Small Arms & Tactical Equipment

The possible issues might come up with ak203 Indian version

1: hence free floating hand guard missing it may affect affect attachment like flashlights laser designator ( even u can attach on recoil its stability may get affected)

2: the selector mod revoked in to older type which reduce the effectiveness of same hand fire selection and cause additional 2 or 3 sec on reloads

3: ak103 type but stock will be an isuue for Indian soldies becoz of India's population diversity and different height weight category, the gun handling will be an issue

4: obsolescence in near future the gun is just a beauty mod on ak103 it won't bring any tatical superiority to table after 10 or 15 years we may need upgrading these guns to fit modern optics or plugins

In short choosing ak203 was most reckless thing from Indian military establishment ( these are my personal views only)
 
The possible issues might come up with ak203 Indian version

1: hence free floating hand guard missing it may affect affect attachment like flashlights laser designator ( even u can attach on recoil its stability may get affected)

2: the selector mod revoked in to older type which reduce the effectiveness of same hand fire selection and cause additional 2 or 3 sec on reloads

3: ak103 type but stock will be an isuue for Indian soldies becoz of India's population diversity and different height weight category, the gun handling will be an issue

4: obsolescence in near future the gun is just a beauty mod on ak103 it won't bring any tatical superiority to table after 10 or 15 years we may need upgrading these guns to fit modern optics or plugins

In short choosing ak203 was most reckless thing from Indian military establishment ( these are my personal views only)
I don't think IA will have any problem using the new ak203 . We have been using every conceivable ak rip-off excluding the Polish and Finnish ones. Ak 203 won't be a big problem .


The pic rail on the ak203 is enough and will continue to be the standard for mounting optics. Atleast now IA should focus on getting good optics instead of fugly ofb optics. Ak is not an outdated design similar to how the M16 is not. It does need improvement every iteration and ak203 is not that bad a design for an Army which has literally just entered the 2000's in terms of infantry gear and maybe tactics.


And if IA really wanted to improve tactically they would have selected a new cartridge like 6.5 instead of the absolute shitty 5.56 ammunition the ofb produces. We should have gone for the ak 15 but I guess the massive funds crunch is the reason we have failed to get the desired ak. If the claims of indo-us DTTI are true chances are that we may end up with the new round .

Right now with current state of our infantry anything is better than the insas.
 
The possible issues might come up with ak203 Indian version

1: hence free floating hand guard missing it may affect affect attachment like flashlights laser designator ( even u can attach on recoil its stability may get affected)

I don't think even the old AK-203 handguard allowed a free-floating barrel. I thought that was something only the AK-12/AK-15 handguards (which are different from 200 series) allowed. @Maximus
 
I don't think even the old AK-203 handguard allowed a free-floating barrel. I thought that was something only the AK-12/AK-15 handguards (which are different from 200 series) allowed. @Maximus

Yes only AK 12,AK 15 Hand guard is free float,unlike the AK 103/203 Hand guard.
ak 12 handguard.jpg







The AK 203 which we are buying is quite similar to the AK 103 which was offered to Pakistan.The only difference being that the muzzle brake has been replaced by the flash hider,and the design of the rear sight block and the way top is cover is hinged ,and secured has been changed.

pak ak 103 1.jpeg

AK 103 which was offered to Pakistan.





I have pieced together the events that led to AK 103/203.All of this is my assumption based on the info available in public.

2015

As per this article Kalashnikov wanted to start manufacturing AK 103 in India ,in partnership with Adani in 2015,but it was turned down by the MOD.

The defence ministry recently nixed a proposal for a joint venture between Russia's Kalashnikov Concern-which makes the iconic assault rifle-and the Adani group.


Russia's Kalashnikov Concern, meanwhile, has unsuccessfully tried to set up a gun assembly plant in Gujarat with the private sector since 2014. It wanted the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to provide components for these rifles, to be assembled by a private partner.

The proposal was forwarded to the OFB in 2015. It was shot down by the MoD's Directorate of Defence Production (DoDP) on procedural grounds. The DoDP felt the proposal not only bypassed Rosoboronexport, Russia's state-owned arms trading firm that India deals with, but also fair competition norms.

The search for an assault rifle


2015-2016

Meanwhile OFB has realized that chances of any of its assault rifle being selected by the Indian army are close to non existent. They may have to soon shut their shops,the only way out of this seem to be a partnership with Kalashnikov. As OFB was well versed in manufacturing of stampede receiver due to insas,AK 103 seem an easy way out.

