Lok Sabha passes Citizenship Bill amidst Opposition outcry

You’re obviously not reading my responses. When were Bengladeshi Hindus unsafe for life or limb of Indians?

How is this a North South issue?

This is the problem of Malayalee leftists....you build these elaborate arguments to prove that black is white and white is black and then get killed at a zebra crossing.😂😂

Ethnic Bengalis, both Muslims and Hindus, rioted in Assam killing scores of native Assamese( who are Indian citizens) and in turn Assamese killed these illegal immigrants. You seem oblivious to lot things that happens outside the Hindi cowbelt....
 
Why are you worried only about the fate of Hindus in Pak and BD. Are Tamil Hindus of Lanka children of lesser Hindu gods. Did you even bother to watch the channel 4 doc video that i posted. Those of Graphic images of our Hindus sister in Jaffna who are undressed, raped and shot dead, all caught on camera. Hundreds of thousands of Lankan Hindus Tamils live IDP camps(internally displaced persons) in abject condition and don't have permission from Sinhalese govt. many of the Hindu temples and Tamil colleges are under the occupation of the Sinhalese army.

Isaipriya 'raped' and killed by Sri Lankan Army - NewsX

Sri Lanka's Killing Fields (Documentary) | Real Stories
Propaganda videos of LTTE.
 
If the objective was to only grant citizen ship to Hindus from BD, the cab could have been restricted to BD only, why include Pak and Afghanistan.
And how should we have treated the millions of Bangladeshi Muslim immigrants across Assam, WB & the rest of India. Acknowledge what's a ground reality with a helpless shrug & move on while the demographics in WB & Assam are being skewed heavily & rapidly towards the Muslims? A situation the Congress & particularly the CPM brought about where things have come to such a pass.
Was there any pressing mass influx of Hindus & Sikhs from PAK and Afghanistan that warranted their inclusion.
There are nearly half a million Hindu & Sikh refugees in J&K who as on date are still Stateless citizens since 1947 . This bill will address their plight too.
One would have understood that BJP wanted a hedge against NE regional parties( a la the non jat strategy in Haryana). However unfortunately i think you are willfully turning away from the core ideology of the RSS-BJP about Hindi, Aryanism and Hindutva. They have made it clear that they don't care any more about the Assamese Hindus as they do about the non Hindi south Indian Hindus in south.For the BJP the bengalees are culturally closer to the Hindi heartland than the Assamese. This is the underlying factor.

The Assamese have their state. They just don't know where to draw the line. While their claims can't be tossed aside their conflation and equation of both Bengali Hindus & Muslims from Bangladesh as aliens is problematic to say the least. The Bangladeshi Muslim in India is a clear & present danger. We certainly don't intend to see them get to 40-50% of the total population of the state that they will get to soon, if we don't do something about it to find us staring at a deja vu situation again a la 1947 & the partition. The motto of the RSS as ascribed to them by their critics is Hindi Hindu Hindustan.To that you can add Hindutva. I wonder where did the Aryan part come into it. Unless you're letting your own personal biases slip in. Freudian slip perhaps. Besides they don't subscribe to the Aryan Invasion / Migration Theory at all and certainly won't have any truck whatsoever with Aryan Dravidian divide advocated by the Soriyar / Periyar gangs down South.
Lankan Tamils are still persecuted, you may heard the rhetoric of Gota during the election rallies, clearly there is no reason to feel Gota will be anymore kinder to the Tamils than his bigoted elder brother war was.
I think this will be addressed in due course as I pointed out in my previous post. It's not in our interest to see a SL devoid of all Tamils in any case. It reduces our leverage over them should they begin to harbor ideas against our stated interests.
My preference is for Indian govt not to encourage Hindus religious minorities to leave their homelands under persecution. rather it should exert all the pressure to ensure the Hindus live in heir traditional homeland with security and dignity. This is what any right thinking Hindu, beyond any political leaning, should hope for.

