That's what we are doing now, but with our own electronics.
It's a military aircraft.
Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions
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That's what we are doing now, but with our own electronics.
It's a military aircraft.
Yeah, and will be ready by 20xy. When requirment was initiated around 2005, we started developing in 2021, great.
Ys it is, it's like President of India is the supreme commander of armed forces. A decorative position,that aircraft's military status is also a decorative one.
I can smell a bigger Rafale deal coming up in a few months....
By seeing the Russian airforce performance over Ukrain, MKI's performance over j&k on feb 27 one can easily make a conclusion that IAF with present Russian inventories is nothing but a parade aerobatic team. You need Rafale or F35s or legacy teen fighters to turn IAF in to a fighting force ( its high time for us to call indian airforce "IAF", IAF from Israel had a far better reputation). But problem is the big chunk of illiterate MPs will understand this or not.
I can smell a bigger Rafale deal coming up in a few months....
India needs 200-250 Rafales to maintain edge: Arup Raha
New Delhi: Outgoing Indian Air Force (IAF) chief Arup Raha on Wednesday made it clear that just 36 Rafale fighter jets would not suffice as India needs about 200-250 more fighters to maintain its combat edge over adversaries. The air chief marshal, who is set to retire on 31 December, also rued that the tender for the much needed “force multiplier" mid air refuellers had to be withdrawn.
He said a fresh tender is in the offing and the procurement will be speeded up. Underlining that the teeth of any air force is the combat fleet, Raha said that the country needs another production line besides the Tejas. He explained that the strength sanctioned by the government is 42 squadrons “which was a numerical value. He said what is needed “is also a capability mix".
Raha said India has enough of heavy weight fighters—the Su30 MKI—which will last for another 30-40 years. He said the light weight spectrum would be served by the 123 Tejas light combat aircraft ordered by the IAF. Terming Rafale as an excellent aircraft, Raha said it comes in the medium weight spectrum.
“It is tremendously capable in all its role. It is a multi-role aircraft and can be used very effectively. It can prove its worth in any situation," Raha said. “But we have just ordered 36 aircraft and we require more aircraft in this middle weight category to give entire spectrum of capability," he said.
Raha said a void has been created in the past because of obsolescence and many of the squadrons will be past their use-by date. “We have already used them for four decades plus. It is time to retire them and get new aircraft," he said adding this void has to be filled up quickly and 36 Rafale aircraft “will not do as we require much more".
“Over the next 10 years, we must have 200-250 aircraft. It has to be balanced out. In the heavy weight spectrum, we have enough. But in the medium weight category, we need to have more. Yes, about 200 will be very good," he said.
Rafale engines during taxi, note the small burning glow at center. And the inner panels are separated from outer panels.
Nozzles at idle power
Nozzle at 100% mil-power. So the outer panels are flexible & smoothly overlap. The inner panels are the primary thrust contollers.
Nozzle in afterburner
Notice a ring of concentrated flame inside where hot gasses from combustion exit though a bottleneck.
Closeup of exhausts
Rafale engine diagram
Nozzles at idle power
Nozzle at 100% mil-power. So the outer panels are flexible & smoothly overlap. The inner panels are the primary thrust contollers.
Nozzle in afterburner
Notice a ring of concentrated flame inside where hot gasses from combustion exit though a bottleneck.
Closeup of exhausts
Rafale engine diagram
Rafale Marine : la France étudie la vente d'appareils d'occasion au profit de l'Inde
Rafale Marine: France is considering the sale of second-hand aircraft to India
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
France is considering the sale of four used Rafale Marine aircraft to India. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is expected in France shortly.
For several months, France has been studying the sale of used Rafale-Marines to encourage the signing of a new contract with India. In India, Dassault Aviation is currently participating in two tenders, one for the air force (114 aircraft), the other for the navy (up to 57 aircraft in several lots). In particular, the Indian Navy is to equip its first "Made in India" aircraft carrier, the INS Vikrant (262 m), which is due to enter service in 2023. As part of this tender, the Rafale Marine carried out very successful tests in January in Goa on a land platform. The French Navy was able to demonstrate all its know-how in the field of naval aviation (landing) and convinced the Indians of the Rafale Marine's performance. This aircraft would also enable the Indians to have a homogeneous fleet between the Rafale Air and the Rafale Marine.