OFB officials say the stamped-metal receiver body can easily be manufactured at their factory with no additional investments in plant and machinery.

The search for an assault rifle


2017

The OFB Lobby in conjunction with MOD convinced Kalashnikov to tie up with OFB,with an assurance of tender meant for replacement of Insas.

Vladimir onokoy was sent to rifle factory Ishapore ,to workout a deal with OFB.He has claimed to trial the AK 103 at Rifle factory Ishapore in 2017.The point to note is that he never claims it to be army trials.Nor the army would conduct its rifle trials at OFB ishapore,these are generally done at infantry school MHOW,when a foreign manufacturer is involved.

Trials of 100 series were conducted by me in Ishapor in 2017. 200 series is internally the same.


2017

An initial agreement was reached between Kalashnikov and OFB ,for the production of AK 103.As a result OFB displayed the AK 103 in its stall at defexpo2017 :
DEFEXPO17.jpg

DEFEXPO171.jpg




April 2018

The delegation of MOD visited Kalashnikov plant in Russia,to lay the groundwork of production of AK 103 at OFB.At this point the AK 103 had morphed into AK 203,then there was AK 15.The Kalashnikov concern were able to up sell the AK 203 to the Mod.As a result the rifle to be produced by the OFB was finalized as AK 203.The Final deal was to be signed when Modi Visit Russia.

The delegation of the Ministry of Defense of India led by director general of the department of acquisitions Apurwa Chandra visited the construction site of the "Kalashnikov" Concern in Izhevsk.

Mod at kalashiknov.jpg


Delegation of Indian Ministry of Defense visits "Kalashnikov" Concern



August 2018

Indian army issued a global RFI for 6,50,000 ,7.62x39mm rifles.Which was a complete hogwash,as the rifle and the agency to produce it was already finalized(ak 103/OFB).

n a major step to modernise the infantry, the Army on Friday floated a global tender or Request for Information(RFI) worth over Rs 12,000 crore for 6,50,000 assault rifles for soldiers. These rifles will replace the current INSAS rifle.
Giving specifications of the rifle as mentioned in the tender, officials said here the 7.62X39mm caliber gun should have an effective range of 300 metres, should be of modular design, light and have the capability for integrated open sight.

Army floats global tender for 6.5 lakh assault rifles




March 2019

PM Modi announce the manufacturing of AK 203 at OFB amethi.

Modi inaugurated a manufacturing unit for AK-203 rifles, an India-Russia joint venture.

Modi inaugurates AK-203 rifle manufacturing unit in Amethi


So basically ,the deal to replace insas rifles was already fixed in favor of OFB.The tender,fair trial,competition was all an eyewash.OFB and MOD were involved in it ,right from 2015.What role (if at all)army leadership played in it ,is not known.
 
So basically ,the deal to replace insas rifles was already fixed in favor of OFB.The tender,fair trial,competition was all an eyewash.OFB and MOD were involved in it ,right from 2015.What role (if at all)army leadership played in it ,is not known
Without army's top brass getting their cut, it's unlikely that OFB & MoD would alone calling in such shots
 
The folks in US will be trialing these three rifles:

General Dynamics AR
gd ar.jpg



Textron AR
textron ar.jpg



SIG sauer MCX spear
sig mcx spear.jpg





Not only this ,the cartridge which it will fire 6.8x51mm ,will have more range,muzzle velocity,energy,penetration,speed,flatter trajectory and lighter weight than any of its contemporary cartridge.

While people in India will be tom tomming this rifle as some achievement :
AK-203.jpg
 
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The folks in US will be trialing these three rifles:

General Dynamics AR
View attachment 14350


Textron AR
View attachment 14351


SIG sauer MCX spear
View attachment 14352




Not only this ,the cartridge which it will fire 6.8x51mm ,will have more range,muzzle velocity,energy,penetration,speed,flatter trajectory and lighter weight than any of its contemporary cartridge.

While people in India will be tom tomming this rifle as some achievement :
View attachment 14353
What MOD lacks is future foresight, if they made a better choice today, they could have saved alot of money in the future...if the deal goes through, expect the army to spend money later on for upgrades or even complete replacement. I still think its not that bad for the average joe who isnt going to see combat anytime soon, but our special ops guys and the soldiers fighting on the front deserve better.
The folks in US will be trialing these three rifles:

General Dynamics AR
View attachment 14350


Textron AR
View attachment 14351


SIG sauer MCX spear
View attachment 14352




Not only this ,the cartridge which it will fire 6.8x51mm ,will have more range,muzzle velocity,energy,penetration,speed,flatter trajectory and lighter weight than any of its contemporary cartridge.

