Multi-Role Carrier Borne Fighter For The Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

What should we select?

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Lolwa said:
Aim260 doesn't exist.
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Very soon it is about to enter production. By the time Super Hornets are delivered, AIM-260 would definitely be ready.
Lolwa said:
The best the U.S has is the aim 120d and surprisingly the aim-54 phoenix.
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The best that US can offer is not good enough for us.
Lolwa said:
We desperately need the r-37m,meteor and aim 120d to really maintain air-superiority.
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Nope. R-37M is an AWACS/Tanker HVT killer.

We already have Meteor. Astra and its derivatives are far better than AMRAAMs. Have you forgotten than out of 5 AMRAAMs fired, not a single one touched Su-30? It is completely outclassed now.

We have Derby-ER which is anydays better. Astra 2 is about to go into active service very soon.
Lolwa said:
Astra is a decent solution but we need to induct Astra mk 2 as soon as possible. Also we need to make an equivalent to pl-15 and pl-17 somehow. A bigger Astra with 400km range but not like sfdr. And I hope they make an anti-radiation version of that.
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Why? SFRD with over 300kms range and ability to pull 40Gs is good enough to kill any fighter or high value target. Astra 2 will already exceed PL-15.

PL-17? You mean PL-21? Well, there was a report sometime back about DRDO creating a 3-pulse BVR missile. It could be our PL-21 equivalent.
 
Rajput Lion said:
Very soon it is about to enter production. By the time Super Hornets are delivered, AIM-260 would definitely be ready.

The best that US can offer is not good enough for us.


Nope. R-37M is an AWACS/Tanker HVT killer.

We already have Meteor. Astra and its derivatives are far better than AMRAAMs. Have you forgotten than out of 5 AMRAAMs fired, not a single one touched Su-30? It is completely outclassed now.

We have Derby-ER which is anydays better. Astra 2 is about to go into active service very soon.

Why? SFRD with over 300kms range and ability to pull 40Gs is good enough to kill any fighter or high value target. Astra 2 will already exceed PL-15.

PL-17? You mean PL-21? Well, there was a report sometime back about DRDO creating a 3-pulse BVR missile. It could be our PL-21 equivalent.
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And Astra is on par with AIM120c or slightly better than the Russian counterpart.
Lastly, those AIM120c well achieved its objectives to keep mki away from attacking formation. And, it didn't touch mki because all are fired at its maximum range, even your meteor wont make a kill if it fired at its maximum range.
 
@vstol Jockey i do remembering that once you gave me a reply that, US will give india what ever we wants if we choose FA18 (during that time, it was 57 jets not 26).
Does the same scenario existing now? Will us offer us AIM120D, AIM260,loyal wing man & EA18 Growler or atleast some of the things mentioned above?
 
Rajput Lion said:
R-37M is an AWACS/Tanker HVT killer
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The Russians literally are using r-37's on their su-35 for taking out ukie flankers. R-37 literally flies at mach 5-6 compared to your slower bvraam which fly at mach 4-5. It's in the league of aim-54 and r-33. The age of vlraams never went.
 
Lolwa said:
The Russians literally are using r-37's on their su-35 for taking out ukie flankers. R-37 literally flies at mach 5-6 compared to your slower bvraam which fly at mach 4-5. It's in the league of aim-54 and r-33. The age of vlraams never went.
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Yes, I know! But bear in mind that Ukrainian Flankers and Fulcrums have outdated RWR. Any alert and agile target would run away from R-37M. It's only certified to kill 8G targets. You need a missile capable of killing 12G targets to effectively neutralize fighter jets.

That said R-37M is good enough to force back Chinese AWACS. So maybe we should procure it. But honestly, we have made such great progress in missile tech that I don't support any import now except the tech we don't possess. Like IIR WVR missiles.
 
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Rajput Lion said:
Yes, I know! But bear in mind that Ukrainian Flankers and Fulcrums have outdated RWR. Any alert and agile target would run away from R-37M. It's only certified to kill 8G targets. You need a missile capable of killing 12G targets to effectively neutralize fighter jets.

