Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

[Saaho]

Anyway, businesses can't do much to stop a country that's ready to go to war.

If China wants a war (which I suspect they MIGHT), then Indian businesses cann't do a damn. If India NEEDS a war (say, to preserve her territorial integrity) then they will influence the other two in the Trinity (Babu and Neta) enough to stop the war.

At best we will get some kind of useless surgical strike where all our bombs will miss targets precisely by 150 meters. Another Mig-21 (or May be this time Mig-29 UPG) will be shot because of RoE restricted even scanning the enemy fighters, let alone tracking it and we will have CDS convincing India that we have shot one J-10 and one J-20... This time using Microsoft Movie Maker visuals. There will be another 1000 km long thread where we will confuse sensor errors for bomb craters.

 

[_Anonymous_]

A good pointer into why in spite of the fact that we've formidable levels of forces deployed in Ladakh, the Chinese have the edge & this only in a 1 front war. Your opinion required here @Falcon , if possible a detailed exhaustive post. Especially to the points raised in his posts by the handle - Ravi@Editor_Orbat.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284919075815124997

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284919077723492352

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284923759569199105

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284923759569199105

THREAD!!

 

[_Anonymous_]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284930611577098242

 

[randomradio]

A good pointer into why in spite of the fact that we've formidable levels of forces deployed in Ladakh, the Chinese have the edge & this only in a 1 front war. Your opinion required here @Falcon , if possible a detailed exhaustive post. Especially to the points raised in his posts by the handle - Ravi@Editor_Orbat.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284919075815124997

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284919077723492352

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284923759569199105

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284923759569199105

THREAD!!

We don't need to match the Chinese man for man. When it comes to mountain warfare, the ratio is as high as 9:1 for the attacking side, even 12:1.

What we do need is an armoured brigade in South Ladakh and finish raising the MSC as planned.

But the main thrust should be aimed towards finishing reorganising the army into IBGs, this will allow us to do more with less.

 

[_Anonymous_]

We don't need to match the Chinese man for man. When it comes to mountain warfare, the ratio is as high as 9:1 for the attacking side, even 12:1.

What we do need is an armoured brigade in South Ladakh and finish raising the MSC as planned.

But the main thrust should be aimed towards finishing reorganising the army into IBGs, this will allow us to do more with less.

If I respected your knowledge on this subject, I'd have tagged you instead of the person I've tagged. Know your strengths & Stick to it.

 

[Saaho]

If I respected your knowledge on this subject, I'd have tagged you instead of the person I've tagged. Know your strengths & Stick to it.

No need to be acerbic to anyone mate. Its a public forum, a comment is expected by anyone interested. None of us, barring few, (I believe) have any combat experience, much less combat strategy or tactics. We are like folks who don't know anatomy of human body but are commenting and ogling surgical tools and medicines.

That said, there is something we can certainly analyze well, its the intents and motivations of the inmates who are running the asylum called "South Block".

 

[_Anonymous_]

No need to be acerbic to anyone mate. Its a public forum, a comment is expected by anyone interested. None of us (I believe) have any combat experience, much less combat strategy or tactics. We are like folks who don't know anatomy of human body but are commenting and ogling surgical tools and medicines.

That said, there is something we can certainly analyze well, its the intents and motivations of the inmates who are running the asylum called "South Block".

Hence that post was addressed to a certain somebody specifically who's served in those very areas, consequently has adequate experience, hence is certainly in a much better position to comment on ORBAT as compared to everybody else out here.

 

[Hydra]

The only way a war will happen is if China does something really provocative which puts the Holy Trinity (Babu, Neta, Businessmen) in a deep soup. Why will China do so? To send a message to all those having any kind of interest in India: US, Japan etc. Then a token surgical strike will happen. It will give China excuse to invade India. Once Delhi is in danger, the Trinity will be forced to take action. Ultimately, they will stop Chinese invasion in Almbala or may be outskirts of Delhi and declare it a victory. We will get a new national holiday. Hurrah for victory! Meanwhile, we will need to take visa to visit Gurugaon.

Why you are bringing unnecessary elements on taking war decision? Did any one blame business men or babu or neta in 1962 defeat? You & me & we all are blaming government & nehru for that. Same thing is applicable now too, its the government & PM's responsibility to keep our country's pride high. Sadly, in ladkah goi didn't respond up to the mark, you need to blame government for that not babus.

What if US voids all the treasury bills that China holds. China would collapse. Their banks are extremely over leveraged, but china keeps hiding the the internal financial tremors under the rug. It is just the dollar muscle using which it can bully the world. And US can bring it down with a single stroke. It is all a question of if the US will.

Why wouod usa do that? That act will affects their economy aswell

 

[Saaho]

Why you are bringing unnecessary elements on taking war decision? Did any one blame business men or babu or neta in 1962 defeat? You & me & we all are blaming government & nehru for that. Same thing is applicable now too, its the government & PM's responsibility to keep our country's pride high. Sadly, in ladkah goi didn't respond up to the mark, you need to blame government for that not babus.

BTW, who do you think is the "Government"? At a fundamental level, it is us, for India is still a republic. But who is the government at a more pragmatic level?

I mean lets look at our Civics books from middle school. That should give us a good starting point.

 

[Hydra]

BTW, who do you think is the "Government". At a fundamental level, it is us, for India is still a republic. But who is the government at a more realistic level?

The one who rulingnthis nation by taking our vote. These so called babus are working under the government. And dont mislead otyers that these babus are taking a war call in this country, the goi does.

 

[randomradio]

If I respected your knowledge on this subject, I'd have tagged you instead of the person I've tagged. Know your strengths & Stick to it.