While people in India will be tom tomming this rifle as some achievement :
View attachment 14353
I think the sig is going to win, the us army is not going to buy a bullpup and the textron is very complicated internally.
 
I don't think even the old AK-203 handguard allowed a free-floating barrel. I thought that was something only the AK-12/AK-15 handguards (which are different from 200 series) allowed. @Maximus
You cannot free float a long-stroke piston gun. Period. Recall free body diagrams from high school? For free-floating a barrel, you basically have no supports to the barrel after the barrel nut. Pure cantilever body.
AK's cannot be free floated as they literally have a Gasport connected to the other end, creating inherent two-point rigid support.
AR15's and it's derivatives also use a gas block for DI, but the claim is; gas tube can flex so the Y-Z plane, which I personally think is BS but thats why there is a huge Freefloat market for the AR15DI guns.

Bottom line, unless you have a reciprocation mechanism driven by something other than exhaust gas derrived from the barrel, there is slim chance that you can "free float" the barrel.

Also, free-floating is not a great feature, to begin with, a properly bedded gun can outshoot a free-floated gun. The problem is proper bedding is expensive while free-floating is a cheap measure.
 
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[DEFEXPO 2020] New Series of Sniper and Assault Rifles from SSS Defense

Posted 6 hours ago
By Vladimir Onokoy
1582130430920.png


After you’ve been to dozens of defense expos all around the globe, you don’t really expect to see anything new and exciting. The time when “big reveals” of new products were done at exhibitions are almost gone, there is the internet for that. And DEFEXPO was no exception until I walked into a booth of SSS Defense.

If you never heard about this company, don’t worry, I never heard about it either. But their product line was extremely impressive, let’s take a closer look at some of the guns they showcased.

20200207_122303.jpg

P-72 rifles.

Fist of all, there was a family of P-72 assault rifles: P-72 Carbine with a 10-inch barrel, P-72 DMR with 18 or 20-inch barrels and P-72 Rapid Engagement Combat Rifle (RECR, pronounced “wrecker”) with a 16-inch barrel.

According to the SSS Defense catalog, P-72 Carbine is “available in 7.62×39 and 5.56×45” and RECR “is available in the powerful 7.62×39 and 7.62×51 NATO chambering. The 16-inch, super-light-contour barrel helps to keep weight to a minimum. The barrel is free-floated in the one-piece monolithic upper, and the rifle utilizes a short-stroke gas piston system with a rotating bolt”.

But that is not all. At DEFEXPO 2020 SSS Defense also presented two bolt action sniper rifles: “Viper” chambered for 7.62×51

69653DB8-2E7D-48DC-8740-34E8560119D0.jpeg

“Viper” sniper rifle.

and “Saber” chambered for .338 Lapua Magnum.

DD201ED7-4B5E-4385-AF5D-C0BA66E31889.jpeg

“Saber” sniper rifle.

Unfortunately, all of the weapons were bolted to the wall, so there was no way to see if those are functional weapons or just prototypes or mock-ups. But without any doubt, the design of P-72 looks very promising – with an adjustable stock which looks very similar to ACR, M-LOK slots for Picatinny rails, ambidextrous safety/selector it certainly follows all the latest trends in the small arms design.

90748CDC-0713-4B82-BB07-E3DDFA19B926.jpeg

P-72 rifle.

Talking to a lot of local small arms experts, I confirmed that the SSS Defense display was a complete surprise for everyone. It would be interesting to see what the future holds for “Viper”, “Saber” and P-72. Let’s hope that the troubled history of indigenous Indian small arms development won’t affect the future of those weapons.

[DEFEXPO 2020] New Series of Sniper and Assault Rifles from SSS Defense -
 
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The folks in US will be trialing these three rifles:

General Dynamics AR
View attachment 14350


Textron AR
View attachment 14351


SIG sauer MCX spear
View attachment 14352




Not only this ,the cartridge which it will fire 6.8x51mm ,will have more range,muzzle velocity,energy,penetration,speed,flatter trajectory and lighter weight than any of its contemporary cartridge.

