RMAF intercepts 16 Chinese air force planes over Malaysia

You naughty boy didn’t invite me to the party!
Sorry, forgot to tag you.
It doesn't matter, I still wish you a happy 75th.
Thanks. It was on 15th Aug.

On topic, I don't think anyone in here or out there doubts the technical competence of the Naval Group at all as @Ankit Kumar seems to hint .It's just their business practices which are attracting a lot of opprobrium, that too from multiple partners & which in my opinion isn't good for their reputation or their future.

Barely a decade ago, you had only 4 nations exporting submarine technology in conventional diesel electric submarines viz Germany, Russia, Sweden & France. Today you've to add SK , Spain, Japan & China to that list. In a decade from now or maybe 2 , there'd be India & in all probability Brazil on that list too , perhaps even Australia.
 
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practically everyone associated with Naval Group has had extremely nice things to say about them
counterexamples: neither egypt nor the uae nor singapore are complaining about NG.

I mean it was too much to expect the Anglo US alliance to sit by idly while you guys ripped the Aussies in broad daylight
officially, australia emphasised its changing techno-operational requirements and its willingness to switch from conventional to nuclear propulsion for submarines because of the evolving chinese threat. not for “costs&delays” reasons.

Barely a decade ago, you had only 4 nations exporting submarine technology in conventional diesel electric submarines viz Germany, Russia, Sweden & France. Today you've to add SK , Spain, Japan & China to that list. In a decade from now or maybe 2 , there'd be India & in all probability Brazil on that list too , perhaps even…
if australia goes ssn i think this will initiate an overall movement. it seems already planned that the next generation of korean submarines will be nuclear-powered. in this case, conventionally powered submarines will be less attractive.
and in this case french low-enriched uranium technology (which does not contravene the non-proliferation treaty) should be favoured.

at the moment, the australian soap opera reminds me of canada:
in the 1980s, france hoped to sell its nuclear attack submarines to canada. negotiations seemed to be on track. until the americans stepped in with a counter-proposal to lend or provide american nuclear submarines. the canadians then dropped the french contract. except that they never got a return from the americans, and they ended up having to buy used british conventional submarines that were not in good condition, which caused lots of problems for the canadian navy.
is history repeating?
 
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Naval group seems to rewriting How to win friends & influence people 2.0 !

Except for the Chileans , practically everyone associated with Naval Group has had extremely nice things to say about them beginning with the Norwegians - "good negotiators , bad partners ," the Australians who voted with their feet , followed by the Indians who by the looks of it want nothing to do with NG anymore & now the Malaysians .I'd leave the Brazilians out as it's still work in progress .


Frankly I turned into a huge NG fan last year when the budgeted program costs of the Aussie submarine project ballooned from 50 billion AD to 90 billion AD with not a rivet being struck & estimated project costs were expected to be 120-150 billion AD by the end of the project somewhere in the late 2040s .

But you know what they say - if it's too good to be true , it's too good to be true .

I mean it was too much to expect the Anglo US alliance to sit by idly while you guys ripped the Aussies in broad daylight . They did what they do best . Get rid of le Francais as they've been doing ever since you lost Waterloo & rip the dim witted Aussies off themselves.

At the end of the day the Aussies are Anglo US bunnies. Pls explain the situation to le Francais here . @BMD , @Optimist





@Bon Plan ; @Picdelamirand-oil ; @A Person
The Finance Department also told the parliamentary inquiry last week the estimated cost of Australia's nine new naval frigates was $9.3 billion higher than had been publicly disclosed by the government in 2018. Defence officials said at the time the frigates would cost $35 billion, but the cost has now been upgraded to $45.6 billion.

not a NG leaded program.....

 
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counterexamples: neither egypt nor the uae nor singapore are complaining about NG.
I think the examples cited are those pertaining to Submarine building at local shipyards.

