MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

[Picdelamirand-oil]

IAF WILL FOCUS ON RS 1.3 LAKH CRORE DEAL FOR 114 FIGHTER JETS​

NEW DELHI: With the deal for 83 TEJAS MK-1A aircraft set to be signed during upcoming Aero India, the Indian Air Force is now looking to focus on the multirole fighter aircraft project under which it is planning to acquire 114 combat aircraft expected to cost over Rs 1.3 lakh crore.

The Air Force had been undertaking one fighter aircraft project at a time and now its 83 TEJAS MK-1A fighters have been cleared by the Cabinet Committee on Security led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the Rs 50,000 crore deal is set to be signed in Bengaluru during Aero India.

"The 83 TEJAS would be replacing the four squadrons of the MiG-21 fighter jets which are set to be phased out in near future. The focus would now be on the 114 fighter jets project ," government sources told ANI.

The IAF has already issued the Request for Information for the tender and would be soon moving a proposal for getting the Acceptance of Necessity (AoN) before the Defence Ministry for the multi-billion dollar project which would enable it to acquire 4.5 plus generation aircraft in large numbers to match the capabilities of the omni role Rafale fighters 36 of which have started getting inducted from last year.

The Request for Information (RFI) has been responded to by several global players including fighter jet manufacturers from the US, France, Russia and Sweden.

While the Americans are offering from the F-15 Strike Eagle, F-18 Super Hornet and an F-16 variant by the name of F-21, the Russians are likely to offer the MiG-35 and a Sukhoi fighter. Sweden's Saab is looking to pitch in with its Gripen fighter aircraft which it says is far more advanced than the one which was offered in 2007 to the Indian Air Force. France would be participating in the tender with the Rafale fighter jets.

Recently, Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria had termed the Rafale as one of the strong contenders for the 114 fighter acquisition project.

Sources said that for selection in the project, the main aspects would be the capabilities of the aircraft on offer along with the price at which it is offered. The Indian Air Force is also developing the parameters on which it will select the fighters which would be both single-engine and double-engine and would create a level-playing field for them in the competition.

Whichever aircraft is selected by the Air Force would remain the mainstay of the force for almost next four decades and would be required to be fully integrated with the Su-30MKI fighters which would be the mainstay in terms of numbers as 272 of them would be inducted by next year.

The 114 aircraft would also be Made in India and the foreign firms would be required to do a transfer of technology to the Indian partner as part of government's initiative to create a strong domestic defence industry under the Atmanirbhar Bharat scheme.

Lagging behind the neighbours in terms of fighter aircraft inductions, the Indian Air Force has got deals for 119 of them in the last four years. While in September 2016, it signed a deal for 36 Rafale fighters, it would be signing the deal with a Public Sector Undertaking in next few days for 83 TEJAS MK-1A TEJAS fighters. In recent times, it has also operationalised two squadrons of the TEJAS MK-1.

 

[Saaho]

After chinese , India is considered a threat to US interests and as such they will never provide any technology that might be end up used against their allies say like pakistan.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You know what? US general population has better rifles, guns and ammunitions than entire Indian Army. A typical hunting section in walmart has more ammunition than entire norther command of Indian Army. And their guns work (judging how often the kill each other). Their guns are user friendly (judging by how often even kids can use them).

We have a rifle that bends if you hold it too tight. It sprays oil at its user. And then some folks put India and threat to us in same paragraph. Yeah! May be in 100 billion years.

 

[CuriosityRover]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You know what? US general population has better rifles, guns and ammunitions than entire Indian Army. A typical hunting section in walmart has more ammunition than entire norther command of Indian Army. And their guns work (judging how often the kill each other). Their guns are user friendly (judging by how often even kids can use them).

We have a rifle that bends if you hold it too tight. It sprays oil at its user. And then some folks put India and threat to us in same paragraph. Yeah! May be in 100 billion years.

A bunch of goat herders in Afghanistan beat their *censored* though. $1Tn+ spent and Taliban still controls half the country.

 

[Hydra]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You know what? US general population has better rifles, guns and ammunitions than entire Indian Army. A typical hunting section in walmart has more ammunition than entire norther command of Indian Army. And their guns work (judging how often the kill each other). Their guns are user friendly (judging by how often even kids can use them).