Your preference is well taken. Unfortunately, the Hindus & Sikhs in Pakistan & Afghanistan are too minuscule to mount resistance. They can either continue to be persecuted or convert or leave. They're in no position to offer resistance. Ditto with Bangladesh. The only ppl to mount a resistance were the Buddhist Chakma tribals aided by India. The Bangladeshi Hindus there haven't shown spine or the will to resist. They've either taken the persecution in their stride like good dhimmis or converted or fled.Unlike the SL Tamils. So while your idealism is appreciated, the ground realities are what needs to be considered and taken into account. I'd rather all the Bangladeshi Hindus eventually settle in India whether in WB or Assam primarily and the rest of India and the Bangladeshi Muslims eventually move back into Bangladesh. The CAB & the NRC which follows is the first step in that direction righting perverse wrongs committed in the name of idealism during the partition. This is 72 years too late but welcome nonetheless.
 
Ethnic Bengalis, both Muslims and Hindus, rioted in Assam killing scores of native Assamese( who are Indian citizens) and in turn Assamese killed these illegal immigrants. You seem oblivious to lot things that happens outside the Hindi cowbelt....
When I checked out this piece of information, according to google ...the rioters were Bangla Muslim . I had copied out the piece in an earlier response, which you did not bother to read.
 
And how should we have treated the millions of Bangladeshi Muslim immigrants across Assam, WB & the rest of India. Acknowledge what's a ground reality with a helpless shrug & move on while the demographics in WB & Assam are being skewed heavily & rapidly towards the Muslims? A situation the Congress & particularly the CPM brought about where things have come to such a pass.

There are nearly half a million Hindu & Sikh refugees in J&K who as on date are still Stateless citizens since 1947 . This bill will address their plight too.


The Assamese have their state. They just don't know where to draw the line. While their claims can't be tossed aside their conflation and equation of both Bengali Hindus & Muslims from Bangladesh as aliens is problematic to say the least. The Bangladeshi Muslim in India is a clear & present danger. We certainly don't intend to see them get to 40-50% of the total population of the state that they will get to soon, if we don't do something about it to find us staring at a deja vu situation again a la 1947 & the partition. The motto of the RSS as ascribed to them by their critics is Hindi Hindu Hindustan.To that you can add Hindutva. I wonder where did the Aryan part come into it. Unless you're letting your own personal biases slip in. Freudian slip perhaps. Besides they don't subscribe to the Aryan Invasion / Migration Theory at all and certainly won't have any truck whatsoever with Aryan Dravidian divide advocated by the Soriyar / Periyar gangs down South.

I think this will be addressed in due course as I pointed out in my previous post. It's not in our interest to see a SL devoid of all Tamils in any case. It reduces our leverage over them should they begin to harbor ideas against our stated interests.


Your preference is well taken. Unfortunately, the Hindus & Sikhs in Pakistan & Afghanistan are too minuscule to mount resistance. They can either continue to be persecuted or convert or leave. They're in no position to offer resistance. Ditto with Bangladesh. The only ppl to mount a resistance were the Buddhist Chakma tribals aided by India. The Bangladeshi Hindus there haven't shown spine or the will to resist. They've either taken the persecution in their stride like good dhimmis or converted or fled.Unlike the SL Tamils. So while your idealism is appreciated, the ground realities are what needs to be considered and taken into account. I'd rather all the Bangladeshi Hindus eventually settle in India whether in WB or Assam primarily and the rest of India and the Bangladeshi Muslims eventually move back into Bangladesh. The CAB & the NRC which follows is the first step in that direction righting perverse wrongs committed in the name of idealism during the partition. This is 72 years too late but welcome nonetheless.


I'm surprised that someone as erudite as you would doubt about RSS juxtaposition of Hindusim with Aryanisms. The following is the quote from former Sarsanghachalak of the RSS - I am a Hindu because I trace my ancestry to my Aryan forefathers and I cherish the philosophy and the culture which they handed down to successive generations.

You see the complete shutdown and protests happening in Assam is an illustration the complete opposing views on who or what constitutes Indian citizens. Assamese don't necessarily consider being Hindus is good enough to be criteria for Indian citizen and for them to open up their lands to such citizens. I'm sure we can debate this but this divide exists in india. the Bigotted north Indian like the one who thinks the videos showing Tamils being raped and shot in lanka are propaganda, are the other ends of this divide. AT the time of Independence we had made a clear criteria on citizenship. So why make amends to it and open up old wounds. This is a dangerous trend and will open up a pandoras box, if it hasn't already atleast in NE.
Its owned by the Father of Manu Sharma of Jessica Lal fame and his father is a congressman.