While people in India will be tom tomming this rifle as some achievement :
View attachment 14353
Damn...SSS Defence's P72 series look on par with the American rifles
 
While we are Discussing Guns like AK Series OR SSS Defence 7.62 × 51 OR OFB Assault Rifles or SIG 7.52 X 51

This is what is happening in US

338 Caliber LMG

And we have just acquired 338 Bolt Action Sniper gun last year

U.S. SOCOM receives new Sig Sauer MG 338 lightweight machine gun systems | January 2020 Global Defense Security army news industry | Defense Security global news industry army 2020 | Archive News year
That is because any bloke here in the garage can build an AK or an AR; Rifleman culture is quite strong here, and Americans take thier guns seriously unlike Indians.
 
[DEFEXPO 2020] New Series of Sniper and Assault Rifles from SSS Defense

Posted 6 hours ago
By Vladimir Onokoy
View attachment 14355

After you’ve been to dozens of defense expos all around the globe, you don’t really expect to see anything new and exciting. The time when “big reveals” of new products were done at exhibitions are almost gone, there is the internet for that. And DEFEXPO was no exception until I walked into a booth of SSS Defense.

If you never heard about this company, don’t worry, I never heard about it either. But their product line was extremely impressive, let’s take a closer look at some of the guns they showcased.

View attachment 14359
P-72 rifles.

Fist of all, there was a family of P-72 assault rifles: P-72 Carbine with a 10-inch barrel, P-72 DMR with 18 or 20-inch barrels and P-72 Rapid Engagement Combat Rifle (RECR, pronounced “wrecker”) with a 16-inch barrel.

According to the SSS Defense catalog, P-72 Carbine is “available in 7.62×39 and 5.56×45” and RECR “is available in the powerful 7.62×39 and 7.62×51 NATO chambering. The 16-inch, super-light-contour barrel helps to keep weight to a minimum. The barrel is free-floated in the one-piece monolithic upper, and the rifle utilizes a short-stroke gas piston system with a rotating bolt”.

But that is not all. At DEFEXPO 2020 SSS Defense also presented two bolt action sniper rifles: “Viper” chambered for 7.62×51

View attachment 14358
“Viper” sniper rifle.

and “Saber” chambered for .338 Lapua Magnum.

View attachment 14357
“Saber” sniper rifle.

Unfortunately, all of the weapons were bolted to the wall, so there was no way to see if those are functional weapons or just prototypes or mock-ups. But without any doubt, the design of P-72 looks very promising – with an adjustable stock which looks very similar to ACR, M-LOK slots for Picatinny rails, ambidextrous safety/selector it certainly follows all the latest trends in the small arms design.

View attachment 14356
P-72 rifle.

Talking to a lot of local small arms experts, I confirmed that the SSS Defense display was a complete surprise for everyone. It would be interesting to see what the future holds for “Viper”, “Saber” and P-72. Let’s hope that the troubled history of indigenous Indian small arms development won’t affect the future of those weapons.

[DEFEXPO 2020] New Series of Sniper and Assault Rifles from SSS Defense -
I sincerely hope the Ak-203 deal flounders and P-72 series of rifles get selected as the INSAS replacement.
It fires all kinds of ammunition (5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.62x51) plus is way more customizable than the AK.
7.62x51 P-72 can be used to supplement Sig 716 in the DMR role.
7.62x39 P-72 can serve as the perfect INSAS replacement.
5.56x45 P-72 can serve as the Tavor replacement for the Special Forces.
The biggest plus point is that it is designed and developed right over here in India.
What more does an Army want.
 
I sincerely hope the Ak-203 deal flounders and P-72 series of rifles get selected as the INSAS replacement.
It fires all kinds of ammunition (5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.62x51) plus is way more customizable than the AK.
7.62x51 P-72 can be used to supplement Sig 716 in the DMR role.
7.62x39 P-72 can serve as the perfect INSAS replacement.
5.56x45 P-72 can serve as the Tavor replacement for the Special Forces.
The biggest plus point is that it is designed and developed right over here in India.
What more does an Army want.
What more?? Umm kickbacks and OFBs running
 
I sincerely hope the Ak-203 deal flounders and P-72 series of rifles get selected as the INSAS replacement.
It fires all kinds of ammunition (5.56x45, 7.62x39, 7.62x51) plus is way more customizable than the AK.
7.62x51 P-72 can be used to supplement Sig 716 in the DMR role.
7.62x39 P-72 can serve as the perfect INSAS replacement.
5.56x45 P-72 can serve as the Tavor replacement for the Special Forces.
The biggest plus point is that it is designed and developed right over here in India.
What more does an Army want.
The sad thing is that the AK deal is probably going to go through...modi has done alot of PR on that rifle deal.