There will not be a direct purchase of Rafale anymore. Rafale may come via mmrca2 route.
Tejas Mk2 (Medium Weight Fighter) - News and discussions
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U think mmrca2 will be dealt that fast?
Ie before mwf gets into production line?
There is a outside chance F18 may do it.
Falcon says Traction for F18 still there, despite CFT problem s.
The past history of HAL-ADA-IAF trio forces me to believe that LCAmk2 will get delayed.
There are a lot of options. GaAs options go from 5V to 50V whereas the newest GaN designs go up from 28V to 65V.
The IAF can't fight the Chinese without MRFA until 2040, even if 500 MWFs are bought and another 200 MKIs are bought with all Russian avionics and engines. Why 2040? It's because AMCA will become available by then to take over the MRFA's duties.
The MRFA is needed to penetrate both the Chinese and Pakistani airspaces, all other jets can't do that job. Even if it's 10000 MWFs and 20000 MKIs, 9-12 squadrons of MRFA are still necessary to act as the tip of the spear in a two-front war. Other jets will simly die trying to do the job of the MRFA.
The IAF needs 8 squadrons in forward air bases, 2 squadrons deep within our airspace and 1 squadron in Rajasthan. That's 11 squadrons. And 1 in either the South or A&N, preferably the latter.
As for the MKI upgrade, as long as the Russians deliver an acceptable AESA radar, the IAF will go for it regardless of the Uttam's success. If the Russians do not deliver an acceptable radar, then Uttam it is. That's how our procurement system works. The Russians will be happy to upgrade our MKIs with a new engine, it means more money for them for a technology that's outdated by their standards. It does not seem like you have realised it but by the time the MKI upgrade comes in, the 117S will be a pretty outdated engine, with little to no series production potential left since Flanker production is slowly coming to an end. The future for the engine is re-engine programs for all the Flankers, they will obviously not miss this opportunity worth billions just because the IAF chose Uttam. You have to consider it from the PoV of individual companies involved. Why will Saturn give a rat's behind to NIIP's failure?
Anyway, you have it the other way round. The worst case for Russia is we choose to continue with the AL-31FP rather than switch to the 117S. Their main pressure tactics will be applied towards a Su-57 purchase instead. "We will give you whatever you want for the MKI, including full ToT on the new engine, if you buy a few squadrons of Su-57" gambit. The idea is to sweeten the deal as much as possible for the MKI upgrade in exchange for a Su-57 order. They know that if they manage to put their shoe in, there is potential for both repeat orders and opening up other markets around the world using India's stamp of approval. Both Typhoon and Rafale benefited a lot from being shortlisted in MMRCA. So they are not going to hold the MKI upgrade program hostage and prove themselves a bad supplier for merely a radar, a contract worth only a few hundred million for 2 or 3 squadrons of jets.
4 squadrons for limited war with China. 6 squadrons at the minimum for a two-front war. 9-12 squadrons for all-out war, including dealing with severe attrition, which is guaranteed to happen.
SH can't fight PLAAF. Upgraded MKIs are a better option. Cheaper to buy and we already have experience on it. SH is nothing more than a smaller, worse version of the MKI. The MKI can fly farther, carry more payload, flies way better and comes with a cheaper bill, all it needs is RCS treatment, which is already planned. The F-15EX is ridiculously expensive, at least 50% more than the SH in unit costs, and suffers the same problem as the SH vis-a-vis the MKI.
There seems to be some efforts towards a second order of 36. France seems to be sweetening the deal with an assembly line for the airframe and engine, including the production of some parts for both.
When you say tip of the arrow shall we assume its all about avionics and what and all it can dodge? If yes, then are you saying that MWF will never be able to reach that capability till 2030-32? Assuming we will have all the 6-8 squadrons from MMRA 2.0 by 2032.
No. The entire package. Although avionics does play a big part. Do note that when I say MRFA I am really talking about the Rafale. All the other jets in the MRFA, save for Gripen E, are not suitable for this. Gripen E has other problems the MWF also faces.
There are two issues. One is the obvious immaturity of a new fighter jet, and the second is the lack of a second engine. You need a twin engine fighter jet to be able to penetrate enemy airspace. Although a single engine is fine, but that's only in case everything goes in favour of the guy sitting in the cockpit. Only twin-engine jets can deliver all the survivability and capability requirements to act as the tip of the spear. This is especially so against China where targets are deep inside the country.
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That part is true for pretty much everything when it comes to capability and performance, not just for SEAD/DEAD or DPS. For example, you have twice the oboard electrical power for avionics so you can power everything you need to at optimum levels.
When it comes to maturity, the Rafale is already tried and tested while MWF has to be put through the meat grinder before it can deliver. The IAF needs something they can use to dominate the airspace from the moment they get their hands on it, the MWF won't meet that demand until many years after FOC. So yeah, it will be able to meet expectations by 2032, but it's not going to perform the Rafale's role. It's fine for escorting the Rafale into enemy territory though. Any aircraft is good when it's only carrying AAMs.
Its like mother praising /defending her child no matter how bad or good he is. LCA Tejas is our creation, so naturally common people wants to sees Tejas superior to anything on market or a solution for each every problem we face, and irony is that even the politicians who is taking decision also having the same feeling.
Lets hope, GOI will not cancell mmrca2 tendering process altogether.
If there was an opportunity for China to force a war (however localized it might be), it was last year. With the formation and continuation of the Quad will deter China from attacking India again. I don't see how and why China will start another front later this summer or coming summers. China has by now should have understood Indian Army's strength to sustain and its Mountain warfare along with PLA's shortcomings. That said, it will take few years for the PLA to fine tune its strategy or PLA's Mountain warfare capability. India will always maintain the minimum deterrence to dissuade China from planning another attack on India. That said, IAF's share in this year's Capital acquisition budget has increased and will continue to increase along with the upcoming 5 years defense budgets. I do expect IAF to convince the government to either buy 114 Rafale's or at least 2-4 additional squadrons of Rafale. With the intention to reduce defense imports by $2 Billions this year and to increase it in the coming years, there will be enough $$ to place the order for additional Rafales. But it might take couple of more years before this order is placed. I don't see the IAF preferring another fighter for the MRCA deal.
Yes I spoke for the very large antennas:
I had encouraged Thales to offer an RBE2 with an antenna suitable for the SU-30 MKI for your aircraft upgrade. They did it and it was very well received by the Indians. But they realized that there was room to put an antenna of almost 4000 T/R but that the electrical generation could only support 2500 T/R.
If you change the engines you will probably have more electric generation.
I was under the impression that the mk2 was the last option for the IAF. How else will the IAF get to the required fleet strength? Is imports/building F-16Vs locally still on the table?
Stating the obvious. Naturally, the aircraft has to start flying first before the IAF makes a committment.
The project as of now has IAF backing. Which is good for now. What needs to be done is Government allocating more resources to build a system where HAL/ADA are not dependent upon foreign parters to complete the testing/certification of the system. This will ensure faster delivery of the project.
I think we are dependent on French and Russians for wind tunnel testing for jets even today.
And maybe allocate extra funds to get extra hands. HAL/ADA has many projects in their hands with simultaneous development/delivery expected dates.
16 IOC + 4 FOC. 2 more flew back in March and are yet to be delivered. Could happen very soon.
We were supposed to have 12 FOCs by now, but COVID delayed that.
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