Norwegian Armed Forces

[Fox]

So Fox, are these natives who've converted or are these migrants from the ME?

Unfortunately most aren't coming from the Middle East, though the Police Security Service (Norwegian domestic intelligence) has assessed that a handful of the groups members are Algerian born. Most however are European born, born to migrants, but European citizens regardless. From the UK, From Kosovo, from Norway, most aren't migrants but citizens of Europe which makes them harder to deal with due to freedom of migration clauses in the EU charter and the Norwegian deal with the EU. It also blunts the impact of deportation.

That said, the group only has a core of between 15-20 active members and an unknown number of sympathizers. Most of its "core" members were either killed fighting in Syria for ISIS or are imprisoned for criminal activity within Norway. Others have been deported, Omar Cheblal being one such individual and ended up in Greece. He later traveled to Syria and died while fighting there.

We can't blame migrants solely since most are European born and their parents aren't to blame for their radicalization.

Fortunately Norway has a strong domestic intelligence capability and cooperates on counter-terrorism with the 5 Eyes, so usually know what's up in our country. The same systems that earned us the moniker of "NATO's Northern Eyes" gives us the capability to turn those eyes and ears within, rather then pointed at our pesky Eastern neighbor.

We keep hearing the claim (albeit primarily from Pakistanis) that Islam is the fastest growing religion in Europe.

In Norway Islam has seen an increase of 26.5% since 2011. This still represents a paltry 2% of our religious population trailing the Church of Norway by over 70%, but the growth isn't due to an influx of Muslims or citizens converting, it's largely due to Norway becoming less religious in recent years and that balances out the statistics making Islam seem greater in numbers and growth by comparison.

To say it's the fastest growing religion in Norway wouldn't be wrong, but proper context needs to be establish or people get the wrong notions in their head.

Is it mainly countries like France and the UK, or are you guys noticing it too?

It's mostly France and the UK, Norway actually has very strict migration policies. While Sweden has a reputation for accepting anyone with a pulse and that's turned around and bit them in the butt badly, historically and currently Norway's been more closed off to outsiders. We've opened up a bit in recent years to legal migration, but we still deport thousands every year who either come illegally or overstay their welcome (work visa expiration for instance). I wont tell you there isn't a problem with migration either since we do sometimes get some bad seeds, but that's something France and the UK have a greater problem with then we do.

 

[Vicky]

They're noisy and fortunately under constant watch. Regrettably however arbitrary detention isn't legal in Norway so they're free to go about their business until they break a law.

This. Ideology spreading is an issue which needs to be seen. Its seen here in Canada too under the guise of Freedom of Speech. In effect one can inject toxic thoughts to anyone and nobody can do anything. Cos they havent broke a law. This is where radicalisation rises. Might be considered illegal in European standards but many SA and Arabic countries clamp on such thoughts vigorously.

 

[Aravind]

The medevac M113 in the first post of the thread isn't the only land-based medical vehicle in the Norwegian Army. More commonly seen is the SISU armored, amphibious transport shown here during a medevac training exercise on 15 Feb, 2018.

Typically the SISU is armed with a center mounted cupola outfitted with FN MAG, FN MInimi or MG3 general purpose machine guns, but some have recently been outfitted with remote weapon stations too.

A sore point for Russia maybe, but not us. The migrants who came from Russia were deported back to Russia, over 5500 in total.

Norway sends migrants back to Russia

Interestingly migration is the one area where I'm more inline with right-wing politics.



Happens here too, though we prefer to hunt ours down on the battlefield. Typically us Nordics favor rehabilitation over incarceration or execution, but there are always exceptions made.

We've actually been dealing with an ISIS-affiliated group recently called Profetens Ummah.

They're noisy and fortunately under constant watch. Regrettably however arbitrary detention isn't legal in Norway so they're free to go about their business until they break a law.

Thats funny, you would wait and watch till the experiment goes beyond a point of 'Irreversible reaction'

 

[vsdoc]

Unfortunately most aren't coming from the Middle East, though the Police Security Service (Norwegian domestic intelligence) has assessed that a handful of the groups members are Algerian born. Most however are European born, born to migrants, but European citizens regardless. From the UK, From Kosovo, from Norway, most aren't migrants but citizens of Europe which makes them harder to deal with due to freedom of migration clauses in the EU charter and the Norwegian deal with the EU. It also blunts the impact of deportation.

