Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan

[Defc0n]

I saw some one say that the forces should spell out how many jets were downed. There are also elements within the congress who are whipping up Jaishankers' old remarks and saying you informed them. A gentlemen wrote we lost a Billion Dollars in equipment. These things will again resurface. To be honest, the Govt. should expect these things. They were bound to happen. Not giving Pakistan initial leeway would mean total war. To be honest, looking at India's growth trajectory, I sympathise with PM Modi. Tough call. Too much going on Internationally all at once.

I disagree - doing SEAD/DEAD wouldn’t have resulted in total war. We did do SEAD ops once they started targeting our military infrastructure.

So let me ask you this, why is it always fair game for Pak to target our military infrastructure and have a guarantee of not having a “total war”?

It’s all about mindset, we have a tendency of being more concerned about being “morally correct” and due to this unwarranted obligation, end up in disadvantageous situations of our own making.

We have enough data and incidents and blood marks that was a direct result of Pak based ISI and terror infra. We have the right to self defence and putting our own interests before others.

This kind of BS RoE has no place in a situation where we are dealing with a state like Pakistan — we need to let go of “what others will think and say”, it’s our country and it’s our responsibility to protect it, whatever the cost.

 

[redpanda]

I am really not clear on why this nonsense is being peddled now. Either, stay mum, if indeed they plan to resume actions or come out and say we messed up/had constraints and lost a jet due to that. Given all objectives are met, this shouldn’t matter, however, will be a lesson for future operations.

At this point, I am at my wits end as to why this kind of nonsense is being spread which is undermining an otherwise brilliant op!

Issue is our folks are not mature enough to accept hardware losses. Unlike a few mature folks who are aware about the complex scenario of war/conflicts, most people take hardware losses too emotionally. If US/Israel would lose 3-4 F-16 then folks there would take it as just part of the conflict. But here if we have even lost a few mig 21s folks will start crying like crazy. So I can understand the hesitation among the administration to reveal anything immediately. Our politicians are not that matured either. We had folks peddling Jaishankar informed Pakistan before Op-Sindoor on 10-11th may. Too much drama. That's why all this hesitation and secrecy. Although I would like to clarify, I would prefer the government to be more accountable on this. Instead of messing it up any further.

 

[Shan]

I disagree - doing SEAD/DEAD wouldn’t have resulted in total war. We did do SEAD ops once they started targeting our military infrastructure.

So let me ask you this, why is it always fair game for Pak to target our military infrastructure and have a guarantee of not having a “total war”?

It’s all about mindset, we have a tendency of being more concerned about being “morally correct” and due to this unwarranted obligation, end up in disadvantageous situations of our own making.

We have enough data and incidents and blood marks that was a direct result of Pak based ISI and terror infra. We have the right to self defence and putting our own interests before others.

This kind of BS RoE has no place in a situation where we are dealing with a state like Pakistan — we need to let go of “what others will think and say”, it’s our country and it’s our responsibility to protect it, whatever the cost.

"It’s all about mindset, we have a tendency of being more concerned about being “morally correct” and due to this unwarranted obligation, end up in disadvantageous situations of our own making." You've built up your image as such and much of the bureaucratic base also works on the same logic. I differ SEAD/DEAD initially would result in military bases being targeted which could have resulted in war. Let's agree to disagree.

I am not averse to a war like the Iran-Israel war. 12 days with clear logic and objectives. No moral high grounds etc. This could have been a better course of action. However, no one can deny that considering the financial state of affairs and possible diplomatic backing to Pakistan by NATO and China such a war would also have been a difficult ask. The country is on the cusp of achieving certain things and the political leadership calculated that it wishes to remain risk averse. Trade deals are being negotiated with several countries. Whether you like it or you do not like it, there are certain restraints that are there in India within itself that make a total war the last step that the present govt. wishes to take.

The BJP made a decision and a bold one. It's just that such things like OP freedom denials and political constraints have their consequences. Israel has the absolute backing of NATO (there are 3 UNSC members just there). Who is backing you w/o any restraints right now? Can you handle sanctions? There are so many gunning against this govt. that I have lost count.

I don't mind the few assets lost. I absolutely endorse the fact that India had the upper hand and in the end closed the deal with a decent margin. Pakistanis can enjoy their twitter victory.

