MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions

[Sathya]

More Rafales will come but this is indeed interesting because Dassault doesn't want any Indian stake-holder in their Indian factory.

Eurofighter and F-15EX's chances have gone up several notches cause both Euro Consortium and Boeing are desperate for sales. They are more likely to yield to all our demands.

Let's see how it all pans out!

I don't think USA will give 100 % tot, remember during Parikar time , USA refused that for F16 even when it was facing close down of the line.

If France is not willing, we need not even think about EFT.

I can only think about 2 possibilities.

1. France is willing, GOI is filtering others out.

2. Recent exercises with F35, made India realize, its 5 th generation era, anything lesser than that should atleast give complete autonomy in integration, Upgradation ,
Help in indigenous / Jv engine etc
Not willing to be cash cow for a 5 - gen.

Let's see how the engine deal proceeds.

 

[Hydra]

I don't think USA will give 100 % tot, remember during Parikar time , USA refused that for F16 even when it was facing close down of the line.

If France is not willing, we need not even think about EFT.

I can only think about 2 possibilities.

1. France is willing, GOI is filtering others out.

2. Recent exercises with F35, made India realize, its 5 th generation era, anything lesser than that should atleast give complete autonomy in integration, Upgradation ,
Help in indigenous / Jv engine etc
Not willing to be cash cow for a 5 - gen.

Let's see how the engine deal proceeds.

Thar report says France is not willing for TOT.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Rafale IAF fleet will be 36 units, because by the time they decide to buy more, we'll be in the next century and they'll be out of production.

Oh? But I thought that...

So which is it? USA will give full TOT, or USA wants to destroy India?

Speaking of full TOT:

So they have an agreement to get 80% TOT for an engine, and they think this means they'll get 100% TOT for an entire aircraft? Expectations need to be recalibrated, I think.

And reminder, it's not with Boeing or Eurofighter you have to negotiate; it's with the governments.

It's not about 100% TOT as no one is going to do that but:

1. Full production of 114 jets in India.

2. Tie up with a local partner.


So in the end it is going to be who brings the best offer on the plate. Trust me, I am as much Rafale fan as you and want it to win. But the way things are, until Dassault yields, Rafale is literally out of the tender under the new rules set by GOI.

 

[Rajput Lion]

I don't think USA will give 100 % tot, remember during Parikar time , USA refused that for F16 even when it was facing close down of the line.

If France is not willing, we need not even think about EFT.

I can only think about 2 possibilities.

1. France is willing, GOI is filtering others out.

2. Recent exercises with F35, made India realize, its 5 th generation era, anything lesser than that should atleast give complete autonomy in integration, Upgradation ,
Help in indigenous / Jv engine etc
Not willing to be cash cow for a 5 - gen.

Let's see how the engine deal proceeds.

F-35? As per reports even aggressor F-15s gave quite a fight to Rafale.

Anyways, Rafale is the best best for us and the best out of all MRFA candidates. But if Dassault doesn't want to play then Typhoon is another option(though not as good as Rafale). F-35, Block-4 is another option but local manufacturing of 114 F-35s with TOT looks like a pipe-dream at the moment.

 

[A Person]

Thing is that Dassault has repeatedly said if they had a big order, they'd do local production at DRAL. So if, as the article alleges (gotta be cautious about what journos and their sources say), they're not agreeing to do that, it must mean that they're being asked to transfer the technology to another company than DRAL... and indeed it'd make no sense to agree with that.

 

[Ironhide]

Why base all this on a single article? All of these corrupt journos have an agenda to push.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Thing is that Dassault has repeatedly said if they had a big order, they'd do local production at DRAL. So if, as the article alleges (gotta be cautious about what journos and their sources say), they're not agreeing to do that, it must mean that they're being asked to transfer the technology to another company than DRAL... and indeed it'd make no sense to agree with that.

They don't want to share Rafale manufacturing technique/process with any Indian partner so they want to have 100% ownership of their Indian plant. They have even requested GOI to allow them 100% stake in factory ownership and buying out Reliance's shares.

It seems that through some informed leaks, GOI is looking to pressurize Dassault to not ditch Reliance. Let's see how it all pans out!

 

[Hydra]

They don't want to share Rafale manufacturing technique/process with any Indian partner so they want to have 100% ownership of their Indian plant. They have even requested GOI to allow them 100% stake in factory ownership and buying out Reliance's shares.

