They both want India to be their version of Korea or Japan.
Operation Sindoor: India Strikes Terroist Camps Inside Pakitsan
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Because they both want to deploy India against each other. Why would they work in concert ?
India's to the 21st century what China was in the last quarter of the previous century - a balancing power.
Whoever gets India to their side tips the balance in their favour.
And Galwan has become for India what Zanbao Island was to the Chinese.
That the Chinese picked the Imperialist Capitalist Laowai over their fraternal socialist allies was a tectonic shift.
India will end up aligning loosely with the west since China has shown they cannot reconcile with a rising India at their border.
No, US and China will NEVER work together against India.
Because... the intents are totally different.
For instance consider Japan. Japan is the ideal nation that US likes. Economic powerhouse, militarily strong but diplomatically neutered.
China on the other hand HATES Japan which can compete with it on any front including economic one.
The same is true with India... US does not want an India that has an independent foreign and military policy. It wants another Japan.
China wants ... well, India to disintegrate with resulting "states" to be fully Chinese puppets.
They are not the same. US wants a compliant but strong India. China does not want any India.
Hmm. Idk, many Chinese i have seen said they are scared of a disintegrated India because they don't want an Africa like mess on their doorstep, they think this will cause a torrid of human movement escaping conflict onto Tibet and other areas. India having nukes makes this even more complicated, a very important fact which the cheenis are cognizant about. So they probably don't want a disintegrated India but they definitely want a very weak India.
Absolutely BS, most Chinese you have seen are idiots.
India is FAR away from Chinese doorstep. Consider this : How much illegal immigration happens from India to China? I will say close to zero. India and China are separated in so many ways that it is not even funny. For a reference compare India-Pakistan illegal immigration and India-Bangladesh. Both sides have significant number of people living illegally among their countries.
1. There is absolutely NO common crossable border between India and China. Himalaya forms such a formidable barrier that even in best of times to go from India to China, the path is extremely hard and it makes more sense to just take a flight. Compare this to India-Pakistan and again India-Bangladesh.
2. India and China (all its legal and illegal controlled areas) have such a vast difference in people to people relations that there is no way any Indian can survive anywhere in China.
3. In case of a conflict or disassociation of India, people will move more towards south than north. Why? Because most of the fighting will be located in north.
Wow....so many thoughts, speculations and educated guesses... amidst all this ..one thing is very clear that china want to be sole superpower of Asia and they don't want a vocal and assertive india... So I think they can be fine with anything whether it's economically and militarally strong india but with meek leader and foreign policy...one which is always ready to toe China's line and fine with becoming China's junior partner...this can be achieved by ascending a leader of his choice to power...2. a weak or broken or combination of both india which has no ability in any way to challange China's power,dominance and monopoly in Asia in any way.
Doesn't happen now but a divided India with 100s of small states fighting each other and being ravaged by climate change will send people across all directions. Even now there's thousands of Indians in China (unfortunately). And you didnt address my nuke issue. We have nukes, like hundreds of it, we have the plutonium to make thousands. We have rhe delivery systsms to deliver them almost anywhere. What will happen to it if India disintegrates? There wont be a state like Russia to take control of them. Cheenis know this very well.
Which is why they don't necessarily want disintegration of India. They want a weak India. And as much as we cope Tibet is Chinese territory rn, this makes India right on their doorstep.
Errr... China has the most excellent mechanism to deal with it. It is called Pakistan. China will fight India till the last Pakistani. And it will let Pakistan absorb all the Indian nukes.
BTW, even in Russia, Russian nukes missiles are a lot more in disarray due to lack of maintenance. In case of dissolution of India, Indian missiles will have worse fate than that because there will be zero maintenance. In absence of maintenance, all those missiles will simply deterioratate. Not to mention, almost all of the Indian nukes need a supply for tritium to keep them alive. You cut off tritium, you cut off nukes. And China will work with resulting states to buy those nukes and plutonium just like USA did with few post soviet states. Nukes are a manageable mess. It has been done before and can be done again.
