Rafale M of Indian Navy - Updates & Discussions

I have the impression that the only disadvantage of doing “governments to governments” is that it's never enough to set up an assembly line in India (you need at least 100), but with the 26 we're setting up a fuselage production line, so maybe we'll go step by step with each batch they order, in which case the chances of the 40 have increased a lot.
  • 26 Marine => you start partial production.
  • +40 IAF (without tender) => you complete the local workload.
  • + maybe 74 remaining (to reach 114) later in two steps => you would then have enough to economically justify a full FAL.
As a result, the chances of going G2G fast have increased considerably: by gradually installing industrial capacity, India avoids wasting time and does not abandon its objective of industrial sovereignty. The manufacture of fuselages for the 26 Marines paves the way, making the G2G contract for 40 IAF more attractive and more likely than before.

The ToT for these stopgap deals seems to be left for the OEMs to decide, whereas MRFA will see some negotiations.

These stopgap deals are independent from MRFA. The govt and IAF need MRFA for more than just a fighter jet, there are other political implications involved.

Maybe a potential war with Pakistan could kill MRFA in favor of more Rafales, or we could buy more Rafales and launch MRFA simultaneously to make up for some heavy losses expected.

So it's possible that the elimination of 100-150 jets over the next 2 months over Pakistan could see us buying Rafale in numbers, and MRFA will be launched for a non-Rafale jet, or something else will replace MRFA but with similar impact. It's become quite unpredictable now.
 
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The ToT for these stopgap deals seems to be left for the OEMs to decide, whereas MRFA will see some negotiations.

These stopgap deals are independent from MRFA. The govt and IAF need MRFA for more than just a fighter jet, there are other political implications involved.

Maybe a potential war with Pakistan could kill MRFA in favor of more Rafales, or we could buy more Rafales and launch MRFA simultaneously to make up for some heavy losses expected.

So it's possible that the elimination of 100-150 jets over the next 2 months over Pakistan could see us buying Rafale in numbers, and MRFA will be launched for a non-Rafale jet, or something else will replace MRFA but with similar impact. It's become quite unpredictable now.
MRFA wat also see Rafale emerge as a winner. Dassault already has some industrial feet to be ready before any other.
And with F5 std on the horizon, it always has a brillant futur.
 
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Probably.
But the quality was found more attractive than price because it wins in IAF and in IN. And probably twice in the IAF case.
SH18 was supposed to be a little bit cheaper.
We know the IAF loves its M-2000s too much to skimp on them. There was a competing upgrade offer from the Isrealis (IAI) which worked out cheaper but they still chose the OEM.

Though expensive, I'd say the upgrade paid for itself over Balakot (low altitude terrain hugging flight thanks to RDY-3 TF mode).

And as I've mentioned in another thread, the IN would've preferred to buy the Rafale-M instead of MiG-29K had Russia not objected. You should have offered us the Clemenceau or one of your older carriers vs Russia's Gorshkov.
 
I am talking about if war losses forces us to go for 2 types of jets at the same time in order to maximise supplier sources and increase political clout.
A new production line in India and a new production line in France + an increase of Merignac production line... we are producing 65 Airbus by month because they are needed. The same for Rafale, if they are needed we can produce them.
 
We know the IAF loves its M-2000s too much to skimp on them. There was a competing upgrade offer from the Isrealis (IAI) which worked out cheaper but they still chose the OEM.

Our procurement rules state OEM is the first point of contact. We look at others when OEM cannot meet expectations.

For MKI, HAL is the OEM.

And as I've mentioned in another thread, the IN would've preferred to buy the Rafale-M instead of MiG-29K had Russia not objected. You should have offered us the Clemenceau or one of your older carriers vs Russia's Gorshkov.

That was unrealistic. France would have had to provide significant details about the Rafale to Russia to qualify the carrier. The only choice was Mig-29K.
 
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A new production line in India and a new production line in France + an increase of Merignac production line... we are producing 65 Airbus by month because they are needed. The same for Rafale, if they are needed we can produce them.

The issue is beyond a certain number buying more jets of the same type is pointless.

If we ignore the current lot of Mk1s and Rafales (as they will be replaced by Mk1A/Mk2 and Rafales anyway), with the rest being irrelevant ('cause they are set to be replaced), any losses among MKIs will have to be closed up with a new jet. If we lose 70-100 MKIs, we can induct 6-7 squadrons of a new jet, even after counting LCA, Rafale, and AMCA, all at 200+.
 
The issue is beyond a certain number buying more jets of the same type is pointless.

