People's Liberation Army Air Force : News & Discussions

[randomradio]

Our response to these 2 new aircraft: Nothing.

At least as of now.

The IAF is aware of all such next gen plans, so there is no urgency to ape the Chinese. We cannot afford to chase them in this area, and doing so will keep us technologically behind. The Americans are a step ahead anyway. And, as mentioned ages ago, plus on the AHCA thread, we have to skip this generation. We have to jump straight from AMCA to a 7th gen jet, basically a near-space or space fighter, a program that can start sometime around 2035-40.

LCA Mk1A and Mk2 as usual. MRFA should begin early-mid next year for a 2028-29 contract with serial deliveries from 2032-33. Followed by AMCA.

If there is any dearth in capability, limited imports are always available as an option, but does not need to be exercised looking at things right now. Rafale and AMCA are more than enough in this half of the century. The only area of worry is a super high altitude near-hypersonic or a fully hypersonic fighter, and we are focusing on this area with indigenous capabilities already, hence the skip to next gen.

For now, what's more important is developing and deploying air defences against hypersonic targets, both tactical and strategic. BMD Phase 3 will give us the latter, and I'm hoping Kusha provides the former.

And now it's become important to have our third carrier up and running so we always have at least 2 carriers ready during wartime well before 2035. Both upcoming light and heavy stealth bombers are real threats in the BD-Myanmar-ANC axis.

 

[randomradio]

I'm just being realistic. Chinese don't have the material science of the west. Not yet. Both the j-20 and J-xx have more range than the f-22 but stealth is still up for questioning.

Much more important than stealth is sustainment. It's not just about developing technology, they need the ability to sustain operations throughout the course of a war. There's absolutely no point if they have sacrificed that for tech. That's what turns into a paperweight within a week.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

This is basically the answer to the range vs endurance design I have been talking about on the AHCA thread.

We do not have a need for this type of jet yet, but the Chinese and Americans definitely do.




We don't have to change our procurement plans. The IAF knows about all this stuff already.

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

 

[randomradio]

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Do you believe Rafale cannot compete?

 

[Picdelamirand-oil]

Do you believe Rafale cannot compete?

Dassault also had a period when it produced a lot of prototypes with different aerodynamic formulas. Very few of these aircraft gave rise to a real programme, but they all made it possible to test solutions that led to achievements included in the programmes that were launched. Today, Dassault is exploring these possibilities with digital aircraft.

 

[randomradio]

Dassault also had a period when it produced a lot of prototypes with different aerodynamic formulas. Very few of these aircraft gave rise to a real programme, but they all made it possible to test solutions that led to achievements included in the programmes that were launched. Today, Dassault is exploring these possibilities with digital aircraft.

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The 6th gen's range is a pretty worrying factor. It manages to suppress the J-20's disadvantages over Tibet. A 3000+ km range from Chengdu, Kashghar, Kunming, and Korla covers almost all of India even without standoff weapons. It's probably been designed to attack Guam, but at the same time pretty much the entire fleet can attack all the relevant targets in India from any part of China without the use of refuelling.

Just last week I was talking about how the Chinese need to make jets that do not rely on refuelling to gain some equality with India, and here comes this new light bomber.

 

[randomradio]

A reminder to all. In Chinese parlance, J-20 is 4th gen, this new fighter could be 5th gen and what they call 6th gen is a hypersonic fighter, which is our 7th gen.

So you can expect some confusion between Western and Chinese sources when referring to generations over the coming days.

 

[Speedster1]

They are still undecided on whether they want something three times more expensive than the F-35 or something as cheap. They have left it for Trump to decide.

Trump is going to throw a hissy fit as he did when comparing EMALS vs steam cats for US carriers. It doesn't help that people like Musk who think drones were better/more survivable than F-35 are now in his inner circle.

I don't know what turn NGAD might take but the USN clearly won't compromise on a long range, heavy-duty F/A-XX, esp in light with China's own advancements.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Saurav Jha & Sriram Thyagarajan come up with a real banger of an episode spending a good 35-40 min appraising the latest Chinese offering & how does it affect the balance across the Himalayas for us .

For starters this Chengdu offering named J-36 isn't a 6th Gen as long is it is powered by the WS-15 which is a 4.5th Gen TF but the Chinese have improvised to come up with a tri engine system to compensate for it .