That said R-37M is good enough to force back Chinese AWACS. So maybe we should procure it. But honestly, we have made such great progress in missile tech that I don't support any import now except the tech we don't possess. Like IIR WVR missiles.
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Until we don't develop an option it's an extremely affordable non-risky and effective option.
www.forbes.com

Russia’s Best Missile Can Hit Ukrainian Jets From 80 Miles Away. But Ukrainian Pilots Know How To Dodge.

“We created different tactics for how to avoid this missile—and that’s why it’s not so succesful against our jets,” Ukrainian Mikoyan MiG-29 pilot “Juice” told Lithuanian broadcaster Delfi.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
Lolwa said:
Until we don't develop an option it's an extremely affordable non-risky and effective option.
www.forbes.com

Russia’s Best Missile Can Hit Ukrainian Jets From 80 Miles Away. But Ukrainian Pilots Know How To Dodge.

“We created different tactics for how to avoid this missile—and that’s why it’s not so succesful against our jets,” Ukrainian Mikoyan MiG-29 pilot “Juice” told Lithuanian broadcaster Delfi.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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80 miles? now you have ruined the fantasy about russian missiles.
 
The general consensus is the J-20 is as much VLO as the F-35. And hell, even the LCA Mk1A is expected to have more advanced avionics than the F-35, never mind the J-20. The F-35 is already 15 years old. Even modernised versions of the J-20 are out.

Within just a few years, the IA will become the most indigenised service. All their long term programs are indigenous. Only their emergency purchases and piecemeal orders are imports. Otoh, the IN will be the least indigenous in just 10 more years.

Agniveer will take years to change the makeup of the forces. Right now there's not a single operational Agniveer, and by the time the last career soldier is gone, that's at least a good 13 years away.
 
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Optimist said:
80 miles? now you have ruined the fantasy about russian missiles.
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Launched by Mig-31BM at Mach 2.3 and 65k feet, R-37M is capable of reaching 300+kms range. Launched by Su-35S, its range is around 200-250kms.
Lolwa said:
We just lost to the fa-50 blk 20 in Malaysia and they were offering the APG-84.
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He's talking about GaN EW that is upcoming next year. Rest F-35 is way more advance than Tejas MK1A in every sense.
 
Optimist said:
Are you sure it wasn't a c7/8? Well i don't know why the 120 c7/8 or d wasn't offered. If it doesn't upset regional power.
There are quite a few with the c-7 and c7/8

Search for aim-120 | Defense Security Cooperation Agency

www.dsca.mil www.dsca.mil
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The tender is only for the aircraft. Any weapon offered during the tender process is just a placeholder, an older cousin of what will be ordered, which allows a country to protect its capabilities. Weapons package and other options are decided during negotiations.

C8 is D. The improvement between C7 and C8 was big enough to give it a separate designation. Today there's a D3, if there is a massive improvement over D1, then we could see it called E.

Since we are looking at operating the jet starting in 2026 at the minimum, we could actually see Raytheon and LM competing with the D3 and 260. Even the Americans know they can't offer the traditional AMRAAM family to India against the Chinese.
 
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randomradio said:
The tender is only for the aircraft. Any weapon offered during the tender process is just a placeholder, an older cousin of what will be ordered, which allows a country to protect its capabilities. Weapons package and other options are decided during negotiations.

C8 is D. The improvement between C7 and C8 was big enough to give it a separate designation. Today there's a D3, if there is a massive improvement over D1, then we could see it called E.

Since we are looking at operating the jet starting in 2026 at the minimum, we could actually see Raytheon and LM competing with the D3 and 260. Even the Americans know they can't offer the traditional AMRAAM family to India against the Chinese.
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That makes more sense then. so it is a storm in a teacup
 
Optimist said:
That makes more sense then. so it is a storm in a teacup
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Yep. Placeholder weapons during evaluations, perhaps cutting edge simulations and/or demonstrations at a later date and then all the exotic stuff comes out after contracts are signed and money's exchanged hands. It can all be accelerated depending on what sort of committment both govts have reached beforehand.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Have you seen a FMS clearance from US regarding Super Hornet yet? The very absence of that means that proper techno commercial offers are yet to be made.

Without those, what is CCS supposed to clear ? The IN evaluation report?
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That means still long way to go?
 
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