If we ignore the current lot of Mk1s and Rafales (as they will be replaced by Mk1A/Mk2 and Rafales anyway), with the rest being irrelevant ('cause they are set to be replaced), any losses among MKIs will have to be closed up with a new jet. If we lose 70-100 MKIs, we can induct 6-7 squadrons of a new jet, even after counting LCA, Rafale, and AMCA, all at 200+.
The Rafale has replaced 7 different types of aircraft in France, so I'm sure it can replace MKIs too.
 
That was unrealistic. France would have had to provide significant details about the Rafale to Russia to qualify the carrier. The only choice was Mig-29K
No. If France had offered one of their older carriers (like the one they sold to Brazil), we could've ditched MiG and gone for the Rafale-M back in 2010. But then again, Gorshkov and it's airwing were all tied to the Akula so we had absolutely no wiggle room anyway.
 
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Rafale-M once inducted, will ensure full fighter strength on both aircraft carriers


The Rafale-M fighter jets, 26 of which were contracted last week, once inducted from the second quarter of 2028 onwards, will enable the Indian Navy to field both its aircraft carriers with the full complement of their fighters. However, the jet as well as the flight deck of the carrier would need slight modifications for the Rafale-M to be able to fit on the lifts and for optimal performance.

The lifts would need some modifications for the Rafale-M to fit in and as the Indian carriers use a ski-jump, the overall system would also need some changes,” a source said.

On the aircraft, the wing pylons of Rafale need to be taken off, which takes a few minutes, before they can be moved on the lift, another source said. The lifts on board a carrier are used to move the jets and equipment between the hanger below and the flight deck above.

The consolidation of the capital allocation in the defence budget done two years back, doing away with service-specific capital allocation, also came handy in prioritising the payments for the Rafale deal, that was earlier planned to be concluded in the previous fiscal.

The delivery of these aircraft would begin in the second quarter of 2028 and be completed by the end of 2030, with the crew undergoing training in France and India.

Inter-governmental deal​

On April 28, India and France concluded an Inter-Governmental Agreement for the procurement of 26 Rafale-Marine jets – 22 single-seater and four twin-seater — for the Indian Navy. The agreement includes training, simulator, associated equipment, weapons and performance-based logistics (PBL) for five years costing nearly ₹64,000 crore. The cost of the deal was not officially mentioned. The deal also includes additional equipment for the existing 36 Rafale fleet of the Indian Air Force, which, officials said, includes some support and maintenance equipment. Rafale-M would be capable of operating from both the carriers – INS Vikramaditya and INS Vikrant.

The country’s first indigenous carrier INS Vikrant, measuring 262 metres long and 62 metres wide, can operate an air wing of 30 aircraft comprising MiG-29K fighter jets and, in the future, Rafale-Ms, Kamov-31 early warning helicopters, MH-60R multi-role helicopters and indigenous Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH). Both the carriers use the STOBAR (short take-off but arrested recovery) method to launch and recover aircraft for which it is equipped with a ski- jump to launch aircraft, and three ‘arrester wires’ for their recovery.

The Navy and Defence Ministry were keen to conclude the deal in the 2024-25 financial year. Funds were earmarked in the capital budget. However, as the deal got delayed it would have meant that unspent money would be returned to the Finance Ministry.

Capital utilisation​

To avoid that and to optimise the capital utilisation, the Union government cleared and concluded another mega-deal that was in the pipeline but was to be concluded early fiscal year 2025-26: the deal for 156 Light Combat Helicopters (LCH) with Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) at a cost of ₹62,700 deal was advanced and concluded on March 28, 2025. “The doing away of the service-specific capital allocation has been beneficial in better managing the procurement cycles,” one of the sources cited above observed.

The Rafale is a multi-role aircraft capable of undertaking air defence, escort, maritime strike, strike against shore targets, reconnaissance and buddy refuelling missions. The Navy had procured 45 MIG-29K jets from Russia along with INS Vikramaditya. Around 40 jets are available now but their serviceability rates have been not been up to the mark, which leaves a gap in fighter strength in case both carriers are deployed simultaneously.

In the case of the IAF Rafales, the contract had stipulated that its manufacturer Dassault Aviation be part of the performance-based logistics to ensure 75% availability rate of the fleet.

The Indian Navy aircraft carriers with its full complement of fighter aircraft have the ability to exercise sea control and strike enemy units at extended ranges while remaining well outside enemy weapon ranges, a Navy source observed, adding “The Rafale will also effectively provide the Navy with an ability to effect operations on land through shore strikes.”
 
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On the aircraft, the wing pylons of Rafale need to be taken off, which takes a few minutes, before they can be moved on the lift, another source said.
I've been saying this for over 7 years: