British/Italian Tempest (GCAP) Fighter : News and Discussion

Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik said:
AFAIK the only jet to have such fine mesh grill is F-117. It would require de-icing. IDK how exactly it was done in F-117 but generally it is done by engine bleed air (hot). So it should not increase IRS.
What about supersonic performance impact by such mesh?
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What are these things? Side radar array?
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It is side array antenna indeed. Conformal ones. The future of all fighters.
 
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Innominate said:
Japan approaches India to join its next-gen fighter jet project (GCAP) with the UK and Italy, aiming to share costs and boost defense ties.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1918323446003712404

BREAKING: Japan Invites India to Join 6th-Gen GCAP Fighter Jet Program with UK & Italy!
https://twitter.com/x/status/1918372742925304249

India should really join and field a stealth fighter in the mid 2030's instead of AMCA 2040's.
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No point getting into it now and locking ourselves for large numbers when we can compare it to other options in the future. India still prefers the current plan anyway. GCAP will also take time, 2035 is only for an initial version.
 
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randomradio said:
No point getting into it now and locking ourselves for large numbers when we can compare it to other options in the future. India still prefers the current plan anyway. GCAP will also take time, 2035 is only for an initial version.
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Considering RR is most likely winning the AMCA engine deal we could join GCAP and develop technologies and integrate european and japanese munitions on the AMCA. We can start producing the su-57mki and also start working procuring the F-35's.
 
Lolwa said:
Considering RR is most likely winning the AMCA engine deal we could join GCAP and develop technologies and integrate european and japanese munitions on the AMCA. We can start producing the su-57mki and also start working procuring the F-35's.
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Why would they let us join in developing critical technologies which they can build themselves?

+ I don't think there is much stuff where the japanese and Europeans can add to AMCA and even if there is something to be integrated on AMCA, it would probably be French or Israeli rather than British or japanese. Moreover you dont need to necessarily join a development program as an observer if you want to integrate foreign systems.

We won't be given a production line for su 57 without giving any orders and I dont think we'll give any.
 
The GCAP prog has advanced to the point where we won't get enough of a workshare to justify the double-digit investment. Same reason why we quit the FGFA program after spending some $400m.

Plus can the Brits and the Swedes be trusted to walk the talk on transferring their latest and greatest tech to India? The Swedes have backed out of P-75I due to ToT concerns in the recent past. And the UK is paranoid about India transferring their tech to Russia.
 
Speedster1 said:
The GCAP prog has advanced to the point where we won't get enough of a workshare to justify the double-digit investment. Same reason why we quit the FGFA program after spending some $400m.

Plus can the Brits and the Swedes be trusted to walk the talk on transferring their latest and greatest tech to India? The Swedes have backed out of P-75I due to ToT concerns in the recent past. And the UK is paranoid about India transferring their tech to Russia.
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Why would UK be paranoid about India transferring tech to Russia..... When Countries like UK, Japan, Germany, France etc all have transferred critical American tech to Russian in past.
 
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Zarion said:
Why would they let us join in developing critical technologies which they can build themselves?

+ I don't think there is much stuff where the japanese and Europeans can add to AMCA and even if there is something to be integrated on AMCA, it would probably be French or Israeli rather than British or japanese. Moreover you dont need to necessarily join a development program as an observer if you want to integrate foreign systems.

We won't be given a production line for su 57 without giving any orders and I dont think we'll give any.
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They need economies of scale and a partner who can mass produce them in the case of war. We are the perfect partner. We have GaN aesa tech, software/hardware based and composites technology. The only area we actually lack is jet propulsion and stealth materials which the Japanese and British can handle. Everything else can be produced in India. And with AMCA being developed we can build stealth materials too. So joining GCAP is completely logical move.
As for the su-57 the Russians said we would need 15-20% additional tooling to produce them. And su-57 gives us a lot of capabilities we get a 400km BVR missile with the r-37m and kh-101 and a 400 km aesa radar and decent EW capability. The Nasik and Koraput facilities need to be expanded to produce the al-41 and al-51. We will not only be facing the Pakistanis but a huge lot of Chinese Flankers and we need something that has lower RCS than Chinese j-16's and J-11BG's and that can face the j-20 or atleast pose some threat. Su-57 is a necessary evil that we need to get our hands on ASAP. We literally need 400 su-30mki-upg's and atleast 144-220 su-57 to face a 2.5 front war situation comfortably.
The IAF won't procure the f-35's unless the block 4 and tr3 refresh is completely online plus they are too focused on the mmrca.
By the the time GCAP comes online we will have retire the older su-30 airframes,mig-29's and jaguars.
We need
350-400 Flankers
72-144-200 FGFA
24-96 F-35A's block4/5
140-300 AMCA's
120 GCAP's.
Atleast
This is apart from the
36-250 Rafales
180-600 tejas mk1
200-400 tejas mk2
 