It seems that through some informed leaks, GOI is looking to pressurize Dassault to not ditch Reliance. Let's see how it all pans out!

If i am not wrong, GOI is open for 100% FDI in defense.

 

[Rajput Lion]

If i am not wrong, GOI is open for 100% FDI in defense.

As per the leaks, a local partner is imperative for winning the MRFA tender. Gotta wait for more news to come.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

They don't want to share Rafale manufacturing technique/process with any Indian partner so they want to have 100% ownership of their Indian plant. They have even requested GOI to allow them 100% stake in factory ownership and buying out Reliance's shares.

It seems that through some informed leaks, GOI is looking to pressurize Dassault to not ditch Reliance. Let's see how it all pans out!

Dassault's problem is that Reliance can no longer invest at all and therefore everything is blocked because investments must be made in proportion to the respective shares. For example, the Reliance factory is the only factory in the world on the grounds of an airport that is not connected to a takeoff runway by a taxiway.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Dassault's problem is that Reliance can no longer invest at all and therefore everything is blocked because investments must be made in proportion to the respective shares. For example, the Reliance factory is the only factory in the world on the grounds of an airport that is not connected to a takeoff runway by a taxiway.

That's why I said that now it's upto GOI and Dassault/France to sort out the issue.

Boy, both Boeing and EF consortium would be licking their chops now, lol!

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

That's why I said that now it's upto GOI and Dassault/France to sort out the issue.

Boy, both Boeing and EF consortium would be licking their chops now, lol!

With all the production defects that Boeing has, and all the export problems that Germany poses, we are sure that India will be conciliatory in resolving the problem with Dassault. It's a bit like when Indian forumers were worried about the fact that the Rafale wouldn't be able to use the elevators on Indian aircraft carriers, we now learn that they will go on both and that it's the super hornet that was not compatible with Indian aircraft carriers. For example, the Indian state can buy shares from Reliance.

 

[Lolwa]

More Rafales will come but this is indeed interesting because Dassault doesn't want any Indian stake-holder in their Indian factory.

Eurofighter and F-15EX's chances have gone up several notches cause both Euro Consortium and Boeing are desperate for sales. They are more likely to yield to all our demands.

Let's see how it all pans out!

Going for the typhoon mk2 radar should be the better deal.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Going for the typhoon mk2 radar should be the better deal.

What will make you miss the RBE2 XG

 

[Hydra]

What will make you miss the RBE2 XG

Its notbready, right?

 

[A Person]

Its notbready, right?

The current schedule is prototype testing on an actual aircraft in 2028, entry into service in 2030. At least that's what Arvind Badrinath said on a podcast last year.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Going for the typhoon mk2 radar should be the better deal.

Going for any other plane except Rafale would be foolish, IMO. However, if not Rafale then Typhoon with GaN Radar would be the second best choice. Hope we make our decision within this year and close this 2 decade long drama for good.

 

[Hydra]

Going for any other plane except Rafale would be foolish, IMO. However, if not Rafale then Typhoon with GaN Radar would be the second best choice. Hope we make our decision within this year and close this 2 decade long drama for good.

If not Rafale, it should be F15EX. I don't want a fighter produced by N number of nations. I don't want another Russian aircraft too.
Rafale>=F15EX>Gripen>EFT

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Its notbready, right?

Delay between ECRS MK2 and RBE2 XG is around 1 - 2 years if we take into account the announcements in the press, but as the Typhoon program is always late, it is likely that they will be available at the same time or that the RBE2 will be available before.

 

[Rajput Lion]

If not Rafale, it should be F15EX. I don't want a fighter produced by N number of nations. I don't want another Russian aircraft too.
Rafale>=F15EX>Gripen>EFT

F-15EX is a great plane, no doubt! However, as I see it, there are few problems:

1. Weight: It's a heavy-weight 30 tonnes+(MTOW) fighter in MKI class. Induction of such jets in 114 numbers would mean that IAF would be too top-heavy and it would be costly in terms of both CAPEX & OPEX.

2. Age: Accept it that its basic design is even older than our MKI.

3. RCS: Rafale/Typhoon/Gripen/SH all are RO/LO planes. F-15 EX not so much even with RAM(which I doubt US will share with us).

4. American dictate: With every US weapon, we shall need their permission to use. The Euro platforms have no such bondage.


Rest it is a good plane