Who care who is what. Congress and Rajiv Gandhi who killed Tamils was also Hindi wallas. Congress by no definition can be pro LTTE. Channel 4 is a British news channel. Of course why am i trying to convince someone who doesn't accept Tamils as Hindus.
 
When I checked out this piece of information, according to google ...the rioters were Bangla Muslim . I had copied out the piece in an earlier response, which you did not bother to read.
If they didn't consider them to be harmful, why are the Assamese not warming up to Bengali Hindus. Why not settle the Bengalis in UP or Bihar. Clearly Assamese don't share your enthusiasm for Bengali Hindus being peaceful.
 
I'm surprised that someone as erudite as you would doubt about RSS juxtaposition of Hindusim with Aryanisms. The following is the quote from former Sarsanghachalak of the RSS - I am a Hindu because I trace my ancestry to my Aryan forefathers and I cherish the philosophy and the culture which they handed down to successive generations.
I also trace my ancestory to Aryans and so do all Tamils and Malayalees. We are the original Aryans. There is a thread started by @vsdoc here and the recent Rakhigarhi DNA test has completely put to rest the so called AIT. You are my cousin from very distant past who left Saraswati basin to migrate down south. My forefathers and your forefathers were probably first cousins. We stayed put and you migrated to south. We underwent a bit of mixing with foreigners and you remained nearly pure. How does that make me Aryan and you Dravidian? Infact, you too should be proud of your Aryan Ancestory. Arya as a word does not find any mention in any language or liguistic groups other than our ancient texts including Sangam litrature. It appeared for the first time in European languages only in 18th century to be usurped by Germans.
 
I also trace my ancestory to Aryans and so do all Tamils and Malayalees. We are the original Aryans. There is a thread started by @vsdoc here and the recent Rakhigarhi DNA test has completely put to rest the so called AIT. You are my cousin from very distant past who left Saraswati basin to migrate down south. My forefathers and your forefathers were probably first cousins. We stayed put and you migrated to south. We underwent a bit of mixing with foreigners and you remained nearly pure. How does that make me Aryan and you Dravidian? Infact, you too should be proud of your Aryan Ancestory. Arya as a word does not find any mention in any language or liguistic groups other than our ancient texts including Sangam litrature. It appeared for the first time in European languages only in 18th century to be usurped by Germans.

@ Annonymous

This proves my earlier point about the RSS....Thank you.

Dear @ vstol your knowledge of history is less than, should i say, average. However lets not get into a history debate and for you info, we Dravidian speakers are not Aryans and Hinduism not an exclusive Aryan speaking peoples venture.
 
Ethnic Bengalis, both Muslims and Hindus, rioted in Assam killing scores of native Assamese( who are Indian citizens) and in turn Assamese killed these illegal immigrants. You seem oblivious to lot things that happens outside the Hindi cowbelt....
Pls reference your claims. The Nellie massacre was a purely one sided affair where the Assamese slaughtered essentially Bengali Muslims. The official toll was 2-3000 . Unofficially, anywhere between 8-10, 000.

I'm not sure where are you getting these reports of Bengali migrants whether Hindus or Muslims or both having launched armed attacks with lots of casualties on Assamese since 1947.
 
@ Annonymous

This proves my earlier point about the RSS....Thank you.

Dear @ vstol your knowledge of history is less than, should i say, average. However lets not get into a history debate and for you info, we Dravidian speakers are not Aryans and Hinduism not an exclusive Aryan speaking peoples venture.
Let us go to that thread and debate there. I will show you that Tamil is the original language of the people of Saraswati basin in India from which evolved sankrit. And that Hindi evolved from Sanskrit. I will also prove you that this so called concept of Dravidian is as recent as 18th century and that it has no supportive basis in any Indian culture and history. This word was coined by a european and it does not belong to India. Those who call themselves Dravidian are the real slaves as they accept the mentality and division given by these colonial invaders. Hai dum toh debate kar.
 
