India - France relations.

So where is the oversight on research subjects here? It's about "pro-Palestine" demonstrations, not about research.
But, they have oversight on "funding" (atleast selectively) on university. Which is the point.

Referring to political theory as "research" itself is a scam. I mean, conduct this kind of hogwash within your own country. Why are you using public funds for this in other nations?
 
And your solution to that is "go suck Uncle Sam's Cock"??

You can do as much fellatio to Biden but its not going to make India into China or even anywhere near them. If it was this simple, rest assured Modi and entire South Block are not beyond that.

Ask Pakistan. They are masters in alignment. Have been doing it for a very long time now.

What you need is fundamentals. Infra like Roads, electricity and ports. Skilled labour. Business friendly policies. Legal system that caters to businesses when needed without wasting 50 years. Do that and you will get all the investment, Biden or Trump not withstanding.
sigh... so much brain rot on this forum...people really stick onto their dogmas.....every single point you mention here, i have already addressed in my previous posts

>And your solution to that is "go suck Uncle Sam's Cock"??
Ans: my response from previous thread>>this is the 4th time I am saying this. Indian nationalists think that greater engagement with US means deepthroating them. there is no in-between.

>You can do as much fellatio to Biden but its not going to make India into China or even anywhere near them. If it was this simple, rest assured Modi and entire South Block are not beyond that.
Ans: Ever increasing american companies pouring their investment into india (semiconductors, solar, optics, etc) says otherwise.
Also, Modi & south block are already on their knees giving fellatio to biden admin anyways. White House met khalistani activists just before modi visit(a tight slap). So much so that Ajit Doval was not allowed on modi's entourage(another humiliation). But modi went anyway because he wants their investments. Looks like Modi admin is on their knees sucking hard despite what you say.

>Ask Pakistan. They are masters in alignment. Have been doing it for a very long time now.
Ans: just more brain-rot from indian nationalists. I specifically addressed this point in my previous response. let me copy it again -
"You give example of Pakistan, a very retarded country but not of Taiwan, South Korea or Japan, all of them have 32k to 35k USD GDP per capita. Pakistan failed to take advantage of its US support to grow its economy. Its retarded elites were happy to fill their own pockets. Now that they have fallen out with US, they are bitter. This bitterness is compounded when they see american companies making a bee-line to invest in india. Something they never cared about. Do you think if they were given another chance with US, they wouldn't take it? They absolutely would. Because they understand that US was the only reason why their economy was better than India for most of post-independence history."

>What you need is fundamentals. Infra like Roads, electricity and ports. Skilled labour. Business friendly policies. Legal system that caters to businesses when needed without wasting 50 years. Do that and you will get all the investment, Biden or Trump not withstanding.
Ans: I already addressed all these points in my previous responses to randomradio. The essence was that there was no major change in India's investment climate before the pandemic & after the pandemic but something changed as more and more american companies started pouring their capital into india. That was because of geopol alignment with US nothing else.
Quoting my previous responses - "WTF is a low-mid end induatry idk but all I see is american companies like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Micron, AMD, etc investing heavily in india despite India not having good enough business environment. Which means there is artificial pressure on them from above(white house) to industrialise India. French companies like Airbus on the other hand don't even look towards india while they are planning to increase their investments in the assembly plant they have in China. All this is happenning while Air India + Indigo are buying record amount of planes from these countries. Waste of opportunity. Shameless."
"
>quality of trade, not quantity
your goal posts will never stop shifting. I have given you so much data by now, its not even funny. India's trade surplus with US increased from $24billion to $38Billion b/w 2020 and 2022. Please do tell, what quality of indian products changed in these 2 years? This was a result of greater alignment with US interests. I like to see it. Similarly, there has been no change in investment ecosystem in the last few years but now so many semiconductor firms are ready to invest in india. Why? what quality changed? Its the geopolitics and interests, not quality."

See the point here is that I have refuted randomradio & others so many times but they will not change their viewpoints. Aadat se majboor. I specifically like how randomradio will go in random directions & when his points get refuted he wont reply, but ghum gham ke, 10 reply ke baad, usi topic ko firse regurgitate kardega. like this one -

">While India is trying to reduce strategic dependency on the US
Wow, what weird way to reduce strategic dependency-
All 83 tejas mk1a will run on american F404 engines. All future jets(tejas mk2, TEDBF, AMCA mk1) will run on american F414 engines. Almost all future frigates/destroyers/Aircraft Carriers will run on US General Electric LM2500 gas turbine engines. What a weird way to reduce strategic dependency? wow, maybe randomradio can tell us something we don't know."

