selected as the preferred option in two separate procurement attempts, in 2009 and 2013. Both proposals were later cancelled by the MoD’s finance department due to high initial costs.

The wet lease is expected to be finalized during the 2025–2026 financial year. The IAF remains committed to its long-term plan of acquiring six A330MRTT aircraft.
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Mistake ?
 
They've probably decided upgrading/re-engining the existing IL-78s wasn't worth the cost. But weren't they considering converted B767 tanker transports from IAI too? Seems affordable enough even for tiny countries like Colombia.

The IAFs insistence on A330 MRTT is not going to fly with MoF as we've seen before.
 
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Metrea announced today it has been awarded an air-to-air refueling contract with the Indian Air Force.​


Photo of KC135 taken by Mark Chen, Permission Provided.

Metrea, a leading provider of commercial air-to-air refueling (AAR), today announced a contract with the Indian Air Force (IAF) to enhance IAF AAR training capabilities. Metrea will provide Flight Refueler Aircraft (FRA) based out of Indian Air Force Station Agra in Central India.

This comes after Metrea announced in July the acquisition of the French Air & Space Force C-135FR and KC-135RG tanker fleet, increasing their presence in the commercial AAR market by fourteen tankers from an initial four KC-135R tankers. Metrea’s fleet of 18 now stands as the world’s largest commercial aerial refueling fleet which eclipses all but four sovereign countries in terms of size and capability.

As the only company to own and operate a fleet of C-/KC-135 aircraft, Metrea offers an air-to-air refueling service that seamlessly, safely, and professionally integrates into military aviation training and operations. This new contract with India represents additional growth of the commercial AAR market beyond Metrea’s existing contract with the US Navy which already supports a large and growing list of US, allied, and partner air forces. The combined Metrea aviation units have flown over 130,000 hours, across multiple aircraft types, missions, and geographies in support of US, UK, and other allied and partner government national security objectives.

Metrea’s tanker aircraft are equipped with two wing-mounted Multi-Point Refueling System (MPRS) pods which facilitate refueling with probe equipped Navy, Marine Corps and partner nation aircraft.

“Metrea is honored to be working with the Indian Air Force. Our contract will quickly expand their AAR training capability and will facilitate extensive training, exercise, and movement opportunities to improve IAF readiness.” (James “Slim” Morgan – Head of Metrea Strategic Mobility)

About Metrea

Metrea is the leading provider of effects-as-a-service to national security partners across multiple domains and over a dozen mission-centric solution areas, including airborne ISR, aerial refueling, electronic warfare, secure communications, space-based ISR and advanced simulation.

Metrea is headquartered in Washington, DC with facilities across the United States, the United Kingdom, and the EU.
 
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