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I'm surprised that someone as erudite as you would doubt about RSS juxtaposition of Hindusim with Aryanisms. The following is the quote from former Sarsanghachalak of the RSS - I am a Hindu because I trace my ancestry to my Aryan forefathers and I cherish the philosophy and the culture which they handed down to successive generations.

Allow me to elaborate.Theirs is an extremely narrow homogenised view of Hinduism. Call it a Semitic view of Hinduism. You can either agree with them or not.Apart from not considering the Aryan Dravidian divide in ethnic terms ( which incidentally is something the world view is converging on as opposed to a linguistic standpoint ) they are of the view that all the native inhabitants of this land are Aryans. You can read this alongside the quotation you've quoted.


You see the complete shutdown and protests happening in Assam is an illustration the complete opposing views on who or what constitutes Indian citizens. Assamese don't necessarily consider being Hindus is good enough to be criteria for Indian citizen and for them to open up their lands to such citizens. I'm sure we can debate this but this divide exists in india.
I'm not denying it. They'd either have to make their peace with the CAB which reconciles sone of their objections or continue to agitate. There are limits to which all their concerns can be accomodated. Besides the history of the NE clearly shows most of them to be extremely xenophobic & bigoted. You've the example of the Mizos where 2 million of them can't accomodate a few thousand Brus just because of their different ethnicity and religious beliefs. Ditto for the Khasis who between them & the Garos eliminated the Bengali Hindus from Meghalaya in 60's & 70's in a series of targeted riots bringing them down from 12-13% of the total population to the 2-3% they are at today . Then there's the case of the Bodos or the Gorkhas in Darjeeling or even Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura & now Arunachal Pradesh where the population of Christians has shot up to 30 % in the past 2-3 decades and they're having exclusivist demands too

the Bigotted north Indian like the one who thinks the videos showing Tamils being raped and shot in lanka are propaganda, are the other ends of this divide. AT the time of Independence we had made a clear criteria on citizenship. So why make amends to it and open up old wounds. This is a dangerous trend and will open up a pandoras box, if it hasn't already atleast in NE.


Let's face it. Tamil demands & it's political legitimacy went for a toss when LTTE took on the IPKF , went on to become the sole voice of the Tamils & later assassinated Rajiv Gandhi. That's the day their cause & voice however justified was doomed. What happened since was simply a natural progression. Something which has affected their claims to this day. Whether it's autonomy in the North & East of SL or their claims to Indian citizenship after spending 4-5 decades as refugees out here.

These issues should have been solved at the time of Independence. Unfortunately, these were brushed under the carpet and worse, political opportunism, rank corruption & incompetence took over. Result 7 decades after independence we still haven't decided the criteria for citizenship in our land. Incidentally every PM since Nehru including Shastri, IG, RG etc have promised a NRC. MMS also wanted a CAB to regularize the Bengali Hindus in Assam. Everybody knew there's a demographic time bomb ticking in the border districts of both WB & Assam with Bangladesh with all those areas showing abnormal levels of population growth every census. Yet nobody did anything except pay lip service.

Mamta Bannerjee too when she quit the Congress to found the TMC wanted action against illegal Muslim immigrants in WB from Bangladesh . Today they're among her staunch supporters and mostly in charge of all the underworld activities in Calcutta & WB. Any wonder then why she's changed her tune.

As things stand today, it's the CAB followed by the NRC.This may certainly not be the most optimum way to deal with this problem but the passage of time has certainly limited the options this GoI Or any GoI has.It'd open up a lot of old wounds & create fresh tensions in our society. But this is to be expected. If you let pressure build up gradually without letting off the steam, you're heading for an explosion. That's where we stand now. The alternative is much worse. If this means more secessionist movements , let it come.We've dealt with them before.We'd do so again.I certainly wouldn't stand for an Assam or WB with a Muslim population mostly comprising of Bangladeshis to take over and dictate the political future of that region.