There is no point in arguing with such people. I realised this and stopped replying. Saaho I didn't read your posts either. I understand their is no point. I will probably get replies on this thread but won't really bother replying until september 2025. See you in a year boys!!!
 
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I sometimes feel bad for RST . Every third or fourth member here takes a shine to him & beats him up black & blue. This third or fourth member is usually a member who pays random ( pun unintended ) visits to the forum , some newbie who's just joined & at times the likes of Paddy which is truly a shame especially the last part .
 
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sigh... so much brain rot on this forum...people really stick onto their dogmas.....every single point you mention here, i have already addressed in my previous posts
None. You addressed none.

Ans: my response from previous thread>>this is the 4th time I am saying this. Indian nationalists think that greater engagement with US means deepthroating them. there is no in-between.
Have you ever seen any in-betweens for developing countries? US says do not buy Russian oil and all of them have to bow down. US says no russian weapons and none of them buy Russian weapons. Even turkey is looking to get rid of their russian S-400. Have you ever seen Japan take a stance that is anti USA? Have you seen South Korea try to take a pro Russia stance for their own benefits?

Thats what it means with alignment.

BTW one can prosper and not align at all. Ask Chinese.

Ans: just more brain-rot from indian nationalists. I specifically addressed this point in my previous response. let me copy it again -
"You give example of Pakistan, a very retarded country but not of Taiwan, South Korea or Japan, all of them have 32k to 35k USD GDP per capita. Pakistan failed to take advantage of its US support to grow its economy. Its retarded elites were happy to fill their own pockets. Now that they have fallen out with US, they are bitter. This bitterness is compounded when they see american companies making a bee-line to invest in india. Something they never cared about. Do you think if they were given another chance with US, they wouldn't take it? They absolutely would. Because they understand that US was the only reason why their economy was better than India for most of post-independence history."
The bigger question is that did Japan, Korea and Taiwan succeed because of US alignment or did they succeed because of their own policies? Japan was war-torn, it fixed its economy by developing an export oriented hi-tech industry in all sectors. South Korea followed similar but also included construction. Taiwan picked up semiconductors.

The most interesting example is China. They did not align at ALL. They picked up EVERY God damned thing and beat USA at its own game. You know how much China used to recieve in FDI? In 1997 it was about 40 odd billion dollars. India recieved only 28 billion in 2023. Its highest FDI EVER is some 67 billion dollars. China got more than that in 2004. And in 90s US China relationship was very bitter. As it is today.

By 2005 China was recieving 100+ billion dollars in FDi EACH YEAR! This was the game changer. And it kept on going till 2022. No amount of alignment will bring this money in India. You need investor's confidence to bring that money in India.

Ask yourself, why the hell in 90s & 2000s investors were SO god damn keen to put more money in China than they are doing it right now in India? What did China offer them at that point?

Source : World Bank Open Data

The upshot is simple, something you do not wish to even consider.

If your nation is capable and enterprising, NO alignment is needed to prosper. (See China)
If your nation is incapable no amount of alignment is going to fix your economy. (See Pakistan)


Rest is all bullshit. Fix your fundamentals and rest will work out.
 
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#bilateral defence cooperation
#space collaboration
#Ukraine
#cooperation in cyber and space sectors
#Strategic Dialogue
#Indo-Pacific partnerships
#Rafale Marine
#Scorpène subs
#nuthin about SSN :(

Synopsis​

National Security Advisor Ajit Doval met France's Armed Forces Minister Sebastien Lecornu in Paris. They focused on enhancing bilateral defence cooperation and space collaboration. They also discussed the evolving global situation, particularly in Ukraine. Doval led the Strategic Dialogue with Emmanuel Bonne, reinforcing Indo-Pacific partnerships and cooperation in cyber and space sectors.

Paris- National Security Advisor Ajit Doval has met the Armed Forces Minister of France here and discussed enhancing bilateral defence relations and advancing space collaboration, as well as the "evolving" global situation. "On his visit to France, India's National Security Advisor, Shri Ajit Doval, engaged in extensive discussions with French Armed Forces Minister, Mr Sebastien Lecornu," the Indian embassy in France said in a post on X on Tuesday.