Nukes need tritium refueling every few years. And those are hydrogen or boosted fission ones. Not the standard nukes of which we have plenty. And our nukes are spread out. How exactly will Pakistan absorb them? We don't have a Russia like super state which can inhereit all of the nukes and missiles and jets. You don't understand how much different this is from USSR collapsing. Many Indian nuclear weapons production facilities are deep in the south, thousands of km away from China and Pakistan. We don't even have ducking silos, our nukes are on mobile platforms, and they're hidden away inside mountains (my own relative who was in strategic forces said so). Which means China has 0 idea where our nukes are, I'm sure even USA has no clue. Thoese small little states will have 0 clue as well obviously. You don't understand what kind of a clusterfuck of a situation it's gonna be if India collapses.
We're not even discussing the fact of what would happen to the 4th largest military in the world. Essentially, China will have 100s of small states with nukes all fighting each other for scraps. A nuclear Africa right on their doorstep.
China wants a weak India, not a disintegrated one.
Pékin mobilise ses attachés de défense à l’étranger pour tirer profit des attaques informationnelles visant le Rafale
Beijing mobilises its defence attachés abroad to capitalise on information attacks targeting the Rafale
During Operation Sindoor, carried out by India to destroy positions held by terrorist organisations in Pakistan, Islamabad claimed to have shot down six Indian fighter jets, including three Rafales, using its Chengdu J-10s armed with PL-15 long-range air-to-air missiles supplied by China. And it did so without providing any evidence... Nevertheless, Dassault Aviation's fighter-bomber was then the target of a massive information attack.
That said, the Pakistani military did not necessarily seek to question the qualities of the Rafale, given that several of Pakistan's ‘friendly’ countries have chosen this aircraft to modernise their air forces. Its intention was mainly to suggest that Indian pilots were not up to scratch... unlike its own. ‘It is a very powerful aircraft, provided it is used properly,’ said General Aurangzeb Ahmed, spokesman for the Pakistani Air Force.
For its part, the Indian Air Force (IAF) unofficially admitted that it had lost three fighter jets. One of these was most likely a Rafale. Nevertheless, it achieved the objectives set for it during Operation Sindoor.
"Beyond the losses, the Indian operation must be assessed in terms of its scale and complexity [...] The mere fact that the IAF was able to strike targets despite Pakistan's air defences and carry out subsequent attacks demonstrates its ability to conduct precision coercive operations," summarised the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) in a note published on 21 May.
However, via thousands of social media accounts, images created by artificial intelligence and footage taken from video games, the campaign to denigrate the Rafale continued thereafter... and it continues today, with China, as might be expected, pulling the strings.
According to the Associated Press, which cites a French intelligence service [which the agency did not specify], Chinese embassy defence attachés were mobilised to exploit these information attacks against the Rafale, in particular to try to convince countries that had already ordered the aircraft, such as Indonesia, not to buy any more, and to encourage other potential buyers to choose Chinese-designed aircraft.
Of course, Beijing has denied the Associated Press's reports. ‘These allegations are pure rumours and slander. China has always taken a cautious and responsible approach to military exports, playing a constructive role in regional and global peace and stability,’ the Chinese Ministry of Defence said.
After keeping quiet, the French authorities finally responded to these information attacks.
"The Rafale was not targeted at random. It is a particularly high-performance fighter jet, sold for export and engaged in a high-visibility theatre. In this type of configuration, the aircraft becomes as much a military vehicle as a political or economic symbol. As such, the disinformation campaign observed relied on networks favourable to the Rafale's industrial competitors. A number of foreign information ecosystems thus relayed narratives aimed at promoting the superiority of alternative equipment, particularly Chinese designs," the Ministry of the Armed Forces responded.
More broadly, the ministry believes that the Rafale is not the only target: this smear campaign also seeks to undermine ‘the national image of strategic autonomy, industrial reliability and strong partnerships.’
In the Senate on 1 July, the Minister of the Armed Forces, Sébastien Lecornu, set the record straight. "We have heard a lot of nonsense about the Rafale in the military operations between India and Pakistan. The real feedback we have from state to state and air force to air force is the demand to be able to quickly replenish ammunition stocks, particularly complex missiles, which is a decisive issue for certain manufacturers," he said.