According to concordant sources, the sale of four second-hand Rafale-Marines of the F3R standard is likely to give France a competitive advantage over the Americans. These four recently upgraded aircraft could indeed be quickly put into service on the Indian aircraft carrier. The Rafale Marine is well suited to the configuration of the Indian aircraft carrier in terms of size: in particular, it can easily use the lifts of the INS Vikrant. This would not be quite the case with its American rival, the Boeing F-18, which fits into the lifts of the Indian aircraft carrier (crosswise), explains La Tribune. As for the F-18, it has not completely finished its tests, even though they began last December. After some logistical setbacks, it should resume testing in May. India could make its decision at the end of the year for 26 aircraft, including two two-seater Air Force planes dedicated to training.
Capability gaps
The sale of second-hand Rafales poses a number of problems for the armed forces, which remain insufficiently equipped in terms of capabilities. This is particularly the case with the Rafale in the air force, which struggles to fulfil all missions in a conflicting geopolitical context. International tensions have highlighted the capability shortcomings of a country such as France, which aspires to play a role of referee but also to participate in coercive missions on the international scene. Before the conflict in Ukraine and before France's willingness to sell four second-hand Rafale Marines to India, the navy was already studying a plan to renew its Rafale fleet, the first of which entered service in 2002, while the air force's entered service in 2006.
"We are currently working with the air force to see what the consequences of exporting the Rafale to Croatia are in order to rebuild a five/seven year plan to know what the Navy needs. Post-LPM, in 25/30, the question will arise but the format will not change," explained the Chief of Staff of the French Navy, Admiral Pierre Vandier, in an interview with La Tribune in July 2021.
Since the delivery of its entire fleet, the Navy has not had any new aircraft. All the upgrading of the fleet has been done by retrofitting. "I note that there will be a scissor effect that we will see around 2030-2035: the combination of retrofits and the disappearance of the oldest aircraft may lead to a problem of format, which is 42 aircraft (currently 41)," said the Chief of Staff of the French Navy. The average age of the air force fleet is diverging from that of the navy, which has also lost four Rafales in operations since it was commissioned. "We are going to have many more old aircraft than the air force. To keep up with the standards, we have to retrofit more aircraft," said Admiral Vandier.
The possible sale of second-hand Rafales to India (10% of the French Navy's fleet) associated with a contract for 26 aircraft could finally launch the Navy's fleet renewal schedule. This would not completely displease the Navy. On condition that a French order is placed concomitantly with a possible contract with India. Clearly, this sale would allow the regeneration of the French Navy's fleet.
Parliamentary concerns
Finally, parliamentarians have expressed concern about the withdrawal of Rafales from the fleets of the armed forces. While MPs Patricia Mirallès (LREM) and Jean-Louis Thiériot (LR) welcomed the export success of the Rafale in a report on high-intensity readiness, "they wish to express their concerns about the consequences for our armed forces of these exports. This equipment is in fact partly taken from the capabilities of our armed forces. Thus, 24 Rafales (12 for Greece and 12 for Croatia) have been taken from the air force's fleet of 102. By the end of 2024, 27 Rafales will be delivered, followed by another 12 in 2025 to compensate for the Greek order. By the end of 2025, the air force will therefore have 117 Rafales instead of the 129 planned in the military programming law (LPM). Armed Forces Minister Florence Parly has pledged to place an order for 12 Rafales to compensate for the sale of second-hand aircraft to Croatia. "But when?" the two MEPs ask.
"Consequently, the rapporteurs believe it is essential to place orders enabling our armed forces to fully restore the capabilities they would have had in the absence of these exports. In the longer term, a fundamental reflection will have to be carried out by all the actors, in order to avoid that exports systematically result in a withdrawal from the stocks intended for our armed forces", the two rapporteurs consider.