What I said is the best you're gonna get.

So cheers.

 

[Jaymax]

Why wouod usa do that? That act will affects their economy aswell

Its a fantasy. In reality it can never happen. US T bills sell because they are ironclad. If they lose that protection, they lose their value. No one will buy them in confidence anymore. US will have to offer higher interest rates and even then it won't get anywhere close to the value it enjoys currently ..... the ripple effect is intense.

 

[Hydra]

Its a fantasy. In reality it can never happen. US T bills sell because they are ironclad. If they lose that protection, they lose their value. No one will buy them in confidence anymore. US will have to offer higher interest rates and even then it won't get anywhere close to the value it enjoys currently ..... the ripple effect is intense.

Exactly, i saw many twitter handlers expecting unrealistic acts from USA & Europe on china. Some one even expecting USA donating india their stealth fighters, or USA fighting China directly. Bullshit, they fir get that in modern era, no one will figt someone else's war, here we are our own and suffering all the humiliation due to the decades of neglect on our military modernisation.

 

[Saaho]

The one who rulingnthis nation by taking our vote. These so called babus are working under the government. And dont mislead otyers that these babus are taking a war call in this country, the goi does.

Three "pillars" of government are : Legislature, Executive and Judiciary. Lets park Judiciary aside for they don't play that much role in foreign policy (AFAIK, and if someone knows better, correct me). That leave two : Legislature and Executive.

Now, are Executive (CDS/General also included in them) really under Legislative leaders? Nominally yes but practically they both serve under constitution. And I have good reason to believe that Executives have much firmer grip on those matters of how power flows from constitution. After all, Politicians usually come and go in power, executives live in the system much longer. So really, its the executives who run things. The name should be a clue. BTW, that does not still absolves Legilative leaders : our politicians from failure but given the fact that these folks have changed from BJP to Congress, I am more inclined to believe that deeper reason lies in executive : the more constant part of the system.

Now ask yourself, who funds elections of politicians? A good part comes from business folks. Will they have influence over Legislative leaders? I think yes.

So there you have it : The holy trinity.

 

[Jaymax]

Exactly, i saw many twitter handlers expecting unrealistic acts from USA & Europe on china. Some one even expecting USA donating india their stealth fighters, or USA fighting China directly. Bullshit, they fir get that in modern era, no one will figt someone else's war, here we are our own and suffering all the humiliation due to the decades of neglect on our military modernisation.

WhatsApp University strikes again.

The best we will get is expedited arms and munitions shipments. Some deployments on the periphery to tie up some chink units - IF we go to war.

Taiwan has a defence pact with the US and even they don't blindly count on the US coming to trade blows with China in case shit goes south. Our twitterati on the other hand think of US as a father in law who will come to save his daughter's husband. SMH.

 

[Hydra]

Three "pillars" of government are : Legislature, Executive and Judiciary. Lets park Judiciary aside for they don't play that much role in foreign policy (AFAIK, and if someone knows better, correct me). That leave two : Legislature and Executive.

Now, are Executive (CDS/General also included in them) really under Legislative leaders? Nominally yes but practically they both serve under constitution. And I have good reason to believe that Executives have much firmer grip on those matters of how power flows from constitution. After all, Politicians usually come and go in power, executives live in the system much longer. So really, its the executives who run things. The name should be a clue. BTW, that does not still absolves Legilative leaders : our politicians from failure but given the fact that these folks have changed from BJP to Congress, I am more inclined to believe that deeper reason lies in executive : the more constant part of the system.

Now ask yourself, who funds elections of politicians? A good part comes from business folks. Will they have influence over Legislative leaders? I think yes.

So there you have it : The holy trinity.

So in 1962, its the failure of babus not Nehru?

 

[Saaho]

What if US voids all the treasury bills that China holds. China would collapse. Their banks are extremely over leveraged, but china keeps hiding the the internal financial tremors under the rug. It is just the dollar muscle using which it can bully the world. And US can bring it down with a single stroke. It is all a question of if the US will.

It will be a sucker punch to Chinese financial system but not necessarily their "economy". They will still have factories and resources. Just a portion of their paper wealth will vaporize over night.

It will be like using a nuclear weapon for USA. I am inclined to believe USA will only do this for their own core interest. India is not a cause enough.

 

[Hydra]

WhatsApp University strikes again.

The best we will get is expedited arms and munitions shipments. Some deployments on the periphery to tie up some chink units - IF we go to war.

Taiwan has a defence pact with the US and even they don't blindly count on the US coming to trade blows with China in case shit goes south. Our twitterati on the other hand think of US as a father in law who will come to save his daughter's husband. SMH.

Yeah, not only twitter handlers, some other indian defense forum also have that same misconception. Fortunately, this forum is way more matured and no one blabber about usa fighting chinese for us

 

[Saaho]

So in 1962, its the failure of babus not Nehru?

The failure was primarily of Krishna Menon. Though he was a defence minister, he was very much of a babu himself. During 57-62 he was nominated into Rajya Sabha and took the charge of Defence ministry. Look at his career till his charge of defence ministry.

Neheru was responsible for over trusting him. He was too much in awe of Menon and his erudition. So yes, Nehru was responsible indeed as well.

 

[Hydra]

The failure was primarily of Krishna Menon. Though he was a defence minister, he was very much of a babu himself. During 57-62 he was nominated into Rajya Sabha and took the charge of Defence ministry. Look at his career till his charge of defence ministry.

So in 1962, its the failure of VK Krishna menon, the babu turned politician, Nehru was innocent. Thats what you try to convey?