That's why the Chileans didn't complain too.

officially, australia emphasised its changing techno-operational requirements and its willingness to switch from conventional to nuclear propulsion for submarines because of the evolving chinese threat. not for “costs&delays” reasons.
Yes & they could've approached le francais for the N subs too. Why didn't they?
if australia goes ssn i think this will initiate an overall movement. it seems already planned that the next generation of korean submarines will be nuclear-powered. in this case, conventionally powered submarines will be less attractive.
and in this case french low-enriched uranium technology (which does not contravene the non-proliferation treaty) should be favoured.

at the moment, the australian soap opera reminds me of canada:
in the 1980s, france hoped to sell its nuclear attack submarines to canada. negotiations seemed to be on track. until the americans stepped in with a counter-proposal to lend or provide american nuclear submarines. the canadians then dropped the french contract. except that they never got a return from the americans, and they ended up having to buy used british conventional submarines that were not in good condition, which caused lots of problems for the canadian navy.
is history repeating?
Canada is a different case yet not that different. They're as dim witted as the Aussies, perhaps less so as @Optimist would never confess to & whose reticence in the matter can be taken as confirmation of the same.

On a different note, Canada is part of the wider N America region & hence under the US arc of operations & influence . I very much doubt they'd take kindly to even the British interfering there or coming up with a similar offer leave aside le francais.

For perspective, consider the Avro Canada Arrow fighter aircraft project & check what happened there . Ditto for the Israelis & their Lavi project .

However, I don't think this applies to the SSN project with the Aussies. You yourself have answered your question in #20 in this very thread.Read it alongside #16 .
 
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The Finance Department also told the parliamentary inquiry last week the estimated cost of Australia's nine new naval frigates was $9.3 billion higher than had been publicly disclosed by the government in 2018. Defence officials said at the time the frigates would cost $35 billion, but the cost has now been upgraded to $45.6 billion.

not a NG leaded program.....

Going from $35 billion to $46 billion is the same as going from $50 billion to $90 billion & ending up around $120-140 billion or more by the end of the project ?

Pls read up on #16 & 20 in this very thread.
 
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See what happens when you google. it wasn't because of going from 8 to 12, as you said earlier.
I don't think you need to rub it in. Le francais is smarting from being bested once again by the perfidious Anglos. To add to it, they must have lost heavily on stocks of NG they may have purchased & expected to make a windfall out of. You're not making it any easier for them.
 
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& they could've approached le francais for the N subs too. Why didn't they?
Because since 2016, the US had (at least) a high ranking “inside man” into AUS gvt:

(theguardian, sept.2021)

Former US navy secretary now Scott Morrison’s Aukus middleman on submarine plan​

This article is more than 10 months old
Prof Donald Winter, who advised the Australian prime minister on scrapping the French deal, takes on new $US6,000 a day role


A former US navy secretary who advised the Australian government on the scrapping of the French submarine deal will now act as a go-between with American defence officials in a $US6,000 a day role.

Prof Donald Winter revealed details of his expanded role in a filing to the US Department of Justice, as Australia embarks on an 18-month study into how to acquire nuclear-powered submarineswith the help of the US and the UK.

According to the filing – which was required under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, the US equivalent to Australia’s foreign influence register – Winter received the request during Scott Morrison’s visit to Washington DC last week.

Australia sparked a rift with Paris, and caused unease in some south-east Asian nations, when it announced in mid-September that it was dumping its $A90bn deal with France’s Naval Group in favour of a defence partnership with the UK and the UK to be known as Aukus.
Winter has been serving as the prime minister’s special adviser on naval shipbuilding since January, with officials saying his contract was worth up to $A1.5m over three years.

In the new filing (pdf), Winter said the Australian government had asked him to engage with US personnel “to further Aukus implementation”. That would involve coordinating with the US Department of Defense leadership, “principally Navy”.
Winter – who served as US navy secretary from 2006 to 2009 under the George W Bush and Barack Obama administrations – has long been involved in oversight of Australia’s future submarine program, including scrutinising the original bidding process.

When approached for comment, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (PM&C) confirmed that Winter was “supporting the work of the US, UK and Australia to explore the optimum pathway for Australia to acquire conventionally armed nuclear-powered submarines”.

“As a trusted adviser to the prime minister and a former United States Secretary of the Navy, Prof Winter is uniquely placed to engage within the US system on behalf of Australia in the implementation of the Aukus partnership,” a spokesperson for PM&C said.
At the beginning of this year, Morrison made a series of personnel changes that would allow him to make a U-turn on the submarine project, amid growing concerns about China’s assertiveness and whether the project would provide the capability the Australian government believed it needed.
That included appointing Winter as the prime minister’s special adviser on naval shipbuilding. Winter is paid through his firm Burdeshaw Associates.
Winter’s filing to the US Department of Justice – which revealed his rate of pay in the role was $US6,000 a day plus expenses – was first noticed by a Twitter user on Monday. Guardian Australia subsequently confirmed the information, which was published on the US Department of Justice website, and obtained comment from the Australian government.
On Tuesday the PM&C spokesperson told Guardian Australia Winter’s fees were “commensurate with commercial rates for managing directors” and were “considered appropriate for the highly specialised skills and experience required”.

