Lok Sabha passes Citizenship Bill amidst Opposition outcry

[vstol Jockey]

Those who are making a case for Tamils of Srilanka must know following facts.

• The problem between SL tamils and Sinhalese started due to Tamil ealam-demand for a separate nation.
• This movement was started by christian Tamils who later formed LTTE.
• The PLOTE leadership was Tamil Hindus and they were eliminated by christian dominated LTTE.
• Those who take up armed struggle against a nation can't ask for asylum for religious persecution.

so most tamils from SL do not fall in this category and it was for this reason that after 1987, no more such concessions were granted to them. Is it not a fact that RG was killed by these very Tamils dominated by Christian tangos.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Vanara (@AgentSaffron) Tweeted:
Lots of people are asking - why srilankan tamils are not included ?

First, Srilanka has complex demographics compared to Pak, Bdesh, Afg.

Sinhalese Buddhists - 70%
Sinhalese Christians - 5%

Srilankan tamils - 10%
Indian Tamils - 5%
Muslims (mostly Tamil) - 10% (

https://twitter.com/x/status/1204645952973418497

)

Vanara (@AgentSaffron) Tweeted:
So, the minority population, i.e, non Sinhalese Buddhists are over 30% of the population whereas in Pak and Bdesh they are 4% and 10% respectively.

If you look at SL Tamils, roughly half of them are non Hindus, i.e, Christians and Muslims.

And Muslims have insisted on+ (

https://twitter.com/x/status/1204646513370157056

)


Vanara (@AgentSaffron) Tweeted:
+ being classified as separate. Their history and relationship with the majority Sinhalese is significantly different than that of the Srilankan Hindu and Christian Tamils.

Finally India doesn't consider srilanka to be unsafe for it's minorities anymore. And given the + (

https://twitter.com/x/status/1204647105958207493

)


Vanara (@AgentSaffron) Tweeted:
+ the delicate nature of our strategic interests in Srilanka (read China), it doesn't serve our purpose to antagonize the Sinhalese or cause further Exodus of tamils from the Island which is quite high already. (

https://twitter.com/x/status/1204647439791206402

)

For more clarity on the state of affairs in SL on what I touched upon in my previous post.

 

[S. A. T. A]

But we did take in nearly a million Tamils thru these pacts. And it was Pak and BD who violated the pacts, India never did. Most muslims are making statement in LS & RS that they chose to stay back ina secular India. What a bullshit they are talking. India became a secular nation thru 42nd amendment when word secular was added to the preamble of the constitution. India of 1947 was not a secular nation.

Dude we have at the most 80,000 to 100000 tamil refugees who are staying in the Indian since the civil war started in Lanka in the 80's .According to census date in lanka, there are little over 2 million Tamils in the whole of Srilnaka. What misinformation are you peddling.

 

[Manhunt]

According to assamese media half of all the riots against native assamese have been carried out by illegal ethnic Bengali migrants( according to NRC half of them being Hindus who will now be awarded with citizenship for killing the Assamese). Non Indian have right to to our country, be they Muslim or Hindus or SIkhs. They have chosen their land and their fate. If they wish to find asyylum in India we had enough provisoon under the current la to grt the citizenship after a period of natiralization. SO why do Hindus of northen region now get preference over Hindus od the south, even though they have the same status under the matter of religious discrimination.

I see what you did there...you assumed that those who participated in the riots were in direct proportion to their representation in the population.


According to wiki, those actually involved in the riots were mostly illegal Bengali Muslims.

“In Assam, the Assam Movement against illegal immigrants started as early as 1979 and ended in 1985, led by All Assam Students Union. Over six years, 855(later on 860 as submitted by AASU) people sacrificed their lives in the hope of an "Infiltration Free Assam".[66][67] They demanded an end to the influx of immigrants and deportation of those who have already settled.[36] It gradually took a violent turn and ethnic violence began between Assamese and Bengalis, mostly Muslims“

You cannot utopia ize away that.... as it stands now....Muslims are many times more prone to violence than any other group anywhere in the word.

This may change in the future....but for now let us see what is real not what we would prefer to be real.