That said, the group only has a core of between 15-20 active members and an unknown number of sympathizers. Most of its "core" members were either killed fighting in Syria for ISIS or are imprisoned for criminal activity within Norway. Others have been deported, Omar Cheblal being one such individual and ended up in Greece. He later traveled to Syria and died while fighting there.

We can't blame migrants solely since most are European born and their parents aren't to blame for their radicalization.

Fortunately Norway has a strong domestic intelligence capability and cooperates on counter-terrorism with the 5 Eyes, so usually know what's up in our country. The same systems that earned us the moniker of "NATO's Northern Eyes" gives us the capability to turn those eyes and ears within, rather then pointed at our pesky Eastern neighbor.

In Norway Islam has seen an increase of 26.5% since 2011. This still represents a paltry 2% of our religious population trailing the Church of Norway by over 70%, but the growth isn't due to an influx of Muslims or citizens converting, it's largely due to Norway becoming less religious in recent years and that balances out the statistics making Islam seem greater in numbers and growth by comparison.

To say it's the fastest growing religion in Norway wouldn't be wrong, but proper context needs to be establish or people get the wrong notions in their head.



It's mostly France and the UK, Norway actually has very strict migration policies. While Sweden has a reputation for accepting anyone with a pulse and that's turned around and bit them in the butt badly, historically and currently Norway's been more closed off to outsiders. We've opened up a bit in recent years to legal migration, but we still deport thousands every year who either come illegally or overstay their welcome (work visa expiration for instance). I wont tell you there isn't a problem with migration either since we do sometimes get some bad seeds, but that's something France and the UK have a greater problem with then we do.

Thanks Fox.

Although I'm not really convinced about two things.

1) In my eyes, the European born child of a migrant from countries with toxic ideologies is still more migrant than European. It's always blood that's thicker. Always. Their first allegiance is to their faith and not to the lighter skinned aliens they live amongst.

And linked to this first point, and what tips them over the edge, once again, blood being thicker ....

2) I'm not at all convinced that the parents and the immediate household of those that go radical are not responsible nor that they have not contributed.

The right cocktail of the above two is where you have the fertile conditions for the growth of a radical.

We've seen it India in our home grown same-race living-on-ancestral-land populace.

Europe's situation is a lot more dire. Even though the numbers are still not there.

P.S. And in their eyes it does not matter whether Europe is increasingly moving away from Christianity and the people may not be actively practicing believers. To them you will be and remain Christians. Until you convert to Islam.

I do not agree with most of what the Wolfpack comes up with, but in this I agree. And shake my head in disbelief.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Fox]

Recruits from the 6th Guard Company of His Majesty the King's Guard get instructions on marksmanship from students of the Norwegian Army's Officer School during a cross training exercise.

Thats funny, you would wait and watch till the experiment goes beyond a point of 'Irreversible reaction'

The issue is that ideologies aren't illegal, acting on them is. We have a problem with far-right groups too, so if we act against a group like Profetens Ummah, we must do so against individuals like Breivik too, and groups with similar viewpoints like Zorn 88.

In the Western world we value freedom of speech and expression, not as religiously as our American friends do for the most part, but part of that reverence and respect for alternative viewpoints is laws to protect you having them. While there are people I'd rather we just round up and dump in the ocean a la Pinochet, the reality is that until a crime is committed we tolerate radical views. I'd also like to say that while the focus on this forum is radical Islam, I understand why from your viewpoint, Norway historically has seen elevated levels of violence from its Far-right, not Islamic population.

1) In my eyes, the European born child of a migrant from countries with toxic ideologies is still more migrant than European.

If that's the case we'd best start kicking out Germans and Brits too. As I wrote to Aravind, we've been having more issues with the Far-right and people like Breivik whose philosophies come from Neo-Nazism and Pan-Scandinavian. That's a toxic ideology that lead to 77 deaths - which I saw first hand as part of the medical response team on Utoya - toxic ideologies come from everywhere, so by that metric they'd all be non-Norwegian or non-European, depending on their point of origins.