 

[Shan]

This is how the opposition of India has reacted to the incident in Indonesia. I wonder what they did after 26/11. After all as per the iNC, India at that time had the best PM as well as the most capable/respected cabinet. Also, interesting choice of paper - The Wire.

Instead of deterrence these guys would line up and beat their chests in front of the UN.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939251767784665202

 

[Defc0n]

"It’s all about mindset, we have a tendency of being more concerned about being “morally correct” and due to this unwarranted obligation, end up in disadvantageous situations of our own making." You've built up your image as such and much of the bureaucratic base also works on the same logic. I differ SEAD/DEAD initially would result in military bases being targeted which could have resulted in war. Let's agree to disagree.

I am not averse to a war like the Iran-Israel war. 12 days with clear logic and objectives. No moral high grounds etc. This could have been a better course of action. However, no one can deny that considering the financial state of affairs and possible diplomatic backing to Pakistan by NATO and China such a war would also have been a difficult ask. The country is on the cusp of achieving certain things and the political leadership calculated that it wishes to remain risk averse. Trade deals are being negotiated with several countries. Whether you like it or you do not like it, there are certain restraints that are there in India within itself that make a total war the last step that the present govt. wishes to take.

The BJP made a decision and a bold one. It's just that such things like OP freedom denials and political constraints have their consequences. Israel has the absolute backing of NATO (there are 3 UNSC members just there). Who is backing you w/o any restraints right now? Can you handle sanctions? There are so many gunning against this govt. that I have lost count.

I don't mind the few assets lost. I absolutely endorse the fact that India had the upper hand and in the end closed the deal with a decent margin. Pakistanis can enjoy their twitter victory.

Only question for you then, our position was that we hit their “terror infrastructure” and no Pakistan military infrastructure or personnel were harmed, then, Pakistan resorted to targeting our civilians and military infrastructure. Why did that not lead to a full scale war? How is Pakistan doing the same different from us doing it?

This is how the opposition of India has reacted to the incident in Indonesia. I wonder what they did after 26/11. After all as per the iNC, India at that time had the best PM as well as the most capable/respected cabinet. Also, interesting choice of paper - The Wire.

Instead of deterrence these guys would line up and beat their chests in front of the UN.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939251767784665202

Absolute fu*king clowns! Let’s not even consider their buffoonery while discussing this. On the other hand, GoI handed these morons with the ammunition needed to conjure these nonsense..

 

[South block]

First Nishan-e-Haider for participating in Operation chadi banyan counter offensive.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939325728098762803

 

[Shan]

Only question for you then, our position was that we hit their “terror infrastructure” and no Pakistan military infrastructure or personnel were harmed, then, Pakistan resorted to targeting our civilians and military infrastructure. Why did that not lead to a full scale war? How is Pakistan doing the same different from us doing it?

Pakistan states that certain sites that were targeted were public/civilian infrastructure that led to the deaths of innocent civilians. They took the narrative initiative and aptly shifted the public eye to their weal and woes. The rest is a series of escalations as they say. You were the aggressive party violating their sovereignty, targeting PAK proper, killing their civilians.

The fact that you did not start the war post the targeting of bases in India denotes that the government has no appetite for war. Pakistan struck second, you struck first. The world was mum to your 'Gandhian' stances ie. no SEAD. They escalated post your IAF striking their 'civilian' buildings.

"How is Pakistan doing the same different from us doing it?" That is the hypocrisy that the MEA keeps commenting about.

"Pakistan Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif called the action an "act of war" and claimed India targeted five locations. He warned of a strong response, saying Pakistan would not allow India to succeed in its objectives and that the nation and its armed forces are prepared to defend against any aggression."

"In Punjab, missiles hit a mosque in the city of Bahawalpur, killing a child and wounding two civilians, the military said."

Damaged buildings, mosques and blackout in terror camps: Operation Sindoor in pics

In retaliation to the Pahalgam terror attack, India on Wednesday conducted precision strikes on nine terror camps across Pakistan and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK).

www.indiatoday.in

India launches Operation Sindoor, exchanges heavy fire with Pakistan

Pakistan says 26 people killed, 46 injured in attacks, while India says eight were killed in retaliatory strikes.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Defc0n]

Pakistan states that certain sites that were targeted were public/civilian infrastructure that led to the deaths of innocent civilians. They took the narrative initiative and aptly shifted the public eye to their weal and woes. The rest is a series of escalations as they say. You were the aggressive party violating their sovereignty, targeting PAK proper, killing their civilians.