We have a rifle that bends if you hold it too tight. It sprays oil at its user. And then some folks put India and threat to us in same paragraph. Yeah! May be in 100 billion years.

They even considering iran, N korea as a threat to USA.

 

[jetray]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You know what? US general population has better rifles, guns and ammunitions than entire Indian Army. A typical hunting section in walmart has more ammunition than entire norther command of Indian Army. And their guns work (judging how often the kill each other). Their guns are user friendly (judging by how often even kids can use them).

We have a rifle that bends if you hold it too tight. It sprays oil at its user. And then some folks put India and threat to us in same paragraph. Yeah! May be in 100 billion years.

kids like you dont understand geopolitics, I wont waste my time.

They even considering iran, N korea as a threat to USA.

Iran & NK is certainly a threat to US allies & thereby to USA. A Iran/NK missile into japan or saudi arabia will send shock waves across the globe & its economy.

 

[Lolwa]

India, US start discussions on F-15EX multi-role combat aircraft: Boeing

The F-15EX is the latest and most advanced version of the multi-role, all-weather, and day and night versions of the F-15 aircraft family.

www.moneycontrol.com

Some interesting news. I feel F 15Ex might end up being a g2g deal like the Rafale completely seperate from the mmrca.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

India, US start discussions on F-15EX multi-role combat aircraft: Boeing

The F-15EX is the latest and most advanced version of the multi-role, all-weather, and day and night versions of the F-15 aircraft family.

www.moneycontrol.com

Some interesting news. I feel F 15Ex might end up being a g2g deal like the Rafale completely seperate from the mmrca.

Even the Americans are wondering if it makes sense to offer the F-15 EX to India.

Boeing Can Now Offer The F-15EX To India, But Does Buying It Really Make Sense?​

In the intervening years, the current IAF fighter inventory has only gotten older, and squadron numbers have diminished as various types have been retired wholesale. New Delhi needs to find a solution sooner rather than later but, in this case, at least, the F-15EX might not be the answer.

 

[Lolwa]

Even the Americans are wondering if it makes sense to offer the F-15 EX to India.

Boeing Can Now Offer The F-15EX To India, But Does Buying It Really Make Sense?​

I'm myself confused I want the f15EX but it does not make sense but I want some fighter bomber class that can be supported along with the Rafale. The capabilities like JASSM-ER and EPAWSS seem too good to not have. Well let's see.
I do understand though that realistically it's either Rafale or the fa/18. Fa 18 for the engine and sheer ew power. Rafale because it's Rafale..

 

[randomradio]

I want some fighter bomber class that can be supported along with the Rafale.

Why? The Rafale does it already. And we are developing the IUSAV as well, which will be a better bomber than a half-fighter, half-bomber.

The capabilities like JASSM-ER and EPAWSS seem too good to not have. Well let's see.

Nothing special about EPAWSS, we have developed our own similar systems, 2 separate systems. And we are also developing similar weapons as the JASSM-ER. Any attempt at MRFA will take us into the post 2025 world, by which time we will even have hypersonic CMs available. So there's nothing special about the JASSM-ER that we don't get out of the SCALP already. The IAF is also interested in the Taurus. There's also a 1000+Km version of Brahmos coming up, which could get an air-launched version for the modified MKIs.

Anyway, we want such long range missiles on the ground rather than in the air, which will allow massed attacks. IA will get ITCM and IAF will get LR-LACM even before the MRFA contract is signed.

 

[randomradio]

Even the Americans are wondering if it makes sense to offer the F-15 EX to India.

Boeing Can Now Offer The F-15EX To India, But Does Buying It Really Make Sense?​

It's the American equivalent of Russia's Su-35 offer.

I think some day in the future we will come to know the technical rankings, and we will know for sure where all these 4.5th gen jets exactly stood in an impartial arena.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Why? The Rafale does it already. And we are developing the IUSAV as well, which will be a better bomber than a half-fighter, half-bomber.