"Their dialogue aimed at deepening bilateral defence cooperation and advancing space collaboration, while also sharing insights on the evolving international geopolitical landscape," it said.

Lecornu also took to X after the meeting and said they discussed "our bilateral defence cooperation: Rafale Marine, Scorpene submarines, space. As well as the international situation, particularly in Ukraine."

Doval also led the Strategic Dialogue here with Emmanuel Bonne, the Diplomatic Advisor to French President Emmanuel Macron.

The dialogue "anchors the strategic partnership of great trust and comfort, and high ambitions and responsibilities in the Indo-Pacific and beyond, and from cyber to space", the Indian embassy said in a separate post.
/end
 
#bilateral defence cooperation
#space collaboration
#Ukraine
#cooperation in cyber and space sectors
#Strategic Dialogue
#Indo-Pacific partnerships
#Rafale Marine
#Scorpène subs
#nuthin about SSN :(

Synopsis​

National Security Advisor Ajit Doval met France's Armed Forces Minister Sebastien Lecornu in Paris. They focused on enhancing bilateral defence cooperation and space collaboration. They also discussed the evolving global situation, particularly in Ukraine. Doval led the Strategic Dialogue with Emmanuel Bonne, reinforcing Indo-Pacific partnerships and cooperation in cyber and space sectors.

Paris- National Security Advisor Ajit Doval has met the Armed Forces Minister of France here and discussed enhancing bilateral defence relations and advancing space collaboration, as well as the "evolving" global situation. "On his visit to France, India's National Security Advisor, Shri Ajit Doval, engaged in extensive discussions with French Armed Forces Minister, Mr Sebastien Lecornu," the Indian embassy in France said in a post on X on Tuesday.

"Their dialogue aimed at deepening bilateral defence cooperation and advancing space collaboration, while also sharing insights on the evolving international geopolitical landscape," it said.

Lecornu also took to X after the meeting and said they discussed "our bilateral defence cooperation: Rafale Marine, Scorpene submarines, space. As well as the international situation, particularly in Ukraine."

Doval also led the Strategic Dialogue here with Emmanuel Bonne, the Diplomatic Advisor to French President Emmanuel Macron.

The dialogue "anchors the strategic partnership of great trust and comfort, and high ambitions and responsibilities in the Indo-Pacific and beyond, and from cyber to space", the Indian embassy said in a separate post.
/end
 
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Namaskaar, thank you!
In fact i had read the article that the lady wrote for theprint, but I didn't repost it here because unfortunately she doesn't source her assertions on India-France collaboration in SSN, nor does she specify the areas of this collaboration: tails? Sonar? ...propulsion????
We need assistance in all three..... propulsion, Automation & Sonar.
 
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India’s defence industry is benefiting from cooperation with France

India’s defence industry is benefiting from the country’s switch away from Russia and towards France for weapons acquisition.

India and France have cooperated on several key defence projects, such as Kalvari-class submarines, the Chetak and Cheetah helicopters and the Shakti helicopter engine. These projects involved technology transfer to India under licensed production from French companies.

Since the 1960s, Russia has been India’s primary defence partner and weapons supplier. However, India’s arms imports from Russia have fallen to a historic low. According to a Stockholm International Peace Research Institute report, India’s defence imports from Russia fell from 76 percent during the 2009–13 period to 36 percent during the 2019–23 period. It marks the first time since the 1960s that less than half of India’s arms imports came from Russia.

The Russia–Ukraine war, ensuing Western sanctions on Russian entities and growing camaraderie between Russia and China have further prompted India to reduce its reliance on Russian defence exports. Additionally, India has faced significant delays in the delivery for several orders from Russia, such as the S-400 surface-to-air missile system and T-90S tanks. All of this has led to India placing no fresh orders with Russia since the beginning of the Russia–Ukraine war.

Instead, it has increased arms imports from Western countries, mainly France and the United States. France emerged as India’s second-largest defence supplier during the 2019–23 period, when 33 percent of Indian imported arms originated from France. (The US supplied 13 percent of India’s defence imports in the same period.)

Now that France has become a significant arms supplier, the Indian government is looking for possible opportunities for collaboration with it on advanced defence technologies.