Absent migrants from the Middle East or North Africa and we've still our own toxic ideologies, home grown ones like hardcore Pan-Scandinavianism. Groups like Zorn 88 and the Nordic resistance Movement want to forcibly remove any non-Scandinavian from our countries - Germans, Brits, Americans, etc - and form the Scandinavian countries into a single, unified ethno-superstate. This is the same nonsense that we saw with the Germans during their expansion during WWII and that which fomented during the Yugoslav Wars and carries on to this day in the Baltics.

I'll admit to being a Pan-Nordic, but not in the sense that I want everyone who's not Icelandic, Danish, Swedish, Finnish or Norwegian out of our countries and for us to form into a single Nordic Union for Nordics only, but that I'd like to see improved cooperation within the Nordic countries and have our bloc put itself first, even over our partners like the United States or UK. I'd rather our economic and geo-political goals focus first and foremost on bettering the Nordics.

*The Nordic Resistance Movement has been banned in Finland for being a hate group. Its members were required to undergo combat and weapons training and became increasingly violent towards any non-Nordics, not just ME or NA migrants.

2) I'm not at all convinced that the parents and the immediate household of those that go radical are not responsible nor that they have not contributed.

I look at it not from a philosophical point of view, but one of jurisprudence. Generally the courts have found that the parents of a radicalist person weren't culpable in their radicalism. And while I agree that parents can always do more to steer their children in a certain direction, as a parent I know that I have a role to play in my daughters upbringing and the establishment of her views as she grows, or warn authorities when they've gone to far, we see that radicalism is more self-starting and self-sustaining then ingrained or the fault of bad parenting. Breivik hardly needed his parents to foster Neo-nazi beliefs in him or urge him to act on them, he did that himself.

Might be considered illegal in European standards but many SA and Arabic countries clamp on such thoughts vigorously.

True, but it's hardly as if said Arabic countries don't have issues with radicalism themselves. A crackdown only drives an ideology underground, it doesn't snuff it out. In Egypt for instance the Muslim Brotherhood was on the ascendance after the Arab Spring revolts. Now it's back in the shadows after being cracked down upon by the current Egyptian government who's a more hostile stance towards the group.

 

[Vergennes]

We are also getting our hands on these !

And so legionnaires.

@Parthu

 

[Fox]

Is that the only optic option? I can't say I've seen a reflex sight like that in Norwegian service, even on our MP7s is a small scope or red dot (shared with some HK416 models).

We have our pick of a few sights.

Here's an MP7 sight (Aimpoint T1 Micro I believe) on an HK416.

 

[Vergennes]

Is that the only optic option? I can't say I've seen a reflex sight like that in Norwegian service, even on our MP7s is a small scope or red dot (shared with some HK416 models).

We have our pick of a few sights.

The French army is currently looking for new optics to replace the EOTech. For now,the soldiers are simply re-using them on their new HK416s.

The aimpoint CompM5 is among the known options.

 

[bonobashi]

Recruits from the 6th Guard Company of His Majesty the King's Guard get instructions on marksmanship from students of the Norwegian Army's Officer School during a cross training exercise.

The issue is that ideologies aren't illegal, acting on them is. We have a problem with far-right groups too, so if we act against a group like Profetens Ummah, we must do so against individuals like Breivik too, and groups with similar viewpoints like Zorn 88.

In the Western world we value freedom of speech and expression, not as religiously as our American friends do for the most part, but part of that reverence and respect for alternative viewpoints is laws to protect you having them. While there are people I'd rather we just round up and dump in the ocean a la Pinochet, the reality is that until a crime is committed we tolerate radical views. I'd also like to say that while the focus on this forum is radical Islam, I understand why from your viewpoint, Norway historically has seen elevated levels of violence from its Far-right, not Islamic population.



If that's the case we'd best start kicking out Germans and Brits too. As I wrote to Aravind, we've been having more issues with the Far-right and people like Breivik whose philosophies come from Neo-Nazism and Pan-Scandinavian. That's a toxic ideology that lead to 77 deaths - which I saw first hand as part of the medical response team on Utoya - toxic ideologies come from everywhere, so by that metric they'd all be non-Norwegian or non-European, depending on their point of origins.

Absent migrants from the Middle East or North Africa and we've still our own toxic ideologies, home grown ones like hardcore Pan-Scandinavianism. Groups like Zorn 88 and the Nordic resistance Movement want to forcibly remove any non-Scandinavian from our countries - Germans, Brits, Americans, etc - and form the Scandinavian countries into a single, unified ethno-superstate. This is the same nonsense that we saw with the Germans during their expansion during WWII and that which fomented during the Yugoslav Wars and carries on to this day in the Baltics.

I'll admit to being a Pan-Nordic, but not in the sense that I want everyone who's not Icelandic, Danish, Swedish, Finnish or Norwegian out of our countries and for us to form into a single Nordic Union for Nordics only, but that I'd like to see improved cooperation within the Nordic countries and have our bloc put itself first, even over our partners like the United States or UK. I'd rather our economic and geo-political goals focus first and foremost on bettering the Nordics.

*The Nordic Resistance Movement has been banned in Finland for being a hate group. Its members were required to undergo combat and weapons training and became increasingly violent towards any non-Nordics, not just ME or NA migrants.



I look at it not from a philosophical point of view, but one of jurisprudence. Generally the courts have found that the parents of a radicalist person weren't culpable in their radicalism. And while I agree that parents can always do more to steer their children in a certain direction, as a parent I know that I have a role to play in my daughters upbringing and the establishment of her views as she grows, or warn authorities when they've gone to far, we see that radicalism is more self-starting and self-sustaining then ingrained or the fault of bad parenting. Breivik hardly needed his parents to foster Neo-nazi beliefs in him or urge him to act on them, he did that himself.



True, but it's hardly as if said Arabic countries don't have issues with radicalism themselves. A crackdown only drives an ideology underground, it doesn't snuff it out. In Egypt for instance the Muslim Brotherhood was on the ascendance after the Arab Spring revolts. Now it's back in the shadows after being cracked down upon by the current Egyptian government who's a more hostile stance towards the group.

Don't get it wrong, but we have the exact same problem.

 

[vsdoc]

In the Western world we value freedom of speech and expression, not as religiously as our American friends do for the most part, but part of that reverence and respect for alternative viewpoints is laws to protect you having them. While there are people I'd rather we just round up and dump in the ocean a la Pinochet, the reality is that until a crime is committed we tolerate radical views. I'd also like to say that while the focus on this forum is radical Islam, I understand why from your viewpoint, Norway historically has seen elevated levels of violence from its Far-right, not Islamic population.

When it came to stamping out Islamic terror from their homeland post 9/11, all of those ideals and values went out of the window for the Americans.

And rightly so.

I agree mainland Europe nor the UK have had a 9/11 yet. A few beheadings. Some stabbings. Some bus bombings. Some concert shootings. Nothing yet to scale.

But take it from countries that have been hit big. There is a difference. And Europe is playing with fire.

Actually, Europe has already played with the fire. Just that the burning has not yet begun.

If that's the case we'd best start kicking out Germans and Brits too. As I wrote to Aravind, we've been having more issues with the Far-right and people like Breivik whose philosophies come from Neo-Nazism and Pan-Scandinavian. That's a toxic ideology that lead to 77 deaths - which I saw first hand as part of the medical response team on Utoya - toxic ideologies come from everywhere, so by that metric they'd all be non-Norwegian or non-European, depending on their point of origins.

Absent migrants from the Middle East or North Africa and we've still our own toxic ideologies, home grown ones like hardcore Pan-Scandinavianism. Groups like Zorn 88 and the Nordic resistance Movement want to forcibly remove any non-Scandinavian from our countries - Germans, Brits, Americans, etc - and form the Scandinavian countries into a single, unified ethno-superstate. This is the same nonsense that we saw with the Germans during their expansion during WWII and that which fomented during the Yugoslav Wars and carries on to this day in the Baltics.

I'll admit to being a Pan-Nordic, but not in the sense that I want everyone who's not Icelandic, Danish, Swedish, Finnish or Norwegian out of our countries and for us to form into a single Nordic Union for Nordics only, but that I'd like to see improved cooperation within the Nordic countries and have our bloc put itself first, even over our partners like the United States or UK. I'd rather our economic and geo-political goals focus first and foremost on bettering the Nordics.

*The Nordic Resistance Movement has been banned in Finland for being a hate group. Its members were required to undergo combat and weapons training and became increasingly violent towards any non-Nordics, not just ME or NA migrants.

While Breivik might have become the poster-boy of the "see, its not just Islamic terror" thought stream, most people from communities and people that have really been hit by Islamic terror will tell you that it is simply not the same thing.

