MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 29 12.4%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 184 79.0%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.6%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 10 4.3%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 8 3.4%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    233
Thailand has expressed it's interest in getting them pops. The US has neither approved nor rejected their formal offer to buy them. The proposal has been pending with the US since a year.
I don't think the US would sell the F-35 to a not really trusted ally/partner until the NGAD is operational.
 
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US has offered F35 to Thailand, a country buying amphibious docks & submarines from China.... It has offered F35 to nations against EF2000s/Rafales when those nations cannot afford to buy it.

But for MMRCA 2.0 & MRCBF....

Apples and oranges.

MRFA requires ToT, the Americans are not open to that. And MRCBF asked for a proven 4.5th gen jet in particular.

It's kind of bamboo farming. You put in water, manure & pesticides for years with no results and then suddenly a growth spurts.

South Korea has spent a billion plus USD on R&D for its KFX each year since 2011. For 10 years it had nothing to show.

The question is not if we can build AMCA. The question is can we be persistent & logical about it ?

The Koreans were simply handed tech on a platter. A lot of their "indigenous" stuff is basically like BEL's indigenous stuff.
 
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I don't think the US would sell the F-35 to a not really trusted ally/partner until the NGAD is operational.

Thailand is a treaty ally of the US. It's like a second Pakistan and helps the US maintain influence over Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar and India.

All export F-35s are downgraded, so it doesn't matter. The F-35 comes in different tiers, and the US operates the most capable versions. The F-35s are also very likely to have a kill switch of some sort that prevents them from operating against American interests.
 
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it is, the US hasn't offered. there is no way they would get the F-35.

I really doubt it will even be offered to india, under the current situation with s-400

Wait & watch .

another BS thing.

You actually believe the US will offer you or their other allies what they're using in the same shape & form & configuration ? I swear to God , Pops , all this while I was half kidding when I said the Aussies are a bit thick. I see you went out of your way to disprove me .

I can really see now why Macron was so pissed off at being double crossed especially with the kind of budgeted figures being bandied about for your N subs . I doubt le Francais are ever going to forgive & forget the Anglos for what they've done . Not after AUKUS . Certainly not after Ukraine. Absolutely not after the CHIPS Act & the subsidies the US federal government is extending those willing to relocate their industries to the US from Europe.
 
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Except for SMC the Russians don't lack anything . They've enough to certify the 2nd stage of the PAKFA program. Post that if & it's a big if , we do decide to go in for the Su-57M , we can provide them the SMCs needed for the ones they mfg for us. But you've a point , it's going to be a complicated affair.

What are the SMC you reckon go into such advanced 5th Gen FAs ? Is it cutting edge state of the art SMCs or legacy ones ? @Bali78
It shall need both. Most sensors are fabricated with older technologies (45 -180 nm, suitable for analog mixed signal chips). However, all processing chips ( signal processing, control processors) must be from latest nodes i.e. high processing throughput, low power. I would expect a huge amount of processing required for sensor fusion and AI/ML.

They have two ways to get them. Off the self chips can be smuggled through friendly countries. If they want to build custom sensor chips, they shall be able to fabricate them at China's fabs (old technology nodes).
 
it is, the US hasn't offered. there is no way they would get the F-35.
I really doubt it will even be offered to india, under the current situation with s-400

another BS thing.
It's so simple all he has to do is research to know export F-35's are not "downgraded" but he's lazy or he knows a lot of folks in here are not learned folks when it comes to his false claim and will believe his BS.
 
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another BS thing.

The Americans said it themselves. Identical hardware, but with software limitations. For example, export F-35s have throttled computers, so that means less capable radar and EW suite, although the hardware is the same.

It's unclear how high up the totem pole one has to be to get all capabilities that the US can use. Perhaps four of the Five Eyes have the most capable export versions. But the export versions with lower capabilities are real.
 
Then the reality is that MRFA won't happen. Finance ministry is not signing on 200 million USD fly away cost on a Rafale while countries are importing F35 at less than 100 million USD.
You are comparing apple and strawberry.
The indian Rafale was tailord made for indian specs. F35, as all the US birds, is only for sale on a USAF specs (except for Israel...).
 
As for the Rafale, the Indian deal included a 5-year spares supply at €343M, that's €1.9M per year per jet. If we assume 250 hours per year, then we get €7600 or $8100 per hour. But that's spares alone. Add all the other costs like fuel and consumables, the cost increases significantly above SH's $11374. Possibly the $16k to 18k that you have quoted.
The SH's figure is for what level of availability? The Rafale one is for at least 75%. I'm sure SH is not at this level.
 
The Americans said it themselves. Identical hardware, but with software limitations. For example, export F-35s have throttled computers, so that means less capable radar and EW suite, although the hardware is the same.

It's unclear how high up the totem pole one has to be to get all capabilities that the US can use. Perhaps four of the Five Eyes have the most capable export versions. But the export versions with lower capabilities are real.
NO NO NO NOOOO! There are no differences/downgrade between US F-35's and export F-35's with the exception of customization of what the customer wants. Same stealth and same avionics. You must think all these nations are dumb to pay a lot of money for a monkey model F-35, huh?

UAE at one time flew the most advanced F-16 in the blk-60 version and Saudi's one time flew the most advanced F-15 in the F-15SA.
 
The Americans said it themselves. Identical hardware, but with software limitations. For example, export F-35s have throttled computers, so that means less capable radar and EW suite, although the hardware is the same.

It's unclear how high up the totem pole one has to be to get all capabilities that the US can use. Perhaps four of the Five Eyes have the most capable export versions. But the export versions with lower capabilities are real.
If the US downgrades, it is stated, like the Arab F-15. The US also have exchange pilots flying their F-35. Australia has exchange pilot flying the F-22.
First i've heard of throttled computers. it sounds BS, you are going to have to give a link.
this was sorted years ago. there are minor changes, like altimeter Feet/metre and EW mission library. AU UK and CA have their own joint lab, as some others do.
 
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The SH's figure is for what level of availability? The Rafale one is for at least 75%. I'm sure SH is not at this level.

We don't have data for SH B3. The B3 has a lot of advancements that can reduce cost and increase availability compared to B2. For example, it could be even cheaper than what's been quoted.
 
NO NO NO NOOOO! There are no differences/downgrade between US F-35's and export F-35's with the exception of customization of what the customer wants. Same stealth and same avionics. You must think all these nations are dumb to pay a lot of money for a monkey model F-35, huh?

UAE at one time flew the most advanced F-16 in the blk-60 version and Saudi's one time flew the most advanced F-15 in the F-15SA.

The Pentagon themselves confirmed that the F-35 has software limitations on export F-35s compared to their own.

They were talking about how pilots of different countries get their own customised configurations on the same jet. So a USAF pilot gets all capabilities unlocked, whereas other pilots get different capabilities unlocked based on their log in information, and it depends on what each country has been cleared to use.

There is a totem pole, and capability unlocks are based on where a country is on the totem pole.
F35 is coming in Le Bourget air show, but France is not interested in.

All of Europe is a customer base for the US. India is the customer base. Aero India is more local than international.
 
If the US downgrades, it is stated, like the Arab F-15. The US also have exchange pilots flying their F-35. Australia has exchange pilot flying the F-22.
First i've heard of throttled computers. it sounds BS, you are going to have to give a link.
this was sorted years ago. there are minor changes, like altimeter Feet/metre and EW mission library. AU UK and CA have their own joint lab, as some others do.

Tried looking for it. It's probably on Drive.