Who care who is what. Congress and Rajiv Gandhi who killed Tamils was also Hindi wallas. Congress by no definition can be pro LTTE. Channel 4 is a British news channel. Of course why am i trying to convince someone who doesn't accept Tamils as Hindus.
 
Pls reference your claims. The Nellie massacre was a purely one sided affair where the Assamese slaughtered essentially Bengali Muslims. The official toll was 2-3000 . Unofficially, anywhere between 8-10, 000.

I'm not sure where are you getting these reports of Bengali migrants whether Hindus or Muslims or both having launched armed attacks with lots of casualties on Assamese since 1947.

No doubt the majority who died in Anti bengali riots in the NE, including the Nellie ethnic cleansing were Bengalis, because they happened to be the largest of the illegal immigrants. But lets please not say that the the tribal were out there hunting only the Muslim bengalis and somehow spared the Hindu bengalis due to some spirit of kinship. The fact is the Assamese, our natural citizens, are out on the streets protesting because they face an existential threat from illegal bengali imigrants, both hindus and Muslims. Why are we not looking at this issue for what it is.
 
Let us go to that thread and debate there. I will show you that Tamil is the original language of the people of Saraswati basin in India from which evolved sankrit. And that Hindi evolved from Sanskrit. I will also prove you that this so called concept of Dravidian is as recent as 18th century and that it has no supportive basis in any Indian culture and history. This word was coined by a european and it does not belong to India. Those who call themselves Dravidian are the real slaves as they accept the mentality and division given by these colonial invaders. Hai dum toh debate kar.

I'm happy to be involved in any informed debate that involves academic rigor. Since we are both not specialists in the subjects that constitutes Indian historiography, we need to depend on the works of subject matter specialists. I have an neutral position on this matter, but to be honest and apologize for being, but your arguments that i have witnessed previously on this subject, simply lack that, the academic rigor. many time such simple things as the Indian chronology that you present is mostly fantasy and not due to any scientific methodology. Since you have declared me a slave, meaning Dravidian by default is a slave and by extension an Aryan is our master, what is there left for debate.
 
Since you have declared me a slave, meaning Dravidian by default is a slave and by extension an Aryan is our master, what is there left for debate.
I call those people slaves who believe in AIT and Aryan-Dravid divide. I request you to go thru that bthread in detail. Lot of information was provided there by many members and not alone by me. It will broaden your mental horizons.
 
Allow me to elaborate.Theirs is an extremely narrow homogenised view of Hinduism. Call it a Semitic view of Hinduism. You can either agree with them or not.Apart from not considering the Aryan Dravidian divide in ethnic terms ( which incidentally is something the world view is converging on as opposed to a linguistic standpoint ) they are of the view that all the native inhabitants of this land are Aryans. You can read this alongside the quotation you've quoted.



I'm not denying it. They'd either have to make their peace with the CAB which reconciles sone of their objections or continue to agitate. There are limits to which all their concerns can be accomodated. Besides the history of the NE clearly shows most of them to be extremely xenophobic & bigoted. You've the example of the Mizos where 2 million of them can't accomodate a few thousand Brus just because of their different ethnicity and religious beliefs. Ditto for the Khasis who between them & the Garos eliminated the Bengali Hindus from Meghalaya in 60's & 70's in a series of targeted riots bringing them down from 12-13% of the total population to the 2-3% they are at today . Then there's the case of the Bodos or the Gorkhas in Darjeeling or even Manipur, Nagaland, Tripura & now Arunachal Pradesh where the population of Christians has shot up to 30 % in the past 2-3 decades and they're having exclusivist demands too




Let's face it. Tamil demands & it's political legitimacy went for a toss when LTTE took on the IPKF , went on to become the sole voice of the Tamils & later assassinated Rajiv Gandhi. That's the day their cause & voice however justified was doomed. What happened since was simply a natural progression. Something which has affected their claims to this day. Whether it's autonomy in the North & East of SL or their claims to Indian citizenship after spending 4-5 decades as refugees out here.