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Lolwa said:
Considering RR is most likely winning the AMCA engine deal we could join GCAP and develop technologies and integrate european and japanese munitions on the AMCA. We can start producing the su-57mki and also start working procuring the F-35's.
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I believe it will be the Americans or French, personally leaning on the Americans. Russia was brought in to ensure the West's compliance.

Anyway getting into GCAP would mean they will want a committment of 100-150 jets. Otoh, we do not need that many imports. We also need a jet that we can modify whenever we want, so that requires using our own avionics. What we need is a next gen airframe and engine combined with our own avionics if we plan on going for that many jets, which means we have to assume AMCA is insufficient. The only alternative is a stopgap silver bullet fleet of 2-3 squadrons using foreign avionics.

But I think we will stick with our current plan of LCA, MRFA, AMCA, and UCAVs. AMCA will likely be our last manned jet.
 
Speedster1 said:
Plus can the Brits and the Swedes be trusted to walk the talk on transferring their latest and greatest tech to India? The Swedes have backed out of P-75I due to ToT concerns in the recent past. And the UK is paranoid about India transferring their tech to Russia.
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Swedes? I think you mean some other country. + They are not paranoid about ToT to Russia. That one is the most illogical thing because we won't be getting any critical technology as development partners anyway let alone as an observer which is actually proposed afaik.
 
Lolwa said:
They need economies of scale and a partner who can mass produce them in the case of war. We are the perfect partner. We have GaN aesa tech, software/hardware based and composites technology. The only area we actually lack is jet propulsion and stealth materials which the Japanese and British can handle. Everything else can be produced in India. And with AMCA being developed we can build stealth materials too. So joining GCAP is completely logical move.
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We will get what we need through the engine JV and MRFA partner.

GCAP tech won't help AMCA due to the clash in timelines.
 
South block said:
Why would UK be paranoid about India transferring tech to Russia..... When Countries like UK, Japan, Germany, France etc all have transferred critical American tech to Russian in past.
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No, look at it in the post Ukraine context. India is among the few countries that continue to sell electronics, aircraft components, etc to Russia. Some of this tech has military applications.

This has made EU countries jittery about third-party tech leaks. In any case, India has stiff ToT requirements under DPP which a lot of UK companies have complained about in the past. This is a major reason why no major arms deals have been signed with them since ASRAAM a few years ago. Afaik, Starstreak has not yet been ordered by the IA.
 
Zarion said:
Swedes? I think you mean some other country. + They are not paranoid about ToT to Russia. That one is the most illogical thing because we won't be getting any critical technology as development partners anyway let alone as an o
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Swedes come from Sweden, home to the Nobel Foundation. Those guys will block arms sales at the drop of a hat and Russia is their nemesis. GCAP is an all white boys club currently and India is a third-world country.

We don't want to be treated as 2nd class partners. Besides, we have our hands full at the moment with LCA Mk1A, Mk2, AMCA and TEDBF, etc.
 
Speedster1 said:
No, look at it in the post Ukraine context. India is among the few countries that continue to sell electronics, aircraft components, etc to Russia. Some of this tech has military applications.

This has made EU countries jittery about third-party tech leaks. In any case, India has stiff ToT requirements under DPP which a lot of UK companies have complained about in the past. This is a major reason why no major arms deals have been signed with them since ASRAAM a few years ago. Afaik, Starstreak has not yet been ordered by the IA.
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Here post Ukrainian context..... India ain't selling s**t to Russia compared to what west is doing itself

 
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