Nothing special about EPAWSS, we have developed our own similar systems, 2 separate systems. And we are also developing similar weapons as the JASSM-ER. Any attempt at MRFA will take us into the post 2025 world, by which time we will even have hypersonic CMs available. So there's nothing special about the JASSM-ER that we don't get out of the SCALP already. The IAF is also interested in the Taurus. There's also a 1000+Km version of Brahmos coming up, which could get an air-launched version for the modified MKIs.

Anyway, we want such long range missiles on the ground rather than in the air, which will allow massed attacks. IA will get ITCM and IAF will get LR-LACM even before the MRFA contract is signed.

JASSM-ER will be integrated to Rafale for Finland.

 

[Lolwa]

Why? The Rafale does it already. And we are developing the IUSAV as well, which will be a better bomber than a half-fighter, half-bomber.



Nothing special about EPAWSS, we have developed our own similar systems, 2 separate systems. And we are also developing similar weapons as the JASSM-ER. Any attempt at MRFA will take us into the post 2025 world, by which time we will even have hypersonic CMs available. So there's nothing special about the JASSM-ER that we don't get out of the SCALP already. The IAF is also interested in the Taurus. There's also a 1000+Km version of Brahmos coming up, which could get an air-launched version for the modified MKIs.

Anyway, we want such long range missiles on the ground rather than in the air, which will allow massed attacks. IA will get ITCM and IAF will get LR-LACM even before the MRFA contract is signed.

I've not heard of GaN EW suit that we have developed or are developing. Rest I agree.

 

[randomradio]

I've not heard of GaN EW suit that we have developed or are developing. Rest I agree.

GaN is just the type of antenna used. The EW suites we have developed are similar to EPAWSS but use GaAs since they are older. The MKI MLU will get GaN.

JASSM-ER will be integrated to Rafale for Finland.

I guess it doesn't matter even if made available.

It's going to be very odd if we are still inducting missiles after 2027 when we should be developing our own.

 

[Hydra]

India, US start discussions on F-15EX multi-role combat aircraft: Boeing

The F-15EX is the latest and most advanced version of the multi-role, all-weather, and day and night versions of the F-15 aircraft family.

www.moneycontrol.com

Some interesting news. I feel F 15Ex might end up being a g2g deal like the Rafale completely seperate from the mmrca.

I will be glad if it materialize like that.

 

[Hydra]

GaN is just the type of antenna used. The EW suites we have developed are similar to EPAWSS but use GaAs since they are older. The MKI MLU will get GaN.


I guess it doesn't matter even if made available.

It's going to be very odd if we are still inducting missiles after 2027 when we should be developing our own.

Do AGM158 having autonomous navigation & homing capability? There are some videos portrayed AGM158 as a smart/AI enabled missile.
If thats the case we are not gonna have AGM158 equivalent missile in near future i fear. We may be able to catch the range arena, but AI & autonomous navigation i seriously doubt.

 

[randomradio]

Do AGM158 having autonomous navigation & homing capability? There are some videos portrayed AGM158 as a smart/AI enabled missile.
If thats the case we are not gonna have AGM158 equivalent missile in near future i fear. We may be able to catch the range arena, but AI & autonomous navigation i seriously doubt.

We already have that on Brahmos.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

The F 15 EX proposal by USA is nothing but a determined effort by them to Pull us away from Russia

It is a diplomatic MINE field for us

 

[Sathya]

If it was me, I ll split MMRCA into part 4 th generation + part 5 th generation

1. 36 rafale + scaf development
2. 36 Su 35 + 36 Su 57
3. 36 F15ex + 36 F35
4. 36 EFT + Tempest development

And go with option 1.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Make in India: BEL delivers transmit/receive modules to Thales for Rafale RBE2 Radar​

03 February 2021, Bengaluru, India: As part of Thales' Offsets commitments under the Rafale India contract, and in line with the Make in India policy, Navratna Defence PSU Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) has manufactured T/R (transmit/receive) modules for the RBE2 radar on the Dassault Aviation Rafale and delivered them to Thales.

Thales is demonstrating its commitment to the Make in India policy through transfers of technology and production, and associated training for BEL engineers in France. BEL has implemented a set of rigorous industrial processes and played an active role in the transfer programme.
Thales is an active stakeholder in the Make in India policy, promoted by the Indian Government, and in the Offsets conditions included in the Rafale India programme. In November 2020, the first RBE2 AESA (active electronic scanning array) radar with a front end manufactured by BEL in India was delivered by Thales to Dassault Aviation.