This month’s cancellation of Australia’s $90bn deal with France’s Naval Group for 12 conventional submarines prompted the French government to recall its ambassador to Australia, amid claims it had been kept in the dark and “stabbed in the back”.
In October 2016 the Turnbull government appointed Winter as chair of Australia’s Naval Shipbuilding Advisory Board, which would eventually raise concerns about the how the submarine project was progressing.

In 2018, the Winter-chaired board suggested that the Australian government consider whether proceeding with the French submarine program was in the national interest.

The board “commented that Defence should assess whether program risks outweighed the benefits of proceeding even if negotiations succeeded on the Strategic Partnering Agreement”, according to deliberations revealed in a later report by the auditor general.
At Senate estimates in March this year, PM&C officials revealed the Attack-class submarines and the Hunter-class frigates were “a particular focus” of Winter’s new advisory role.

PM&C officials said Winter had “extensive experience” and was “able to provide some really invaluable advice”. They said a lot of Winter’s work had been done remotely from the Australian embassy in Washington DC, because of Covid-related travel limitations.

In June, the Defence Department left the door open to changing course on the submarine program, saying in a public hearing that “prudent contingency planning” was under way.

The resulting Aukus arrangement – announced on 16 September with much fanfare – commits Australia, the UK and the US to deepen cooperation on cyber capabilities, artificial intelligence, quantum technologies and undersea capabilities.

Its first project is an 18-month study to identify “the optimal pathway to deliver at least eight nuclear-powered submarines for Australia”.

The Australian government has attempted to allay concerns from countries including Indonesia and Malaysia, by saying it remains committed to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and that it will work cooperatively to support “regional stability and security”.
Naval Group is now drawing up a bill for the cancelled contract, but has yet to publicly disclose how much it is seeking from the Australian government.

Morrison’s requests to speak directly with the French president, Emmanuel Macron, have so far been rebuffed, and it is unclear when the French ambassador will return to Canberra.

This story was amended on 29 September, 2021, to include information that the filing on the US department’s website was first highlighted on social media.

 
Because since 2016, the US had (at least) a high ranking “inside man” into AUS gvt:

(theguardian, sept.2021)

Former US navy secretary now Scott Morrison’s Aukus middleman on submarine plan​

This article is more than 10 months old
Prof Donald Winter, who advised the Australian prime minister on scrapping the French deal, takes on new $US6,000 a day role


A former US navy secretary who advised the Australian government on the scrapping of the French submarine deal will now act as a go-between with American defence officials in a $US6,000 a day role.

Prof Donald Winter revealed details of his expanded role in a filing to the US Department of Justice, as Australia embarks on an 18-month study into how to acquire nuclear-powered submarineswith the help of the US and the UK.

According to the filing – which was required under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, the US equivalent to Australia’s foreign influence register – Winter received the request during Scott Morrison’s visit to Washington DC last week.

Australia sparked a rift with Paris, and caused unease in some south-east Asian nations, when it announced in mid-September that it was dumping its $A90bn deal with France’s Naval Group in favour of a defence partnership with the UK and the UK to be known as Aukus.
Winter has been serving as the prime minister’s special adviser on naval shipbuilding since January, with officials saying his contract was worth up to $A1.5m over three years.

In the new filing (pdf), Winter said the Australian government had asked him to engage with US personnel “to further Aukus implementation”. That would involve coordinating with the US Department of Defense leadership, “principally Navy”.
Winter – who served as US navy secretary from 2006 to 2009 under the George W Bush and Barack Obama administrations – has long been involved in oversight of Australia’s future submarine program, including scrutinising the original bidding process.

When approached for comment, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet (PM&C) confirmed that Winter was “supporting the work of the US, UK and Australia to explore the optimum pathway for Australia to acquire conventionally armed nuclear-powered submarines”.