 

[S. A. T. A]

There's a difference between what can be justified in a court of law by bringing in an amendment without undermining the Constitution and bringing in an omnibus bill to treat every Hindu in our vicinity as an automatic citizen of India, should they be willing to make the journey to India . Hindus in Islamic theocratic countries are still facing persecution in every sense of the word and unless they quit the land or convert they will be persecuted. The Tamils in SL were persecuted and are still at a disadvantage . Arguably, their supposed conversion to Buddhism won't ameliorate their plight.

However, they still account for a good 15% of the total population and seem to be maintaining the same as of now. If you add Tamils Muslims to this category, they could well account for 20-25% of the total population. However, though the Malays ( as the Tamil Muslims are locally known) are known to speak Tamil as their mother tongue, they don't consider themselves Tamils . Rather they see themselves as Muslims. This also caused grave disagreements with the Tigers when they de facto ruled the east & north of SL such that there were massacres of Tamil Muslims by the LTTE leading to the expulsion of Tamil Muslims from these parts.

To come back to the Tamils, there were the plantation Tamils who were brought in by the British to work the tea estates in SL & there were the native Tamils who were already in SL since ancient times. Under an agreement, India took back the plantation Tamils. If we extend the same facility to the other Tamils, the extremist Sinhalese will be tempted to further their persecution of the Tamils there. This isn't what we want to encourage.
Then there's the case of Burma too. A large number of Indians moved there in British times and post independence came to dominate trade there for which they were despised. In the 1950's & 60's state organised pogroms saw them being expelled to India which accepted them & gave them citizenship. There's still a small residue of those Indians in Burma. One can't say if they're being persecuted. I haven't come across any article citing such persecution.

The Tamil refugees in India can always be made citizens through another amendment once the CAB is passed and all the heat & dust around this settles down post a SC verdict on it. I suspect that's the game plan. For the present, this CAB is merely a pre cursor to the NRC to follow with major implications for WB & Assam, essentially.

The same things holds true for Hindus in BD and PAK. Moreover since the cut off date is 2014, the Lankan Tamils can be easily accommodated in the CAB provisions. Why cannot the Lankan Tamils not be prioritized along with Hindus Bangalees and Hindus Pakistanis, after all why would they need to wait when they are already here living in India under abysmal conditions, much like Hindu Bangalis and Hindu Pakistanis.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Dude we have at the most 80,000 to 100000 tamil refugees who are staying in the Indian since the civil war started in Lanka in the 80's .According to census date in lanka, there are little over 2 million Tamils in the whole of Srilnaka. What misinformation are you peddling.

I am not peddling any misinformation. All SL tamils do not want to come back to India. Those who wanted to, have been granted the citizenship on three different occassions. Is it not a fact that SL Muslim Tamils are engaged in terror activities not only against Tamils Hindus of India but also against SL Tamil Hindus. Do you want them to become citizens of India? Where were the supprters of recent bombings in SL caught and who were they? Please do not get blinded by regionalism.

 

[S. A. T. A]

I see what you did there...you assumed that those who participated in the riots were in direct proportion to their representation in the population.


According to wiki, those actually involved in the riots were mostly illegal Bengali Muslims.

“In Assam, the Assam Movement against illegal immigrants started as early as 1979 and ended in 1985, led by All Assam Students Union. Over six years, 855(later on 860 as submitted by AASU) people sacrificed their lives in the hope of an "Infiltration Free Assam".[66][67] They demanded an end to the influx of immigrants and deportation of those who have already settled.[36] It gradually took a violent turn and ethnic violence began between Assamese and Bengalis, mostly Muslims“

You cannot utopia ize away that.... as it stands now....Muslims are many times more prone to violence than any other group anywhere in the word.

This may change in the future....but for now let us see what is real not what we would prefer to be real.

SO you are assuming that all lanka tamils who were living in india carried out acts of violence. At most the killings in TN, in the 80's, was mostly turf war between various Tamil militant outfits already sheltered there. actual indians killed by Lankan milinatns in India, including our former PM, was minscule compared the number of Assamese and other Indian in NE killed during the bengalees vs native riots. Another imprtant factor is the Lankan tamils canme to India with active support of the Indian govt and the Indian people and there was no resentment against them in TN, unlike in the NE.

 

[S. A. T. A]

I am not peddling any misinformation. All SL tamils do not want to come back to India. Those who wanted to, have been granted the citizenship on three different occassions. Is it not a fact that SL Muslim Tamils are engaged in terror activities not only against Tamils Hindus of India but also against SL Tamil Hindus. Do you want them to become citizens of India? Where were the supprters of recent bombings in SL caught and who were they? Please do not get blinded by regionalism.