French aerospace maker Safran and India’s Defence Research and Development Organisation are negotiating to manufacture an engine for India’s fifth-generation fighter jet, the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft Mk 2. Moreover, Safran is willing to engage in 100 percent technology transfer across various project phases, including design development, certification and production.

The project involves not only the transfer of technology to develop jet engines—usually the most technically challenging part of an aircraft—but also allows the firms to work together on advanced materials and metallurgy, which are important for making aircraft engines.

Such a partnership will give India access to technologies and industrial processes necessary for making the engines. The ability to domestically manufacture fighter engines may help the Indian Air Force to address its extreme shortage of combat squadrons.

Safran will also collaborate with India to develop helicopters that are likely to be the mainstay of the Indian Armed Forces rotorcraft fleet. The company is supporting the propulsion side of the Indian Multi-Role Helicopter program. The program aims to develop medium-lift helicopters to replace India’s Mi-17 helicopters. Safran has also agreed with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to transfer forging and casting technology for the Shakti engine, which powers the Indian state company’s Dhruv, Rudra, Light Utility and Prachand helicopters.

On the naval front, India’s Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers have signed a memorandum of understanding with France’s Naval Group to collaborate on surface ships. The collaboration will support a ship design based on the Naval Group’s Gowind class for the Indian market and friendly foreign countries.

Political reliability and longstanding defence ties make France a dependable defence partner for India. Its emergence as a significant weapons supplier is benefiting India’s defence industry by equipping it with the technology and expertise to manufacture defence products domestically.
 
jan.09.25_thediplomat

Why France Is India’s Best Bet for Building Nuclear-Powered Submarines​

By Rahul Mishra and Harshit Prajapati

The acquisition of SSNs represents a significant step in enhancing India’s deterrence in the Indian Ocean. But India will need help in the endeavor, and France is the most attractive partner.

China’s expanding presence in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) has been marked by an uptick in the deployment of submarines and the frequent visits of Chinese surveillance and research vessels. These vessels, ostensibly engaged in scientific exploration, often gather crucial seabed data to facilitate Chinese submarine operations, presenting a strategic challenge for India.

Nuclear-powered submarines (SSNs), with their superior endurance and operational range enabled by nuclear reactors, provide a robust platform for countering such activities. SSNs are pivotal for enhancing India’s maritime capabilities in the Indian Ocean Region, where India’s geographical advantage gives it an edge over China.

However, India’s current submarine fleet is dominated by conventional submarines, which are limited in range and endurance. The existing fleet of nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs) is reserved primarily for nuclear deterrence. To address this gap, SSNs are an essential addition, particularly as neighboring countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh also augment their submarine capabilities.

In October 2024, India made a decisive move by approving a project to construct two nuclear-powered submarines and eventually expand this fleet to include four more. This decision underscores the increasing urgency felt by the Indian Navy to bolster its capabilities, particularly in response to the growing strategic challenge posed by China in the IOR. The acquisition of SSNs represents a significant step in enhancing India’s deterrence and operational range in a region where its influence is critical and contested.

Regional Dynamics and the Role of AUKUS

Geopolitical tensions stemming from the intensifying rivalry between the United States and China have accelerated the pace of military modernization in the region. The AUKUS agreement, which aims to equip Australia – India’s Quad partner – with SSNs, exemplifies this trend. Further, other Indo-Pacific countries, such as Indonesia and Malaysia, are also aiming to bolster their submarine fleets. In March 2024, Indonesia signed an agreement to acquire two Scorpene-class submarines from France, and Malaysia intends to acquire two more submarines under its 14th and 15th Malaysia Plans (2031-35 and 2036-40).

Closer to home, Pakistan’s acquisition of Hangor-class submarines and Bangladesh’s procurement of Ming-class submarines – both purchased from China – highlight a regional arms buildup that necessitates India’s response. The first of eight Hangor II submarines for Pakistan was launched at the Wuchang Shipbuilding yard in Wuhan, China in early 2024.

The proliferation of advanced submarine technology among regional actors underscores the necessity for India to develop SSNs to safeguard its interests in an increasingly complex strategic environment.