Then, during his trip to Toulon for the commissioning of the Tourville submarine and the inauguration of the Missiessy No. 2 basin, Mr Lecornu hammered home the point in the pages of Var Matin.
During the clash between India and Pakistan, "only one [Rafale] aircraft was shot down and the pilot survived. This had no impact on the marketing of the aircraft. What is interesting is the information war that arose around the loss of the aircraft. Being able to sell fighter jets means playing in the big leagues. And in the big leagues, the level of competition is incredibly fierce," explained the minister.
He added: "The Rafale, which is currently enjoying great success in exports and will continue to do so, has been targeted because it is disruptive. Then again, I note that when an aircraft is shot down in Ukraine, whether it is American or Soviet, no one thinks of writing articles questioning the quality of that aircraft. That says a lot."
Beijing mobilises its defence attachés abroad to capitalise on information attacks targeting the Rafale
During Operation Sindoor, carried out by India to destroy positions held by terrorist organisations in Pakistan, Islamabad claimed to have shot down six Indian fighter jets, including three Rafales, using its Chengdu J-10s armed with PL-15 long-range air-to-air missiles supplied by China. And it did so without providing any evidence... Nevertheless, Dassault Aviation's fighter-bomber was then the target of a massive information attack.
That said, the Pakistani military did not necessarily seek to question the qualities of the Rafale, given that several of Pakistan's ‘friendly’ countries have chosen this aircraft to modernise their air forces. Its intention was mainly to suggest that Indian pilots were not up to scratch... unlike its own. ‘It is a very powerful aircraft, provided it is used properly,’ said General Aurangzeb Ahmed, spokesman for the Pakistani Air Force.
For its part, the Indian Air Force (IAF) unofficially admitted that it had lost three fighter jets. One of these was most likely a Rafale. Nevertheless, it achieved the objectives set for it during Operation Sindoor.
"Beyond the losses, the Indian operation must be assessed in terms of its scale and complexity [...] The mere fact that the IAF was able to strike targets despite Pakistan's air defences and carry out subsequent attacks demonstrates its ability to conduct precision coercive operations," summarised the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) in a note published on 21 May.
However, via thousands of social media accounts, images created by artificial intelligence and footage taken from video games, the campaign to denigrate the Rafale continued thereafter... and it continues today, with China, as might be expected, pulling the strings.
According to the Associated Press, which cites a French intelligence service [which the agency did not specify], Chinese embassy defence attachés were mobilised to exploit these information attacks against the Rafale, in particular to try to convince countries that had already ordered the aircraft, such as Indonesia, not to buy any more, and to encourage other potential buyers to choose Chinese-designed aircraft.
Of course, Beijing has denied the Associated Press's reports. ‘These allegations are pure rumours and slander. China has always taken a cautious and responsible approach to military exports, playing a constructive role in regional and global peace and stability,’ the Chinese Ministry of Defence said.
After keeping quiet, the French authorities finally responded to these information attacks.
"The Rafale was not targeted at random. It is a particularly high-performance fighter jet, sold for export and engaged in a high-visibility theatre. In this type of configuration, the aircraft becomes as much a military vehicle as a political or economic symbol. As such, the disinformation campaign observed relied on networks favourable to the Rafale's industrial competitors. A number of foreign information ecosystems thus relayed narratives aimed at promoting the superiority of alternative equipment, particularly Chinese designs," the Ministry of the Armed Forces responded.
More broadly, the ministry believes that the Rafale is not the only target: this smear campaign also seeks to undermine ‘the national image of strategic autonomy, industrial reliability and strong partnerships.’
In the Senate on 1 July, the Minister of the Armed Forces, Sébastien Lecornu, set the record straight. "We have heard a lot of nonsense about the Rafale in the military operations between India and Pakistan. The real feedback we have from state to state and air force to air force is the demand to be able to quickly replenish ammunition stocks, particularly complex missiles, which is a decisive issue for certain manufacturers," he said.
Then, during his trip to Toulon for the commissioning of the Tourville submarine and the inauguration of the Missiessy No. 2 basin, Mr Lecornu hammered home the point in the pages of Var Matin.