These issues should have been solved at the time of Independence. Unfortunately, these were brushed under the carpet and worse, political opportunism, rank corruption & incompetence took over. Result 7 decades after independence we still haven't decided the criteria for citizenship in our land. Incidentally every PM since Nehru including Shastri, IG, RG etc have promised a NRC. MMS also wanted a CAB to regularize the Bengali Hindus in Assam. Everybody knew there's a demographic time bomb ticking in the border districts of both WB & Assam with Bangladesh with all those areas showing abnormal levels of population growth every census. Yet nobody did anything except pay lip service.

Mamta Bannerjee too when she quit the Congress to found the TMC wanted action against illegal Muslim immigrants in WB from Bangladesh . Today they're among her staunch supporters and mostly in charge of all the underworld activities in Calcutta & WB. Any wonder then why she's changed her tune.

As things stand today, it's the CAB followed by the NRC.This may certainly not be the most optimum way to deal with this problem but the passage of time has certainly limited the options this GoI Or any GoI has.It'd open up a lot of old wounds & create fresh tensions in our society. But this is to be expected. If you let pressure build up gradually without letting off the steam, you're heading for an explosion. That's where we stand now. The alternative is much worse. If this means more secessionist movements , let it come.We've dealt with them before.We'd do so again.I certainly wouldn't stand for an Assam or WB with a Muslim population mostly comprising of Bangladeshis to take over and dictate the political future of that region.

Iam not denying RSS take on Indian history, i'm happy to concur with you and i myself have stated this earlier, is mostly keeping in line with the British imperial intellectual tradition that they claim to abhor, but eulogize in practice. Nor am i ascribing the RSS retrograde point of view on all Northies. However there is no denying that Aryan Brahmanical chauvinism is at the root of the RSS-BJP world view and their acolytes. Thats all what I'm claiming.

On Lankan Tamils and the LTTE, its an elaborate topic, but sufficient to say that civilian tamils had no significant role in the meteroic rise of the LTTE. When Prabhahakan and Pottu Amman were busy eliminating other elam outfits in jaffna, Indian state watched this from the side lines and allowed LLTE to establish monopoly there. When popular and by the tallest tamil political leader of the Tamils( leader of TULF) Amruthalingam was assassinated by the LTTE, we did not take any action. Indian state was equally responsible for the massacres that ensured in the next decade. Nobody, outside the political circle, seriously support the LTTE, but their concern for the persecution of the Tamils, which is now happening unabated and without any local resistance is genuine and Indian govt should have taken similar steps to protect the Tamil Hindus.


P:S - Taking a neutral view, other than for the electoral benefit, i cant imagine why the BJP govt cannot settle all the 10-12 lakh Hindu bengalis left out in the NRC in WB and spare the Assamese this tension. I'm sure the TMC would not object, since it would be politically ruinious for them to oppose it..
I call those people slaves who believe in AIT and Aryan-Dravid divide. I request you to go thru that bthread in detail. Lot of information was provided there by many members and not alone by me. It will broaden your mental horizons.

I have been the most active participant in such threads and i must add with all humility, one of the handful of participants who discuss based on academic discipline and facts and not just wishful thinking. Most of your ideas sir , with no offense, are products of fertile imagination and not academic facts.
 
In the future people will talk about this bill like how the Americans talk about the Jim Crowe laws segregating the blacks.
 
In the future people will talk about this bill like how the Americans talk about the Jim Crowe laws segregating the blacks.

Hopefully we don't have to waiting that long. Recently i had a not so pleasant exchange with a Uk client, where an over the tea conversation lead to discussion about British colonialism and its affect, with both us taking our respective national position. I tried putting on my best Shashi Tharoor hat, with none of eloquence, and argued about all the ill affects of the colonialism, including racial discrimination. While the banter was harmless but not very pleasant, one statement of the Firang was quite telling. He told me that you Indians in your daily exercise about Hindu identity, Muslim identity and Buddhist identity, you reaffirm why we British were superior to you. We British decided you idea of national identity, which you you now call Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi. You Indians think you beat us in 1947, but its the other way around we defeated you Indians for the next thousand years, so long you remember that you are Hindus, Muslim, Buddhist and not the same Brown skinned Indians carrying the same blood who once had the illusion that you defeated the British empire.......

Although i never admitted this to his face, in my gut i know he was right.
 
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