BEL implemented a set of rigorous processes at its Bangalore facility in order to achieve this key milestone.
Specifically developed for Rafale, the RBE2 is the first in-service European AESA radar and has been combat proven on Rafale aircraft operated by the French Air Force. It was developed in close partnership with Dassault Aviation and the French Defence Procurement Agency (DGA) to meet the requirements of air forces, and uses innovative technologies to combine advanced fire control radar functions and target tracking capabilities. The T/R (transmit/receive) modules are key to the RBE2 radar's active electronic scanning performance, enabling it to steer the radar beam with the speed of an electronic chip.

Initiated at the end of 2017, the transfer of technology to BEL has included validation of the company's technical capacity to deliver prototypes, qualify the various technologies involved in the wiring process, set up a dedicated SMC wiring production line with a preproduction run, train BEL engineers in France and install test benches for microwave characterisation at the BEL facility. The modules produced in India are then integrated with the RBE2 radar in France. BEL and Thales teams are, thus working closely to transfer advanced technological know-how.

Building on Thales's 50+ years of expertise with earlier generationsof radars for combat aircraft, the RBE2 gives the Rafale a number of key advantages. Compared to radars with conventional antennas, the RBE2 delivers an unprecedented level of tactical situational awareness, faster detection and tracking of multiple targets, and can also implement several radar modes instantaneously.

'We're delighted to see our collaboration with BEL delivering results, with the radar transmit/receive modules for the Rafale India programme being produced in Bangalore in line with the Make in India policy. The Thales teams are fully mobilised alongside our partners Dassault Aviation in France and BEL in India,' said Emmanuel De Roquefeuil, VP and Country director, Thales in India.

'We are happy to be associated with Thales in delivering the Transmit/Receive modules for the prestigious Rafale programme. The Thales and BEL teams ensured that the ToT happened seamlessly. We have augmented our facility in Bangalore to meet the requirements of manufacturing this state-of-the-art sub-system. We look forward to working together on many more such challenging assignments with Thales,' said Mr M V Gowtama, Chairman & Managing Director, BEL.

About Thales
Thales (Euronext Paris: HO) is a global high technology leader investing in digital and 'deep tech' innovations - connectivity, big data, artificial intelligence, cybersecurity and quantum technology - to build a future we can all trust, which is vital to the development of our societies. The company provides solutions, services and products that help its customers -businesses, organisations and states - in the defence, aeronautics, space, transportation and digital identity and security markets to fulfil their critical missions, by placing humans at the heart of the decision-making process.
With 83,000 employees in 68 countries, Thales generated sales of €19 billion in 2019 (on a basis including Gemalto over 12 months).

About Thales in India
Present in India since 1953, Thales is headquartered in Noida, Uttar Pradesh and has other operational offices and sites spread across Delhi, Gurugram, Hyderabad, Bengaluru, and Mumbai, among others. Over 1,800 employees are working with Thales and its joint-ventures in India. Since the beginning, Thales has been playing an essential role in India's growth story by sharing its technologies and expertise in Defence, Transport, Aerospace and Digital Identity and Security markets. Thales has two engineering competence centres in India - one in Delhi NCR focused on digital identity and security business and the other one in Bengaluru focused on hardware, software and systems engineering capabilities for both the civil and defence sectors, serving global needs.

 

[Bon Plan]

I will be glad if it materialize like that.

Expensive F-15EX Does Not Deliver: Congress Should Nix Its Purchase

Earlier this year, the Air Force signed a deal to develop, test, and eventually buy up to 140 fourth-generation Boeing F-15EX fighters. Defense Department and Air Force arguments to acquire the F-15EX have run the gamut from it being cheaper to acquire and operate than the F-35, to the need to...

www.heritage.org

"no fact-based argument to acquire the F-15EX stands up to even a modest level of scrutiny. Moving forward with this acquisition would be a bad fiscal investment that would hurt the United States’ ability to fight a war with a peer competitor for the foreseeable future."