Project-76 Indigenous Diesel-electric Submarine (SSK) Program

[Ankit Kumar]

Just a small correction: I think you meant type 214 rather than type 216.
As far as I'm aware, type 216 never progressed beyond the conceptual stage.

While Germany and Italy operate the Type 212A which is more stealthy because of it's non magnetic hull, the type 214 has much longer range, depth and endurance suited for our needs along with being longer. Our Type 214 might also incorporate technologies from the Type 212CG being developed for the Norwegian and German Navies.

That said, I do agree it's worth discussing a mix of additional Scorpènes and German submarines would provide the best balance between fleet numbers, capability, and technology absorption.

The CD, the Dakar, the 218, everything TKMS has sold after the baseline 214 is a derivative of the 216 concept.

Now what is coming in p75i, i cannot say for sure. But what I last remember discussing with Ashwin is that it's not exactly 214 or a derivative of 214.

 

[Parthu]

But aip do take money, space and weight and volume

Why not just use those resources and add a bigger li-ion battery ?

Thats what Japanese did.

Anyways what u said, "Best of both world" is already in any aip subs except of li-ion its lead acid and its low energy dense

As lead acid was low energy dense hence having seperate aip was good idea but now with li-ion(and then ssb) , we can get 2-3 weeks of underwater as low speed with only li-ion


Infact i would say, semi sold state batteries are produced at industrial scale

We should get them,
they are much safer than li-ion or aip or any thing else

They also offer much better energy density and much better cycle life

My opinion:
go with semi sold for first 6 boat and fully solid with next 6(obv x shape rudder and all other things are necessary too)

We dont want/need 2000s submarine(scorpion) in 2035

Just because it fits Japan's use-case doesn't mean it's the solution for everyone. It depends on what our requirements are.

As I said, KSS-III uses an AIP+LIB setup, as that fits the Korean requirement. Our P-75I specifically required AIP + LIB:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1449312978667380736

Among other upcoming boats, the Type-212CD (for Germany & Norway) also uses a Fuel Cell AIP + LIB setup. So it's apparent that there are several merits to this type of setup. The Japanese may consider LIB-only configuration as sufficient for their use case in the littorals of the First Island Chain or close by, but the same need not be true for everyone else.

 

[Ashwin]

 

[Ankit Kumar]

AIP for drip charge and Li Ion batteries for better efficiency. Good.

 

[YoungWolf]

The biggest irony is that our scorpenes still don't have AIP. While the pakistanis have 2 submarine classes with AIP's.
And we have members here who are crying about the French milking us instead of pointing out the ridiculous procurement process.
Also our scorpenes still don't have any actual offensive capabilities.

Reported as of March this year, INS Khanderi (2nd of the lot) will head towards the refit this July, and is set to be the 1st one to receive the DRDO AIP. The AIP plug addition is expected to be completed by the end of this year.

https://www.business-standard.com/external-affairs-defence-security/news/indian-navy-s-first-aip-equipped-submarine-to-be-ready-by-year-end-126030601080_1.html

Big Boost to Indian Navy: Indigenous AIP System to Power INS Khanderi by 2026

The Indian Navy is enhancing its underwater capabilities with the installation of an indigenous Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system on the INS Khanderi submarine by the end of 2026. , India News, Times Now

www.timesnownews.com

 

[Choice_of _inevitability]

Reported as of March this year, INS Khanderi (2nd of the lot) will head towards the refit this July, and is set to be the 1st one to receive the DRDO AIP. The AIP plug addition is expected to be completed by the end of this year

Same for heavy torps. They were part of the same deal. Naval Group is to help MDL integrate both EHWT and AIP.
NMRL's fuel cell based AIP is far quieter than anything Pakistanis are fielding. That'll give the navy some of its underwater edge. Now if they can sort out P75I and P76 in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[Speedster1]

Reported as of March this year, INS Khanderi (2nd of the lot) will head towards the refit this July, and is set to be the 1st one to receive the DRDO AIP. The AIP plug addition is expected to be completed by the end of this year.

https://www.business-standard.com/external-affairs-defence-security/news/indian-navy-s-first-aip-equipped-submarine-to-be-ready-by-year-end-126030601080_1.html

Big Boost to Indian Navy: Indigenous AIP System to Power INS Khanderi by 2026

The Indian Navy is enhancing its underwater capabilities with the installation of an indigenous Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system on the INS Khanderi submarine by the end of 2026. , India News, Times Now

www.timesnownews.com

Big vote of confidence from the IN.

As per some reports, NMRLs AIP was earlier going to be tested at sea on an old Kilo class hull before going aboard an operational boat.

Same for heavy torps. They were part of the same deal. Naval Group is to help MDL integrate both EHWT and AIP.
NMRL's fuel cell based AIP is far quieter than anything Pakistanis are fielding. That'll give the navy some of its underwater edge. Now if they can sort out P75I and P76 in a reasonable timeframe.

Apparently, Malaysian Scorpenes are already integrated with Black Shark torps. So the Kalvaris will likely get theirs almost as soon the first batch arrives.

The IN also has an RfI out for a new SLCM which could well find its way to the Kalvari class, esp if the IN picks Scalp Naval.

 

[Parthu]

Last week's Chakra News episode has an interesting thumbnail art of the P-76 (the image isn't actually shown in the video, only in the thumbnail):

It's quite obviously AI-generated (possibly using the display model handed to Modi as a reference), but it's interesting nevertheless.