MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

What is your favorite for MMRCA 2.0 ?

  • F-35 Blk 4

    Votes: 29 12.4%
  • Rafale F4

    Votes: 184 79.0%
  • Eurofighter Typhoon T3

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Gripen E/F

    Votes: 6 2.6%
  • F-16 B70

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • F-18 SH

    Votes: 10 4.3%
  • F-15EX

    Votes: 8 3.4%
  • Mig-35

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    233
My point of view is the more the time is spreading, the more powerfull the Chinese are.
I don't see where their avantages will vanished after 2028.
Their navy is growing fast, with a lot of new SSN, SSK, frigates, destroyers, LHD, now carriers (with the J-31 stealth fighter that seems to me potentially more potent than F-35). US Navy will never follow. Sole asset of USN is SSN, but what about in shallow waters?

First, they lose economic leverage, so the US can sanction them, turn them into a pariah. They don't have an India to rescue them, like what happened with Russia. All other Chinese friends are too poor and useless to help them.

Second, the US is still a much stronger country militarily. Even if the Chinese build more assets, they still need 15 more years to catch up. So their production advantage is much further into the future. Right now, they moved first, so their military capabilities within the Taiwan theater is superior, but that will change once the US introduces new ships and other capabilities, like AB Flight III, upgraded F-22, mature F-35, hypersonic weapons etc. They are also improving their intelligence infrastructure drastically. 4-5 years from now is enough time to nullify a lot of the advantages the Chinese are expected to have by 2025.

Third, delaying the invasion will give Taiwan more time to prepare. The Taiwanese are developing capabilities that will help them hit targets deep within China. They are currently building 500 missiles a year and will climb to 1000 next year. The more time the Chinese take, the greater damage their ports and other infrastructure will take. And this doesn't include foreign supplies.

Taiwan is very rapidly building 2 submarines with Japanese and American help, apart from operating 2 other upgraded subs. So they will have at least 3 or 4 subs before 2026 for shallow water operations. Plus any war with Taiwan will see Japanese participation. So the combined US, Japan and Taiwanese fleets are bigger and more advanced than the Chinese one. We will naturally see the involvement of the UK and Australia as well.

So the Chinese only have until 2027, post which the next opportunity is unlikely to come for many decades. And their declining birth rate is not helping matters. And any attempt to reverse it will bear fruit only a decade or more later.
 
MRFA procurement is bound to happen. It is inevitable.

Our current fleet:
03 squadrons Mig-21
03 squadrons Mig-29
03 squadrons Mirage-2000
06 squadrons Jaguar
12 squadrons Su-30MKI
02 squadrons Tejas MK-1
02 squadrons Rafale
Total: 31

Aircrafts under procurement:
04 squadrons Tejas MK-1A

Squadrons we are planning to retire by 2032:
03 squadrons Mig-21
03 squadrons Mig-29
03 squadrons Mirage-2000
06 squadrons Jaguar
Total: 15

We will be left with only 16 + 04 = 20 squadrons. Even if we order additional 05 Tejas MK-1A squadrons, we will just reach a Squadron strength of 25.

If we order a total of 06 -10 squadrons of Tejas MK-2 then we will reach the current squadron strength of 31-35. We still require a minimum of 6 squadrons of another aircraft to reach around 41. This is where MRFA comes in to the picture. It is required to fill the squadron gap.

People who argue that rest of the number should come from AMCA as the IAF has promised a minimum total of 7 squadrons should keep in mind that approval for AMCA is still pending from CCS and it will definitely take time to get mature.

If MRFA is procured then:
12 squadrons Su-30MKI
02 squadrons Tejas MK-1
09 squadrons Tejas MK-1A
02 squadrons Rafale
06 squadrons MRFA
10 squadrons Tejas MK-2
Total: 41
 
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MRFA procurement is bound to happen. It is inevitable.

Our current fleet:
03 squadrons Mig-21
03 squadrons Mig-29
03 squadrons Mirage-2000
06 squadrons Jaguar
12 squadrons Su-30MKI
02 squadrons Tejas MK-1
02 squadrons Rafale
Total: 31

Aircrafts under procurement:
04 squadrons Tejas MK-1A

Squadrons we are planning to retire by 2032:
03 squadrons Mig-21
03 squadrons Mig-29
03 squadrons Mirage-2000
06 squadrons Jaguar
Total: 15

We will be left with only 16 + 04 = 20 squadrons. Even if we order additional 05 Tejas MK-1A squadrons, we will just reach a Squadron strength of 25.

If we order a total of 06 -10 squadrons of Tejas MK-2 then we will reach the current squadron strength of 31-35. We still require a minimum of 6 squadrons of another aircraft to reach around 41. This is where MRFA comes in to the picture. It is required to fill the squadron gap.

People who argue that rest of the number should come from AMCA as the IAF has promised a minimum total of 7 squadrons should keep in mind that approval for AMCA is still pending from CCS and it will definitely take time to get mature.

If MRFA is procured then:
12 squadrons Su-30MKI
02 squadrons Tejas MK-1
09 squadrons Tejas MK-1A
02 squadrons Rafale
06 squadrons MRFA
10 squadrons Tejas MK-2
Total: 41

The 3 M2000 and 2 Jag squadrons can survive until the 2040s. 37 Jags were inducted between 2002 and 2007.

So we are currently guaranteed 25 squadrons (12+6+3+2+2). 5 additional Mk1A squadrons will take us to 30. And 6 each of LCA Mk2 and MRFA will give us 42. And AMCA will fill in the requirement for 3 M2000, 2 Jags and 2 of the oldest MKI squadrons, so that's 7.