During the clash between India and Pakistan, "only one [Rafale] aircraft was shot down and the pilot survived. This had no impact on the marketing of the aircraft. What is interesting is the information war that arose around the loss of the aircraft. Being able to sell fighter jets means playing in the big leagues. And in the big leagues, the level of competition is incredibly fierce," explained the minister.
He added: "The Rafale, which is currently enjoying great success in exports and will continue to do so, has been targeted because it is disruptive. Then again, I note that when an aircraft is shot down in Ukraine, whether it is American or Soviet, no one thinks of writing articles questioning the quality of that aircraft. That says a lot."
Whatever US/ China/ other country wants, India is not gonna collapse as economic parameters are moving positive side, and should continue next 15-20 years. India's regionalism/ linguistic fault lines are miner and manageable. My only area of concern is religious fault lines where gaps are visibly increasing and is spread over whole country which may lead to civil unrest if catches the right trigger/s. In this case also I am not seeing disintegration of India, may be heavy losses on humans/ fiscal assets.
There is more possibility of spreading multi-country wars, and India find itself in-between.
There is more possibility of spreading multi-country wars, and India find itself in-between.
US/China ---- Both Supports congress party and wanted Modi out ..how does the US expect a economically good India with rahul gandhi at helm and modi out .
US/China -- Both funds militants in north east and want to destabilize India's north east .
US/China -- Both funds and support porkistan army against India ( Our Deputy army chief said we were fighting against 4 countries , the 4th one is definitely US )
US/China -- Both doesn't want a technologically advanced India ( US assassination of our scientist , sabotaging our space launch and China stopping resources to stop our manufacturing are few examples)
Since US/China can have tactical agreement when it comes to few topics like they had in the past ....i dont see any reason why they will not work together to bring congress back which is enough to achieve their agenda .
I think le francais government must start with spring cleaning their own house first.
Here's an article from France 24 quoting extensively from the Sino Paxtani playbook taking a dump on the Rafale.
Chinese weapons pass combat test in India-Pakistan clash – with flying colours
The recent military engagement over Kashmir by South Asia’s arch enemies saw India deploy its French and US weapons against Pakistan’s new range of sophisticated Chinese arms. In its first battlefield…
www.france24.com
Now France 24 is a news agency funded by le francais state focusing on international developments for an international audience giving them le francais perspective.
The irony is the journalist is an Indian rice bag who must've been chosen precisely for this reason apart from ideological alignment with those that run France 24.
Hubba Hubba Hubba! How do we have a plethora of people here who painstakingly assemble all the pieces of available evidence bit by bit & come to the wrong conclusion , is beyond me ?!
China plans to use the Congress to position India against the US or at best would want a neutral India. The US would want to use the Congress to ally with the US against China.
Both want the Congress . Both also want them to do their bidding. Both have different objectives in getting the Congress back to power. How then can they both collaborate with each other with mutually contradictory interests ?!
Hubba Hubba Hubba! You yourself says China wants congress and US wants congress and both China/US wants modi out ....how US/China manage congress is after they achieve their agenda ...for now their interest of bringing congress and outing Modi is aligned . Both big powers are smart enough to work together tactically if their objectives is aligned ....why is this difficult to understand is beyond me ?!
I think weakening india is only half of job which are same for both..but their final goal is to have a weak(wrt them) india and by their side or at worst neutral and meek(this is important) and this is where both are against each other and this is what matter. The End Goal !
I didn't say both China & the US want the Congress in power . You mentioned it. I was merely echoing your talking point which I agree with.
However what I disagree with is the fact both of them are acting in concert with each other which is nonsense.
Where the end goals of both are at opposite ends of the spectrum for you to suggest that they'd first get rid of Modi & get in the Congress without first getting a fix on the agenda translates to meaning you don't know how this works.
For context , the US got rid of the Shaikh Hasina Wajed government in BD. That was a slap on the face of China more than India for she gave the Chinese basing rights for their naval ships & submarines in a naval base constructed by the Chinese in Chattogram, where she refused to extend the same accomodation to the Americans.
As far as India goes while we weren't very happy with SHW but she represented the best of the worst on offer there as subsequent events proved. Since both India & China's interests were served with SHW at the helm are we to assume both of us had the same goals ?
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