This also obviously means a VCE TF is in the making which would make an appearance sooner rather than later .

All this & much more to be found in the episode. In fact the entire episode is gold .

 

[_Anonymous_]

India has localized enough, they have produced jaguar, they have produced MIG-21, they have produced SU30, now most of the aircraft are required to be produced in India, but this model can only be turned into an assembly plant, India has not made its own improvements to these aircraft, this is different from China, and why China can make progress

Why don't you do yourself a favour & spare us reading trash by reading up yourself on the DARIN upgrades of the Jaguar , the MKI sation of the Su-30 & the Super Sukhoi upgrade now besides the MiG -21 upgrades in the 1990s we'd undertaken.

Apart from the last part , the other two are covered in this very forum in some detail. Read it & stop embarassing yourself.

To be fair, let's compare China's second homegrown fighter, the JH-7,
It first flew in 1988 and entered PLA service in 1992, only four years later

Why don't you mention the torturous process you went through with development of the MiG-21 & it's various variants , right thru the 1960s , 70s & 80s when the USSR left you with only half the blue prints & shop drawings for the MiG-21 after the great fallout between the USSR & China , apart from the know-how & technology collaboration between China & the West especially UK for the Spey engines among other items which came to an end with the Tiananmen Square massacre ?

This journey of the JH-7 didn't happen in a vaccum much like you want us to believe. In fact like most of the other Fighter Aircrafts you developed then it was more or less junk finding favour only with 3rd world countries which couldn't afford even stuff from the USSR but you were improving your abilities with each such iteration & every new offering .

 

[LX1111]

Why don't you mention the torturous process you went through with development of the MiG-21 & it's various variants , right thru the 1960s , 70s & 80s when the USSR left you with only half the blue prints & shop drawings for the MiG-21 after the great fallout between the USSR & China , apart from the know-how & technology collaboration between China & the West especially UK for the Spey engines among other items which came to an end with the Tiananmen Square massacre ?

This journey of the JH-7 didn't happen in a vaccum much like you want us to believe. In fact like most of the other Fighter Aircrafts you developed then it was more or less junk finding favour only with 3rd world countries which couldn't afford even stuff from the USSR but you were improving your abilities with each such iteration & every new offering

The problem is that China only got part of the MiG-21 production line under Khrushchev, Then they only got some prototypes from Egypt and North Korea, and India got all three MiG 21s, This led China to have to fumble the production and development of the MiG-21, thus training the aviation talent team, including today's Chengdu Design Institute, The first fighter was also the J-7
India, on the other hand, was only produced with Soviet technology and equipment. Although India has produced a more advanced MIG 21 than the J-7, All India has done is assemble and produce some basic parts. India didn't make own improvements to the MIG 21

 

[LX1111]

Why don't you do yourself a favour & spare us reading trash by reading up yourself on the DARIN upgrades of the Jaguar , the MKI sation of the Su-30 & the Super Sukhoi upgrade now besides the MiG -21 upgrades in the 1990s we'd undertaken.

Apart from the last part , the other two are covered in this very forum in some detail. Read it & stop embarassing yourself

What is the escalation in India? Replace the old Soviet equipment with Western electronics, that's all. Will India redesign a MIG 21 to improve mobility，like J7E? No, All India does is assemble,
Of course now India is trying to produce some of its own electronic equipment, which is a positive development
India has not trained its design team at all in the long process of localization

 

[_Anonymous_]

The problem is that China only got part of the MiG-21 production line under Khrushchev, Then they only got some prototypes from Egypt and North Korea, and India got all three MiG 21s, This led China to have to fumble the production and development of the MiG-21, thus training the aviation talent team, including today's Chengdu Design Institute, The first fighter was also the J-7
India, on the other hand, was only produced with Soviet technology and equipment. Although India has produced a more advanced MIG 21 than the J-7, All India has done is assemble and produce some basic parts. India didn't make own improvements to the MIG 21
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We didn't make improvements to the MiG-21 to honour the terms of the contract with the USSR . Do you know what the terms "honour the terms of a contract " means ?

It means no copying or stealing designs .

Where we had the permission to go ahead & make modifications like in the Jaguar we did it . The Jaguar we now have is easily one of the best low level deep penetration strike aircraft that our constant tinkering with it has resulted in , except age has now more or less caught up with it .