I think with this surge from the ME, Europe truly has gone past the tipping point. You do not have the numbers that countries like China, India and America do. You also do not have the fertility to keep the demographics stable state.

You will see the effects in a generation. Max. But by then you will be in a fight. A fight you created.

That is the inevitable reality most across the world who have seen Islamic terror at close quarters can see. But many of you still cannot. Or will not.

I look at it not from a philosophical point of view, but one of jurisprudence. Generally the courts have found that the parents of a radicalist person weren't culpable in their radicalism. And while I agree that parents can always do more to steer their children in a certain direction, as a parent I know that I have a role to play in my daughters upbringing and the establishment of her views as she grows, or warn authorities when they've gone to far, we see that radicalism is more self-starting and self-sustaining then ingrained or the fault of bad parenting. Breivik hardly needed his parents to foster Neo-nazi beliefs in him or urge him to act on them, he did that himself.

Again, I do not agree. Nor am I getting into the legalities of it. It is as basic as how a child grows up looking at others who are not his own.

As basic as how he learns the concept of what not his own means.

That forms the base plinth. Some build on it from there. Many others do not.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Fox]

Norwegian special forces - WWII Partisan and modern day FSK.

Norwegian Navy Special Forces - MJK.

 

[Fox]

MJK - Marinejegerkommandoen - is the Norwegian Navy's equivalent of the American Navy Seals, British SBS and Russian Marine Commando Frogmen.

MJK is known to have members currently deployed in Afghanistan, and likely in Iraq, where it frequently provides direct support to the Afghan Special Police Crisis Response Unit 222 (including the Park Palace attack in 2015 and Kabul Intercontinental Hotel attack in 2018), which itself is trained by Norwegian police advisers and special forces.

The Norwegian Army's FSK and Norwegian Navy's KJK are also active in overseas hotspots.

 

[Fox]

In the first post of the thread I mentioned we're getting new artillery guns. That would be the K9 Thunder of South Korea shown here during trials at the Norwegian Army's Camp Rena.

The K9 will replace the Norwegian Army's current M109A3GNMs.

 

[Fox]

Also being replaced are the Royal Norwegian Navy's aging Ula class submarines (Type 210). They first entered Norwegian service in 1989, but underwent a deep modernization from 2006-2008 and again starting in 2012.

I can not tell you just how rare it is to see the rudder arrangement on the Ula, x-shaped rather then the cruciform plan of the Type 209 and Type 214.

Yes the Royal Norwegian Navy has female submariners.

The Ula's replacement will be based on the German Type 212A design, but will be modified to suit Norway's requirements and modernized with more up-to-date systems. Germany and Norway are both purchasing the new submarines under a joint contract to lower production and development costs.

 

[Fox]

Norwegian Minister of Defence Frank Bakke-Jensen in Afghanistan between 29 and 30 January, 2018 on a visit with Norwegian special forces and their Norwegian trained Afghan partners of the Crisis Response Unit 222.

 

[Fox]

Standing NATO Maritime Group 1 Commander Petter Kammerhuber hands over charge of the fleet to his Danish counterpart Søren Thinggard Larsen. Command shifts from the Norwegian Navy's KNM Otto Sverdrup to the Danish Navy's HDMS Niels Juel.

 

[Fox]

CV90 IED survival testing.

 

[Fox]

Norway currently operates several P-3 types. Four P-3Cs are dedicated MPAs while two P-3Ns are modified to support Coast Guard operations such as assisting distressed swimmers or stricken vessels.

The P-3s, this being a "C" model of the 333 Squadron flying over Senja in northern Norway in early January, 2018, are another item that's on its final legs. They'll be replaced by the American designed P-8A in the coming years.

Speaking of the P-8, United States Navy Poseidons already frequent Andøya air station for ASW and surveillance flights in the North Atlantic and Arctic Oceans.

 

[vsdoc]

Standing NATO Maritime Group 1 Commander Petter Kammerhuber hands over charge of the fleet to his Danish counterpart Søren Thinggard Larsen. Command shifts from the Norwegian Navy's KNM Otto Sverdrup to the Danish Navy's HDMS Niels Juel.

What an impressive building!

Cheers, Doc

 

[Dr. Fox]

Flying with the 330 SAR Squadron.