Bhaisaab the total Tamil refugees in India ever since the civil war started was 1Lakh, so why are you peddling this 1 million( 10 lakh ) number. I thought the CAB specifically motioned Hindus and not Muslims. I'm sure Hindu Tamils did not carryout any recent bombings in Lanka.Moreover according to IB reports Sikh khalistani orgs in Pakistan are busy smuggling arms and drugs into Punjab. Would you be much happier giving Sikh Khalastani terrorists Indian citizenship.

 

[vstol Jockey]

SO you are assuming that all lanka tamils who were living in india carried out acts of violence. At most the killings in TN, in the 80's, was mostly turf war between various Tamil militant outfits already sheltered there. actual indians killed by Lankan milinatns in India, including our former PM, was minscule compared the number of Assamese and other Indian in NE killed during the bengalees vs native riots. Another imprtant factor is the Lankan tamils canme to India with active support of the Indian govt and the Indian people and there was no resentment against them in TN, unlike in the NE.

Who fought against IPKF and killed over 1150 soldiers, who fought against Indian forces deployed as part of Op Pawan within India in TN? Please do not make a fool of yourself. I myself had fought against them in Ramnad. In those IN did not have a specialist force like sagar prahari bal. We had either MARCOS or Normal executive Branch officers leading sailors as Platoon commanders and deployed in coastal areas in place of Army during IPKF ops and Op Pawan. Please ask fisherman of TN, who looted their boats and sailed them to SL.

Moreover according to IB reports Sikh khalistani orgs in Pakistan are busy smuggling arms and drugs into Punjab. Would you be much happier giving Sikh Khalastani terrorists Indian citizenship.

You are correct here. But don't we know who these guys are. We still have the right to deny citizenship to such people and even arrest them on arrival to India and prosecute them for waging war against India.

 

[Manhunt]

SO you are assuming that all lanka tamils who were living in india carried out acts of violenc

Where did I assume that?

I have never assumed that ALL people of any demographic are violent.

I have assumed that the probability of some demographics to be problematic for India are higher than those of others .

Sri Lankan Tamils can still become Indian citizens, just not automatically...that seems the safer route.

 

[_Anonymous_]

The same things holds true for Hindus in BD and PAK. Moreover since the cut off date is 2014, the Lankan Tamils can be easily accommodated in the CAB provisions. Why cannot the Lankan Tamils not be prioritized along with Hindus Bangalees and Hindus Pakistanis, after all why would they need to wait when they are already here living in India under abysmal conditions, much like Hindu Bangalis and Hindu Pakistanis.

I think you've either not understood the game plan here or in spite of all the information provided here, you choose not to. Let me explain. The game plan here is to disenfranchise those Bangladeshi Muslims in WB, the NE & rest of India. To do that, a CAB is essential as that is the only way to ensure the Hindu refugees who're genuinely persecuted in Bangladesh manage to continue here as legalised citizens . In order to do that the GoI simply couldn't come up with a bill only ensuring that the Hindu refugees from Bangladesh would benefit. Thus Hindu refugees from Pakistan & Afghanistan were added. This in turn killed many birds with a single stone. That Hindus & Sikhs were discriminated against in both Pakistan & Afghanistan was nobody's case. To this were added Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians & Christians to make the case more water tight. This would also insulate the government against charges of being anti minorities should this bill be challenged in the SC & in better explaining the stance of the GoI in the international fora . The Muslims were deliberately left out as only the minorities of these theocratic countries were challenged.

The Tamils in SL today are at a disadvantage. However, they aren't persecuted as they used to be . Moreover, once this CAB is thru, assuming it remains unchanged once the case in the SC is over which btw is where the action shifts to next, one can always revisit the bill to seek an accommodation for those Tamil refugees in India with the same cut of date. Anything more than that at this juncture will spell trouble for our relationship with SL. It will open them up to further pressure by the West who are already gunning for the Rajpakse brothers, will push SL further into the arms of China like it did previously with grave implications for our security and will also tempt the extremists within Sinhalese society to renew persecution of the SL Tamils. All this has to be carefully balanced.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Where did I assume that?