“As a trusted adviser to the prime minister and a former United States Secretary of the Navy, Prof Winter is uniquely placed to engage within the US system on behalf of Australia in the implementation of the Aukus partnership,” a spokesperson for PM&C said.
At the beginning of this year, Morrison made a series of personnel changes that would allow him to make a U-turn on the submarine project, amid growing concerns about China’s assertiveness and whether the project would provide the capability the Australian government believed it needed.
That included appointing Winter as the prime minister’s special adviser on naval shipbuilding. Winter is paid through his firm Burdeshaw Associates.
Winter’s filing to the US Department of Justice – which revealed his rate of pay in the role was $US6,000 a day plus expenses – was first noticed by a Twitter user on Monday. Guardian Australia subsequently confirmed the information, which was published on the US Department of Justice website, and obtained comment from the Australian government.
On Tuesday the PM&C spokesperson told Guardian Australia Winter’s fees were “commensurate with commercial rates for managing directors” and were “considered appropriate for the highly specialised skills and experience required”.

This month’s cancellation of Australia’s $90bn deal with France’s Naval Group for 12 conventional submarines prompted the French government to recall its ambassador to Australia, amid claims it had been kept in the dark and “stabbed in the back”.
In October 2016 the Turnbull government appointed Winter as chair of Australia’s Naval Shipbuilding Advisory Board, which would eventually raise concerns about the how the submarine project was progressing.

In 2018, the Winter-chaired board suggested that the Australian government consider whether proceeding with the French submarine program was in the national interest.

The board “commented that Defence should assess whether program risks outweighed the benefits of proceeding even if negotiations succeeded on the Strategic Partnering Agreement”, according to deliberations revealed in a later report by the auditor general.
At Senate estimates in March this year, PM&C officials revealed the Attack-class submarines and the Hunter-class frigates were “a particular focus” of Winter’s new advisory role.

PM&C officials said Winter had “extensive experience” and was “able to provide some really invaluable advice”. They said a lot of Winter’s work had been done remotely from the Australian embassy in Washington DC, because of Covid-related travel limitations.

In June, the Defence Department left the door open to changing course on the submarine program, saying in a public hearing that “prudent contingency planning” was under way.

The resulting Aukus arrangement – announced on 16 September with much fanfare – commits Australia, the UK and the US to deepen cooperation on cyber capabilities, artificial intelligence, quantum technologies and undersea capabilities.

Its first project is an 18-month study to identify “the optimal pathway to deliver at least eight nuclear-powered submarines for Australia”.

The Australian government has attempted to allay concerns from countries including Indonesia and Malaysia, by saying it remains committed to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and that it will work cooperatively to support “regional stability and security”.
Naval Group is now drawing up a bill for the cancelled contract, but has yet to publicly disclose how much it is seeking from the Australian government.

Morrison’s requests to speak directly with the French president, Emmanuel Macron, have so far been rebuffed, and it is unclear when the French ambassador will return to Canberra.

This story was amended on 29 September, 2021, to include information that the filing on the US department’s website was first highlighted on social media.

Which is why I wrote, ever since Waterloo, the Anglos & their cousins have been screwing le francais over relentlessly.

It's all the more galling considering the immense help & assistance le francais rendered le fils de putes americains during the American War of Independence & in 1812 too.

But then I've also remarked that you can't really rip off the Aussies, as dumb & tempting as it might be, with the Anglos around. It's like the latter messing around in the Sahel. Would le francais tolerate it? Non Monsieur, Certainement pas.
 
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Royal Australian Navy : News, Updates & Discussions.

Perhaps @Amarante ought to look at this bit of news from #3 onwards on the thread I've linked. This foretold the coming storm. Gives you a good idea on how stormy the discussion was then.

Were these news reports manipulated? Certainly can be the case. But both NG & the French government were fast asleep. In all fairness, it could be said in their defense, they never expected the Anglos to be act so treacherously. But that's why the Anglos are called perfidious.
 
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There seems to be a misunderstanding about the Australian submarine.
Australia told France 7 months earlier there were problems and possible cancellation
What we know today, Thursday February 25 - InDaily
"Prime Minister Scott Morrison has ordered a study of high level to see how to terminate the contract of 90 billion dollars"

The contract had several exit ramps written into it. Australia exercised its right to legally exit the contract