Finally, they believe that the withdrawal of capabilities from the armed forces' stocks "cannot become a permanent solution, unless it weakens our armed forces in a structural way". "All avenues must therefore be explored, including those consisting in integrating a predictable quota for exports into public orders for our armed forces, as the Italians do," they emphasise. The new or the new Minister of the Armed Forces (Gérald Darmanin, or even Sébastien Lecornu or Jean-Michel Blanquer?) will have this priority file on his desk to settle. Both the Rafale file in the armies and the Rafale export files, starting with India.
This is fortunate, as the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi will be arriving in France very soon. He will be one of the very first foreign leaders, if not the first, to make a state visit to France, after the re-election of Emmanuel Macron. A visit that could revive some stalled issues between Paris and New Delhi, including that of a new sale of submarines. Especially since the Vagsheer, the last of the six P75 Scorpene class submarines, was launched a week ago on 20 April. The Vagsheer was built entirely by the Indian shipyard Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) thanks to a technology transfer from Naval Group. But today MDL, which has acquired this know-how and expertise, no longer has any industrial charges...
Michel Cabirol
Rafale Marine: France is considering the sale of second-hand aircraft to India
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
France is considering the sale of four used Rafale Marine aircraft to India. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi is expected in France shortly.
For several months, France has been studying the sale of used Rafale-Marines to encourage the signing of a new contract with India. In India, Dassault Aviation is currently participating in two tenders, one for the air force (114 aircraft), the other for the navy (up to 57 aircraft in several lots). In particular, the Indian Navy is to equip its first "Made in India" aircraft carrier, the INS Vikrant (262 m), which is due to enter service in 2023. As part of this tender, the Rafale Marine carried out very successful tests in January in Goa on a land platform. The French Navy was able to demonstrate all its know-how in the field of naval aviation (landing) and convinced the Indians of the Rafale Marine's performance. This aircraft would also enable the Indians to have a homogeneous fleet between the Rafale Air and the Rafale Marine.
According to concordant sources, the sale of four second-hand Rafale-Marines of the F3R standard is likely to give France a competitive advantage over the Americans. These four recently upgraded aircraft could indeed be quickly put into service on the Indian aircraft carrier. The Rafale Marine is well suited to the configuration of the Indian aircraft carrier in terms of size: in particular, it can easily use the lifts of the INS Vikrant. This would not be quite the case with its American rival, the Boeing F-18, which fits into the lifts of the Indian aircraft carrier (crosswise), explains La Tribune. As for the F-18, it has not completely finished its tests, even though they began last December. After some logistical setbacks, it should resume testing in May. India could make its decision at the end of the year for 26 aircraft, including two two-seater Air Force planes dedicated to training.
Capability gaps
The sale of second-hand Rafales poses a number of problems for the armed forces, which remain insufficiently equipped in terms of capabilities. This is particularly the case with the Rafale in the air force, which struggles to fulfil all missions in a conflicting geopolitical context. International tensions have highlighted the capability shortcomings of a country such as France, which aspires to play a role of referee but also to participate in coercive missions on the international scene. Before the conflict in Ukraine and before France's willingness to sell four second-hand Rafale Marines to India, the navy was already studying a plan to renew its Rafale fleet, the first of which entered service in 2002, while the air force's entered service in 2006.
"We are currently working with the air force to see what the consequences of exporting the Rafale to Croatia are in order to rebuild a five/seven year plan to know what the Navy needs. Post-LPM, in 25/30, the question will arise but the format will not change," explained the Chief of Staff of the French Navy, Admiral Pierre Vandier, in an interview with La Tribune in July 2021.
Since the delivery of its entire fleet, the Navy has not had any new aircraft. All the upgrading of the fleet has been done by retrofitting. "I note that there will be a scissor effect that we will see around 2030-2035: the combination of retrofits and the disappearance of the oldest aircraft may lead to a problem of format, which is 42 aircraft (currently 41)," said the Chief of Staff of the French Navy. The average age of the air force fleet is diverging from that of the navy, which has also lost four Rafales in operations since it was commissioned. "We are going to have many more old aircraft than the air force. To keep up with the standards, we have to retrofit more aircraft," said Admiral Vandier.