Sri Lankan Tamils can still become Indian citizens, just not automatically...that seems the safer route.

You must know that those who are asking for SL Tamils to be included have lost all arguments when pointed out the amount of special treatment SL Tamils have had over anyother region in the history of India. Now they want every SL Tamil to be brought to India. Why should we do it and why should SL tamils lose their ancestral lands in SL? Our endeavor should be to ensure that they live with dignity and freedom in their Land. They are ethnically Tamils but their ancestors settlled down their long long back.

 

[S. A. T. A]

Who fought against IPKF and killed over 1150 soldiers, who fought against Indian forces deployed as part of Op Pawan within India in TN? Please do not make a fool of yourself. I myself had fought against them in Ramnad. In those IN did not have a specialist force like sagar prahari bal. We had either MARCOS or Normal executive Branch officers leading sailors as Platoon commanders and deployed in coastal areas in place of Army during IPKF ops and Op Pawan. Please ask fisherman of TN, who looted their boats and sailed them to SL.


You are correct here. But don't we know who these guys are. We still have the right to deny citizenship to such people and even arrest them on arrival to India and prosecute them for waging war against India.

IPKF was deployed for operation in jaffna and not TN and they did not carryout any ops in TN. IPKF was a disiatater waiting to happen, even acknowledged by the IPKF veterans. Rajiv Gandhi thought himself as a modern Napoleon, but in the end got played by the LTTE Chief Prabhakaran and Lankan President Premadasa( who actively provided arms and munition to the LTTE in order to fight the IPKF. However LTTE at that time , until it assassinated PM Gandhi, was not a banned organization and India govt was officially sill supporting LTTE.

How will you rat out potentially Khalistanis, is it in the DNA or something. These are juvenile excuses, meant to obfuscate the fact that the Hindus of Northern India get preferential treatment over Hindus of south, just admit it and be done with it.

 

[S. A. T. A]

I think you've either not understood the game plan here or in spite of all the information provided here, you choose not to. Let me explain. The game plan here is to disenfranchise those Bangladeshi Muslims in WB, the NE & rest of India. To do that, a CAB is essential as that is the only way to ensure the Hindu refugees who're genuinely persecuted in Bangladesh manage to continue here as legalised citizens . In order to do that the GoI simply couldn't come up with a bill only ensuring that the Hindu refugees from Bangladesh would benefit. Thus Hindu refugees from Pakistan & Afghanistan were added. This in turn killed many birds with a single stone. That Hindus & Sikhs were discriminated against in both Pakistan & Afghanistan was nobody's case. To this were added Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians & Christians to make the case more water tight. This would also insulate the government against charges of being anti minorities should this bill be challenged in the SC & in better explaining the stance of the GoI in the international fora . The Muslims were deliberately left out as only the minorities of these theocratic countries were challenged.

The Tamils in SL today are at a disadvantage. However, they aren't persecuted as they used to be . Moreover, once this CAB is thru, assuming it remains unchanged once the case in the SC is over which btw is where the action shifts to next, one can always revisit the bill to seek an accommodation for those Tamil refugees in India with the same cut of date. Anything more than that at this juncture will spell trouble for our relationship with SL. It will open them up to further pressure by the West who are already gunning for the Rajpakse brothers, will push SL further into the arms of China like it did previously with grave implications for our security and will also tempt the extremists within Sinhalese society to renew persecution of the SL Tamils. All this has to be carefully balanced.

If the objective was to only grant citizen ship to Hindus from BD, the cab could have been restricted to BD only, why include Pak and Afghanistan. Was there any pressing mass influx of Hindus & Sikhs from PAK and Afghanistan that warranted their inclusion. One would have understood that BJP wanted a hedge against NE regional parties( a la the non jat strategy in Haryana). However unfortunately i think you are willfully turning away from the core ideology of the RSS-BJP about Hindi, Aryanism and Hindutva. They have made it clear that they don't care any more about the Assamese Hindus as they do about the non Hindi south Indian Hindus in south.For the BJP the bengalees are culturally closer to the Hindi heartland than the Assamese. This is the underlying factor.