The Indian Navy plans to construct the SSNs at the Ship Building Center in Visakhapatnam. The complexity of SSN technology, which combines advanced propulsion systems, stealth capabilities, and high-endurance features, poses a formidable challenge to India’s nascent defense-industrial base. Historically, India has relied on foreign assistance for such projects. For instance, India’s SSBNs were developed with significant Russian support, and the country has previously leased Akula-class SSNs from Russia. However, the geopolitical fallout from the Russia-Ukraine war and the accompanying sanctions on Russian entities have disrupted defense collaborations, causing delays in ongoing projects. Payments for a new lease agreement signed in 2019 have been stalled, with the project unlikely to be completed before 2028.

These challenges highlight the urgency of diversifying India’s defense partnerships.

France: A Reliable and Strategic Partner

France has emerged as a pivotal partner in India’s defense landscape. According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), France became the second-largest global arms exporter in 2024, with India being its primary customer. This reflects a shift in India’s defense procurement strategy, which aims to reduce over-reliance on Russia. Between 2009 and 2023, India’s defense imports from Russia dropped dramatically, from 76 percent of India’s total from 2009-2013 to 36 percent from 2019-2023. This strategic pivot aligns with India’s broader goal of diversifying its defense imports, making France an ideal collaborator for the SSN project.

The France-India strategic partnership, established in 1998, has deepened significantly over the past decade. France stood by India in 1998 when many Western nations, including the United States, imposed sanctions in response to India’s nuclear tests. This history of political reliability and mutual trust is a cornerstone for any collaboration involving sensitive defense technologies like SSNs.

Advanced Technology and Joint Development

France has proposed sharing advanced technologies, such as pump-jet propulsion, which enhances the stealth and efficiency of submarines. This proposal reflects France’s willingness to engage in meaningful technology transfer, a critical factor for India as it seeks to develop indigenous defense capabilities. The first of India’s six planned SSNs may feature French pump-jet technology, while subsequent models could incorporate Indian-designed propulsion systems once these have been tested and validated.

The French Suffren-class SSNs, also known as the Barracuda class, renowned for their low noise signature and advanced nuclear reactors, offer significant advantages over India’s existing submarine capabilities. For instance, the nuclear reactors proposed for these submarines are rated at 190 MW, compared to the 84 MW reactors used in India’s SSBNs designed with Russian assistance. This substantial improvement in reactor power translates into greater operational range and endurance, which are essential for India’s strategic objectives in the IOR.

India’s defense-industrial ecosystem stands to benefit from its long-standing collaboration with the French Naval Group, the manufacturer of Suffren-class submarines. The Naval Group previously partnered with Indian firms to co-produce Scorpene-class submarines, which incorporated several Indian components. For example, the integration of an Indian-developed air-independent propulsion system and combat systems supplied by Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) demonstrates the success of this collaboration. These experiences provide a strong foundation for the co-production of SSNs, aligning with the Indian government’s vision of greater domestic participation in defense manufacturing.

France’s Commitment to India’s Defense Modernization

France has consistently expressed its willingness to support India’s SSN program. In 2017, then-Indian Naval Chief Sunil Lanba visited a French shipyard to examine the Suffren-class SSNs. More recently, during Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to France in July 2023, the two nations released the “Horizon 2047” document, outlining ambitious plans for defense collaboration, which includes building India’s submarine fleet. French Ambassador to India Emmanuel Lenain reaffirmed France’s commitment to delivering cutting-edge defense technologies without restrictions, emphasizing the depth of trust between the two nations.

The political trust between India and France, reinforced by decades of reliable collaboration, makes France the most suitable partner for building SSNs. Unlike other Western nations, France has consistently demonstrated a willingness to share critical technologies and adapt to India’s specific defense needs. The Naval Group’s expertise in advanced submarine technologies, combined with India’s growing industrial capabilities, creates a synergistic partnership that promises to deliver world-class SSNs.

Conclusion

In an era of shifting geopolitical alignments and intensifying great-power competition, the partnership between India and France stands out as a model of trust, reliability, and mutual benefit. The construction of SSNs represents a critical milestone for India’s defense capabilities, addressing both immediate strategic challenges and long-term security needs. France’s proven track record in advanced submarine technology, combined with its willingness to engage in meaningful technology transfer, makes it an indispensable partner for India’s SSN program. As both nations work together to navigate the challenges of the 21st century, their collaboration on SSNs will serve as a testament to the strength and resilience of their strategic partnership. /end

(i wish u all a happy new year)