 

[LX1111]

We didn't make improvements to the MiG-21 to honour the terms of the contract with the USSR . Do you know what the terms "honour the terms of a contract " means ?

It means no copying or stealing designs .

Where we had the permission to go ahead & make modifications like in the Jaguar we did it . The Jaguar we now have is easily one of the best low level deep penetration strike aircraft that our constant tinkering with it has resulted in , except age has now more or less caught up with it .

hehe,You can now accuse China of stealing Russian designs, no problem, after all, it is not China that is begging France for more Dassault Rafale

 

[_Anonymous_]

What is the escalation in India? Replace the old Soviet equipment with Western electronics, that's all. Will India redesign a MIG 21 to improve mobility，like J7E? No, All India does is assemble,
Of course now India is trying to produce some of its own electronic equipment, which is a positive development
India has not trained its design team at all in the long process of localization

MiG -21 is past its sell by date . All those learnings from " replacing Soviet equipment with western equipment" as you put it has resulted in learnings which brought about the LCA & the entire aviation eco system we've built around it which in turn has resulted in 4 new projects - the LCA Mk-1a which is a newer iteration of the Mk-1 , the LCA Mk-2 which for all practical purposes is a brand new aircraft , the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft or AMCA which is our 5.5 Gen Fighter Aircraft & the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter Aircraft or TEDBF

hehe,You can now accuse China of stealing Russian designs, no problem, after all, it is not China that is begging France for more Dassault Rafale

Begging means they give it to us for free. This also means we've approached them & they haven't responded or turned us down . Please post evidence for your claim otherwise you're just a cheap troll & even then you're not an original one like everything Chinese.

 

[LX1111]

Dassault also had a period when it produced a lot of prototypes with different aerodynamic formulas. Very few of these aircraft gave rise to a real programme, but they all made it possible to test solutions that led to achievements included in the programmes that were launched. Today, Dassault is exploring these possibilities with digital aircraft.

View attachment 39214

View attachment 39215​

The Dassault jet is more similar to the Shenyang design, both using Lambda wings, but China uses a variable vertical tail. Vertical tail in peacetime with the main wing level to maintain high stealth, WVR change the angle to ensure high maneuverability, which is much more advanced than the requirements, Shenyang Company reflects the higher level of flight control design and aerodynamic control

 

[LX1111]

MiG -21 is past its sell by date . All those learnings from " replacing Soviet equipment with western equipment" as you put it has resulted in learnings which brought about the LCA & the entire aviation eco system we've built around it which in turn has resulted in 4 new projects - the LCA Mk-1a which is a newer iteration of the Mk-1 , the LCA Mk-2 which for all practical purposes is a brand new aircraft , the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft or AMCA which is our 5.5 Gen Fighter Aircraft & the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter Aircraft or TEDBF

Begging means they give it to us for free. This also means we've approached them & they haven't responded or turned us down . Please post evidence for your claim otherwise you're just a cheap troll & even then you're not an original one like everything Chinese.

Let's not talk about the Future. AFter all, India is good at bragging about its Future. Let's talk about when India will get F 404. When will Dassault have the new capacity to produce India's RaFale? 2028?

 

[_Anonymous_]

Let's not talk about the Future. AFter all, India is good at bragging about its Future. Let's talk about when India will get F 404. When will Dassault have the new capacity to produce India's RaFale? 2028?

Let's talk about your future since this thread is on the PLAAF not the IAF . At the rate you're going , I'm guessing you'd be launching your 7th Gen - one from Chengdu & one from Shenyang each in the next 3-4 years by which time hopefully the J-20 would have got its FOC .

It's still too early for the J-35 / FC-31 to get the FOC & at the rate you're going we won't be surprised in the least if same time 2034 you come out with your 8th Gen & your 6th Gen would still not have received its FOC by which time the J-35 / FC-31 would've hopefully gotten its FOC .

 

[LX1111]

Until WS-15 is fully ready, don't think they can still match US 6th gen platforms with AETP based engines. And even with WS-15 it'll still best be 6- gen plane.

Sorry to our elated Chinese members, but there ain't no 6th gen jet without proper 6th gen engines. Hard but true reality.

Make sure the variable cycle engine is ready for test flight by 2030 and ready by 2035. Refer to J 20, maybe even faster