Lankan Tamils are still persecuted, you may heard the rhetoric of Gota during the election rallies, clearly there is no reason to feel Gota will be anymore kinder to the Tamils than his bigoted elder brother war was. My preference is for Indian govt not to encourage Hindus religious minorities to leave their homelands under persecution. rather it should exert all the pressure to ensure the Hindus live in heir traditional homeland with security and dignity. This is what any right thinking Hindu, beyond any political leaning, should hope for.

 

[S. A. T. A]

Where did I assume that?

I have never assumed that ALL people of any demographic are violent.

I have assumed that the probability of some demographics to be problematic for India are higher than those of others .

Sri Lankan Tamils can still become Indian citizens, just not automatically...that seems the safer route.

Yes some demographics, Bengali Hindus and Punjabi Sikhs, have been significantly more harmful to the life limbs of Indian citizen and for this very reason the CAB in its current format is Insult to all Indian who have suffered under the hands of these above mentioned demographics. This isall the more reason why former east Pakistanis and Khalistanis should not be given automatic citizenship as proposed by the CAB.

 

[vstol Jockey]

If the objective was to only grant citizen ship to Hindus from BD, the cab could have been restricted to BD only, why include Pak and Afghanistan. Was there any pressing mass influx of Hindus & Sikhs from PAK and Afghanistan that warranted their inclusion.

Please read what is happening in those two countries with non muslims? Non muslims and especially hindus, were asked to wear a yellow cloth strip always and also put a special mark on their house doors to show that they are Hindus. People have been killed for drinking water from taps which were used by muslims. In Pakistan, a chaiwala has two sets of cups, one for muslims and another for non muslims. You seem to be completely blinded by your love for SL Tamils and your reasoning has taken flight. I am ot so blined. I am aware of the plight of SL Tamils and also the plight of Non muslims in the three countries quoted in CAB.

 

[Manhunt]

Yes some demographics, Bengali Hindus and Punjabi Sikhs, have been significantly more harmful to the life limbs of Indian citizen and for this very reason the CAB in its current format is Insult to all Indian who have suffered under the hands of these above mentioned demographics. This isall the more reason why former east Pakistanis and Khalistanis should not be given automatic citizenship as proposed by the CAB.

You’re obviously not reading my responses. When were Bengladeshi Hindus unsafe for life or limb of Indians?

How is this a North South issue?

This is the problem of Malayalee leftists....you build these elaborate arguments to prove that black is white and white is black and then get killed at a zebra crossing.

 

[vstol Jockey]

You’re obviously not reading my responses. When were Bengladeshi Hindus unsafe for life or limb of Indians?

How is this a North South issue?

This is the problem of Malayalee leftists....you build these elaborate arguments to prove that black is white and white is black and then get killed at a zebra crossing.

The best reply so far.

 

[Manhunt]

Please read what is happening in those two countries with non muslims? Non muslims and especially hindus, were asked to wear a yellow cloth strip always and also put a special mark on their house doors to show that they are Hindus. People have been killed for drinking water from taps which were used by muslims. In Pakistan, a chaiwala has two sets of cups, one for muslims and another for non muslims. You seem to be completely blinded by your love for SL Tamils and your reasoning has taken flight. I am ot so blined. I am aware of the plight of SL Tamils and also the plight of Non muslims in the three countries quoted in CAB.

And this persecution is enshrined in their laws and their constitution. This is not a law and order problem.

 

[S. A. T. A]

Please read what is happening in those two countries with non muslims? Non muslims and especially hindus, were asked to wear a yellow cloth strip always and also put a special mark on their house doors to show that they are Hindus. People have been killed for drinking water from taps which were used by muslims. In Pakistan, a chaiwala has two sets of cups, one for muslims and another for non muslims. You seem to be completely blinded by your love for SL Tamils and your reasoning has taken flight. I am ot so blined. I am aware of the plight of SL Tamils and also the plight of Non muslims in the three countries quoted in CAB.

Why are you worried only about the fate of Hindus in Pak and BD. Are Tamil Hindus of Lanka children of lesser Hindu gods. Did you even bother to watch the channel 4 doc video that i posted. Those of Graphic images of our Hindus sister in Jaffna who are undressed, raped and shot dead, all caught on camera. Hundreds of thousands of Lankan Hindus Tamils live IDP camps(internally displaced persons) in abject condition and don't have permission from Sinhalese govt. many of the Hindu temples and Tamil colleges are under the occupation of the Sinhalese army.

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