Then comes the replacement of the remaining 10 MKI and 2 LCA Mk1 squadrons. Plus the enhancement to 45 squadrons. So, possibly 6-8 squadrons of something new, and the remaining 7-9 to be fulfilled by either LCA Mk2, MRFA or AMCA or a combination of the 3. We could climb up to 50 squadrons by then.

The second paragraph is practically guaranteed, the third one is anyone's guess.
 
"The officials in the know of the process do not concur with the conclusion that Rafale will emerge victorious. “Other aircraft have upgraded suitably to meet IAF’s requirements, Gripen-E definitely, plus F-15E and F-21,” the official opined."
@randomradio
@Picdelamirand-oil
 
"The officials in the know of the process do not concur with the conclusion that Rafale will emerge victorious. “Other aircraft have upgraded suitably to meet IAF’s requirements, Gripen-E definitely, plus F-15E and F-21,” the official opined."
@randomradio
@Picdelamirand-oil
This Eurasian times blog is giving me ID_RW vibes. Imaginary officials and clickbaits.
 
"The officials in the know of the process do not concur with the conclusion that Rafale will emerge victorious. “Other aircraft have upgraded suitably to meet IAF’s requirements, Gripen-E definitely, plus F-15E and F-21,” the official opined."
@randomradio
@Picdelamirand-oil

Lobby article. Not to be taken seriously.

The unnamed "official" "opining" all aircraft that favour the US. Funny that.

This is the most important bit:
“The MMRCA competition was a thoroughly conducted process. It took us years to vet every contender. For MRFA, which is just a different name for the contract, I can only expect the ‘Make in India’ could be the deciding factor,” Air Marshal (retd) M. Matheswaran told the EurAsian Times.

The IAF already knows what it wants, and if any contender wants to win, it has to defeat the Rafale in every single parameter while also being cheaper. Only the F-35 is a real contender, all other jets are just participants. Typhoon comes the closest, but we already know it's more expensive.
 
Lobby article. Not to be taken seriously.

The unnamed "official" "opining" all aircraft that favour the US. Funny that.

This is the most important bit:
“The MMRCA competition was a thoroughly conducted process. It took us years to vet every contender. For MRFA, which is just a different name for the contract, I can only expect the ‘Make in India’ could be the deciding factor,” Air Marshal (retd) M. Matheswaran told the EurAsian Times.

The IAF already knows what it wants, and if any contender wants to win, it has to defeat the Rafale in every single parameter while also being cheaper. Only the F-35 is a real contender, all other jets are just participants. Typhoon comes the closest, but we already know it's more expensive.
May be an unpopular opinion, but F15 EX is also good ( if weight category is not a big criteria ).
I want 114+72 Rafale, 120 F15 EX as replacement for SU30s which will be retired without upgradation. And 120+ f35 as replacement for Jaguar. If IAF didn't pursue the above mentioned procurement, its *censored* will be spanked by china for sure.
 
May be an unpopular opinion, but F15 EX is also good ( if weight category is not a big criteria ).
I want 114+72 Rafale, 120 F15 EX as replacement for SU30s which will be retired without upgradation. And 120+ f35 as replacement for Jaguar. If IAF didn't pursue the above mentioned procurement, its *censored* will be spanked by china for sure.

The F-15EX is a generation behind the Rafale. It has good avionics, but that's it.

Su-30 replacement has to be AMCA or beyond. The F-15EX is a downgrade in comparison.

The F-35 is also a massive upgrade over the F-15EX. But the US has not offered it for joint production. Plus we need a new engine for it, the current engine is severely underpowered for the Himalayas.
 
The F-15EX is a generation behind the Rafale. It has good avionics, but that's it.
May or may not be,bit it is far far far superior to that MKI.
Plus we need a new engine for it, the current engine is severely underpowered for the Himalayas.
The F35 with current engine is sufficient to replace the role of Jaguar. If you want to strike Chinese, you need passive stealth aircraft, and our AMC is not a reality now (probably never will be)
 
May or may not be,bit it is far far far superior to that MKI.

To the MKI, yes. The MKI MLU, no.

With MKI getting a GaN radar, the F-15's main sensor itself is a generation behind. Everything else on the F-15EX, we already have, some of it is even better. And it has sh!t performance, it can't even climb or dogfight, it's only good for carrying a large payload. The only weapon on the F-15EX that the MKI cannot carry was canceled. So the overall aircraft is basically a downgrade compared to even the original MKI, never mind the MKI MLU. We are better off just buying more MKIs and upgrading them instead.

The aircraft is so bad that even the USAF is being forced to buy it, and they are looking for more bakras to buy it. For the IAF, it's just overpriced junk.

The F35 with current engine is sufficient to replace the role of Jaguar. If you want to strike Chinese, you need passive stealth aircraft, and our AMC is not a reality now (probably never will be)

It's underpowered even in the plains. There are three engine options, two are upgrades of the current engine and the third option is a new engine. Only the third option will meet our requirements. It can even replace Rafale in the strike role, never mind Jaguar.

Yes, we need a stealth jet, but it's either the F-35 with a new engine or the Su-57. But it would only serve as a stopgap, we don't need 120+.
 
Given the state of the Rafale order book, the French are Zen.
Understandable and good for you. But IAF always wanted to buy Mirage-2000 and later Rafale for their MRCA. It was the government who want to remain politically clean and thus want a tender. IAF is not going to come out and say that it's only going to be Rafale. That's bad for business and gives Dassault better bargaining rights.

It's going to be Rafale, we'll know it unless Uncle Sam decides to sell and manufacture F-35 Block-4 in India for MRFA.
 
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Qatar's Rafales are in Egypt

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