The possible sale of second-hand Rafales to India (10% of the French Navy's fleet) associated with a contract for 26 aircraft could finally launch the Navy's fleet renewal schedule. This would not completely displease the Navy. On condition that a French order is placed concomitantly with a possible contract with India. Clearly, this sale would allow the regeneration of the French Navy's fleet.
Parliamentary concerns
Finally, parliamentarians have expressed concern about the withdrawal of Rafales from the fleets of the armed forces. While MPs Patricia Mirallès (LREM) and Jean-Louis Thiériot (LR) welcomed the export success of the Rafale in a report on high-intensity readiness, "they wish to express their concerns about the consequences for our armed forces of these exports. This equipment is in fact partly taken from the capabilities of our armed forces. Thus, 24 Rafales (12 for Greece and 12 for Croatia) have been taken from the air force's fleet of 102. By the end of 2024, 27 Rafales will be delivered, followed by another 12 in 2025 to compensate for the Greek order. By the end of 2025, the air force will therefore have 117 Rafales instead of the 129 planned in the military programming law (LPM). Armed Forces Minister Florence Parly has pledged to place an order for 12 Rafales to compensate for the sale of second-hand aircraft to Croatia. "But when?" the two MEPs ask.
"Consequently, the rapporteurs believe it is essential to place orders enabling our armed forces to fully restore the capabilities they would have had in the absence of these exports. In the longer term, a fundamental reflection will have to be carried out by all the actors, in order to avoid that exports systematically result in a withdrawal from the stocks intended for our armed forces", the two rapporteurs consider.
Finally, they believe that the withdrawal of capabilities from the armed forces' stocks "cannot become a permanent solution, unless it weakens our armed forces in a structural way". "All avenues must therefore be explored, including those consisting in integrating a predictable quota for exports into public orders for our armed forces, as the Italians do," they emphasise. The new or the new Minister of the Armed Forces (Gérald Darmanin, or even Sébastien Lecornu or Jean-Michel Blanquer?) will have this priority file on his desk to settle. Both the Rafale file in the armies and the Rafale export files, starting with India.
This is fortunate, as the Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi will be arriving in France very soon. He will be one of the very first foreign leaders, if not the first, to make a state visit to France, after the re-election of Emmanuel Macron. A visit that could revive some stalled issues between Paris and New Delhi, including that of a new sale of submarines. Especially since the Vagsheer, the last of the six P75 Scorpene class submarines, was launched a week ago on 20 April. The Vagsheer was built entirely by the Indian shipyard Mazagon Dock Shipbuilders Limited (MDL) thanks to a technology transfer from Naval Group. But today MDL, which has acquired this know-how and expertise, no longer has any industrial charges...
Michel Cabirol
Rafale pilots relaxed in inclined seats
The pilot seems to be very close to MFDs. It is a very compact cockpit.
The pilot seems to be very close to MFDs. It is a very compact cockpit.
France does not have technology for 110kn dry thrust engine....
It's with afterburner...
With 110kn dry thrust you can have 165 to 170kn engine which can power a fighter which is bigger than PAKFA....
They had proposals for M-88-3 with 80-93KN for improved Gripen & M-88-4 with 95-105KN for heavier 1-engine fighter. IDK the progress on those.France does not have technology for 110kn dry thrust engine....
It's with afterburner...
With 110kn dry thrust you can have 165 to 170kn engine which can power a fighter which is bigger than PAKFA....
The problem with small EU nations so far is they didn't have the requirement of a big fighter hence that much powerful engine. They are not coming up with 1-engine fighter either like F-35, Su-75. Only now to close the gap with USA they have FCAS & Tempest on the cards with very specific customized engines which i don't think they will share with us. We need 2 classes of engines - 1 for AMCA, MWF, TEDBF & other even better for AHCA which can give 110+KN dry thrust. Engine technology can limit the entire jet design even if other components are developed up to date.
It's basically the same old news. It's about cutting the last 36 jets.
It's not a question of technology. It is harder to study and produce a small engine than a bigger one.France does not have technology for 110kn dry thrust engine....
France simply has no need of such an engine.