The fact that you did not start the war post the targeting of bases in India denotes that the government has no appetite for war. Pakistan struck second, you struck first. The world was mum to your 'Gandhian' stances ie. no SEAD. They escalated post your IAF striking their 'civilian' buildings.

"Pakistan Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif called the action an "act of war" and claimed India targeted five locations. He warned of a strong response, saying Pakistan would not allow India to succeed in its objectives and that the nation and its armed forces are prepared to defend against any aggression."

"In Punjab, missiles hit a mosque in the city of Bahawalpur, killing a child and wounding two civilians, the military said."

Damaged buildings, mosques and blackout in terror camps: Operation Sindoor in pics

In retaliation to the Pahalgam terror attack, India on Wednesday conducted precision strikes on nine terror camps across Pakistan and Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK).

www.indiatoday.in

India launches Operation Sindoor, exchanges heavy fire with Pakistan

Pakistan says 26 people killed, 46 injured in attacks, while India says eight were killed in retaliatory strikes.

www.aljazeera.com

Okay, so by that logic and based on Pakistan’s claim, we hit their “civilians”.

Is that not an even bigger red line than hitting military infrastructure? Imagine Pak hitting a civilian target in Amritsar with CM400, what would our response have been then? Shouldn’t this have also caused an all out war from Pak side then?

 

[South block]

This is how the opposition of India has reacted to the incident in Indonesia. I wonder what they did after 26/11. After all as per the iNC, India at that time had the best PM as well as the most capable/respected cabinet. Also, interesting choice of paper - The Wire.

Instead of deterrence these guys would line up and beat their chests in front of the UN.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939251767784665202

Khangress is a party of subaltern & meem alliance..... It always have been..... Wire is just a medium to express both communities views.

 

[Shan]

With my hands tied behind my back, I smacked my opponents into the ground: Some IAF pilot flying a Rafale during OP Sindoor. When you headbutt an opponent, your also bloody your forehead.

 

[banthelwa]

If they find pakistan has any hand in this then it's all over for them .

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939191895504363917

 

[South block]

If they find pakistan has any hand in this then it's all over for them .

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939191895504363917

mobile phone video surfaced showing plane crash occurring just seconds after takeoff......... The timing and content of the footage appear unusually precise, raising suspicion about how and why the person was filming at that exact moment.

 

[Shan]

Okay, so by that logic and based on Pakistan’s claim, we hit their “civilians”.

Is that not an even bigger red line than hitting military infrastructure? Imagine Pak hitting a civilian target in Amritsar with CM400, what would our response have been then? Shouldn’t this have also caused an all out war from Pak side then?

They were scared as well. To war or not to war with Endia? Did you not notice Asif running around like a headless chicken. However, with Pak fauj you cannot be certain. It is not a professional force to be honest. The rules of engagement and escalation with Pakistan rides on feelers. Now, I want you to imagine the position the govt is in.

Asim wants war. Asim wants Jihad. Asim claims he is lumber one. Asim is broke. Asims' military is also broke. Asim wants to project Pakistan as Superpower. Asim wants to do Terrory stuff. Asim is also scared he might lose while doing nasty stuff to Endia. Asim also has nukes. Asim wants to nuke India. Asim also has leashes on his neck. Asim is held up by other feudal factions and commanders. Asim says he is maulvi. Asim believes he is a maulvi. Asim is educated yet Jahil. Asim is also in debt. Asims' quam is in debt. Asims' quam is also Jahil.

Now be Asim. What would you do post strikes? Do you have any clear idea yourself?

The Pakistanis got to see you were coming and were prepared. They have to save their faces as well. They knew that you will take the moral high ground because you always do. They wanted a war that they cannot afford to wage. They realised this and terminated their plans midway due to your solid response post day 1.

 

[Defc0n]

mobile phone video surfaced showing plane crash occurring just seconds after takeoff......... The timing and content of the footage appear unusually precise, raising suspicion about how and why the person was filming at that exact moment.

I remember discussing this exact point the day this happened. The area where the video was shot from is near an airport and therefore visuals of flights taking off is extremely common phenomena there. It doesn’t make sense to keep a camera pointed in the direction. Also, if I recall correctly , the reaction of the person recording (if natural and normal) will be of shock, but the the one that came out was extremely calm.

Also:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1933084632159080513

This makes me think, did we have any intelligence, perhaps something that’s not in the public domain.

 

[Defc0n]

They were scared as well. To war or not to war with Endia? Did you not notice Asif running around like a headless chicken. However, with Pak fauj you cannot be certain. It is not a professional force to be honest. The rules of engagement and escalation with Pakistan rides on feelers. Now, I want you to imagine the position the govt is in.

Asim wants war. Asim wants Jihad. Asim claims he is lumber one. Asim is broke. Asims' military is also broke. Asim wants to project Pakistan as Superpower. Asim wants to do Terrory stuff. Asim is also scared he might lose while doing nasty stuff to Endia. Asim also has nukes. Asim wants to nuke India. Asim also has leashes on his neck. Asim is held up by other feudal factions and commanders. Asim says he is maulvi. Asim believes he is a maulvi. Asim is educated yet Jahil. Asim is also in debt. Asims' quam is in debt. Asims' quam is also Jahil.

Now be Asim. What would you do post strikes? Do you have any clear idea yourself?

LMAO!

While I agree with your assessment there, the entire strike inside Pak was a Pandora’s box by your logic. It could very well have escalated to a full blown war (say, Paneer was vibing ). With that kind of unknown, it’s idiotic to restrict your own forces to an extent where they will face operational disadvantages because of that. There is always an “acceptable risk” that’s measured and agreed upon and for a strike inside a nuke owning country, whether their AD is degraded before killing their “supposed” civilians or not makes no difference from Pak PoV - bottom line, their “supposed” civilians are dead

 

[randomradio]

Hellfire did mention in his tweets that Pak nukes are controlled by US. If India breaks Pak up, it will ensure that there are no active nuke in those broken parts.

True. It's possible Pak's already in the process of being denuclearized. I hope things are moving in that direction.

I think, it’s time for India to think for itself in the long run and end the nuisance of Pakistan. West can cry for some time, try a few sanctions, but that’s something we have seen before. It will eventually pass as west realises that India is the only force that can stand up to China. Let’s hope our military and political leadership has the will to solve the problem once and for all!

I'm definitely a fan of ending Pak as a military state once and for all. I'd prefer breaking them up and then building them back up again.

While I think we cannot deal with the political blowback right now, we should be in a position to do so by 2032 or so, we would have gained a lot of tech and financial independence by then. We need Pakistan solved well before 2035 so we are not carrying that baggage when China starts looking at India again.

 

[Shan]

While I agree with your assessment there, the entire strike inside Pak was a Pandora’s box by your logic. It could very well have escalated to a full blown war (say, Paneer was vibing ). With that kind of unknown, it’s idiotic to restrict your own forces to an extent where they will face operational disadvantages because of that. There is always an “acceptable risk” that’s measured and agreed upon and for a strike inside a nuke owning country, whether their AD is degraded before killing their “supposed” civilians or not makes no difference from Pak PoV - bottom line, their “supposed” civilians are dead

Agreed. Do not worry we will learn. There will be opportunities where you will not be restricted by N constraints.

Just a few jets and people on twitter who dodge taxes the most are asking the government for explanations. As if it was their money ever.

 

[randomradio]

I differ SEAD/DEAD initially would result in military bases being targeted which could have resulted in war. Let's agree to disagree.

We didn't go to war because Pakistan was not in a position to go to war.

We also did not want war, unless Pak wanted war.

And all our theatrics was for the Western govts, not Indians or Pakistanis. Many other countries do not know the realities of what's happening between India and Pakistan and our diplomatic outreach was aimed at them.

 

[Defc0n]

True. It's possible Pak's already in the process of being denuclearized. I hope things are moving in that direction.



I'm definitely a fan of ending Pak as a military state once and for all. I'd prefer breaking them up and then building them back up again.

While I think we cannot deal with the political blowback right now, we should be in a position to do so by 2032 or so, we would have gained a lot of tech and financial independence by then. We need Pakistan solved well before 2035 so we are not carrying that baggage when China starts looking at India again.

Agree in general, but, I am curious about the political blowbacks that we cannot deal with right now and what will change by 2032, 7 years from now?

 

[Defc0n]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1939359869892739554