Future Combat Air System (FCAS) - France/Germany

[Picdelamirand-oil]

We are waiting for the Germans to leave the SCAF program so that we can do it alone: Macron does not want to be the one to announce the end of cooperation because all of Europe will say that we cannot cooperate with the French if he is the one to say so. In any case, we will do the SCAF alone or with India if it finds it in its interest to do so. France does not oppose the sovereignty of its allies on principle, so everything is negotiable for us.

 

[randomradio]

View attachment 50104View attachment 50105View attachment 50106View attachment 50107View attachment 50108View attachment 50109View attachment 50110

Did some digging,.

Looking at these documents , maybe yeah 200tons

The Americans are screwing up with the B-21. I hope to see a heavy bomber after it enters prodction.

American possessed and proved those technologies way before given their programs using those techs are at more mature stage or even in operational usage.

The fact is they messed up long enough for the Europeans to catch up and the Chinese to take the lead.

Now the French are on par. The only difference is they had not developed new materials for a next gen engine, but started in 2021 and will have a functional engine even before the F-47 enters production.

Look at GCAP for example, their induction date is just 3 years later than F-47, and the Brits are slightly behind the French.

 

[babablacksheep]

Now the French are on par. The only difference is they had not developed new materials for a next gen engine, but started in 2021 and will have a functional engine even before the F-47 enters production.

Let's assume it as true.
That's still behind.
Having a functional next gen engine, before f47 enters production is not being on par.

and the Brits are slightly behind the French.

Source?

 

[randomradio]

Let's assume it as true.
That's still behind.
Having a functional next gen engine, before f47 enters production is not being on par.

The Americans don't have a functional engine today either. They are still producing their first protoype, started in 2025.

If the P2 deal is signed for engines, they will be only 3 years behind.

Source?

They don't have anything like the Neuron or the Rafale F5. They only have a single array radar called the ECRS Mk2 competing with the multi-array RBE2-XG. The French will also have a functioning MUMT on F5 with a new drone, operational in 2033. New fiber optic network to handle the massive data loads it's expected to handle. The Brits will get all this with Italian help via GCAP.

Right now, in the West, only the US and France are independent developers.

And while the Brits are gonna develop 6th gen tech under one program, the French are gonna do it across two programs.

There's another thing. The networking capabilities of GCAP will be inferior too. It will be similar to Rafale F5 while SCAF will be true next gen where it functions as a node for other assets. The Brits are derisking it as much as possible for a faster service introduction.

 

[babablacksheep]

The Americans don't have a functional engine today either. They are still producing their first protoype, started in 2025.

Key facts about the XA100 milestones:
World's First: The XA100 is the world's first flight-weight, three-stream adaptive cycle engine to run, with tests beginning in December 2020.
Testing Status: GE successfully completed multiple rounds of testing, including altitude testing, confirming the engine meets performance goals (25% better fuel efficiency, 10% more thrust).

They are now producing newer VCE prototypes for f47, because X100 is too powerful(200kn+) for the need of f47(156-178kn each engine)

If the P2 deal is signed for engines, they will be only 3 years behind.

America has a functional prototype, tested prototype, prototype that met all its performance goals.
They even offered xa100 for f35 update, turned down for cost reason.

They don't have anything like the Neuron or the Rafale F5. They only have a single array radar called the ECRS Mk2 competing with the multi-array RBE2-XG. The French will also have a functioning MUMT on F5 with a new drone, operational in 2033. New fiber optic network to handle the massive data loads it's expected to handle. The Brits will get all this with Italian help via GCAP.

Right now, in the West, only the US and France are independent developers.

And while the Brits are gonna develop 6th gen tech under one program, the French are gonna do it across two programs.

There's another thing. The networking capabilities of GCAP will be inferior too. It will be similar to Rafale F5 while SCAF will be true next gen where it functions as a node for other assets. The Brits are derisking it as much as possible for a faster service introduction.

BAE taranis.


Rafale F5, RBE2-xg are in development, with their prototype hasn't been shown or flown yet.

ERS-mk2 complete flight testing & is in IOC production phase.
**In January 2026, the UK Ministry of Defence awarded a £453 million contract to BAE Systems and Leonardo UK to begin manufacturing 38 serial-standard radars.**

The French will also have a functioning MUMT on F5 with a new drone,

*Will*
So far they have only shown basic cooperation of rafale with Neuron.

Right now, in the West, only the US and France are independent developers.

There's another thing. The networking capabilities of GCAP will be inferior too. It will be similar to Rafale F5 while SCAF will be true next gen where it functions as a node for other assets

GCAP is INTENDED to enter production in 2035.

FCAS intends in 2040.

The Brits are derisking it as much as possible for a faster service introduction.

 

[randomradio]

Key facts about the XA100 milestones:
World's First: The XA100 is the world's first flight-weight, three-stream adaptive cycle engine to run, with tests beginning in December 2020.
Testing Status: GE successfully completed multiple rounds of testing, including altitude testing, confirming the engine meets performance goals (25% better fuel efficiency, 10% more thrust).

They are now producing newer VCE prototypes for f47, because X100 is too powerful(200kn+) for the need of f47(156-178kn each engine)

The development of the NGAD VCE family goes back to the 90s, on the back of a similar but older VCE designed by GE called YF-120, which of course has its own history dating back to the 80s. So the history of VCE is quite old in the West, it's not new. Mig 1.44's AL-41F also used VCE.

Similarly France and Britain have also worked on VCEs, although they never left the lab. But it's because of this research that they are now capable of developing 6th gen engines.

America has a functional prototype, tested prototype, prototype that met all its performance goals.
They even offered xa100 for f35 update, turned down for cost reason.

XA-100 has never been flight tested. It's only undergone ground runs, so it's not there yet.

View attachment 50112
BAE taranis.

Forgot about this. I stand corrected. France and UK had planned to collaborate on a drone too.

Rafale F5, RBE2-xg are in development, with their prototype hasn't been shown or flown yet.

ERS-mk2 complete flight testing & is in IOC production phase.
**In January 2026, the UK Ministry of Defence awarded a £453 million contract to BAE Systems and Leonardo UK to begin manufacturing 38 serial-standard radars.**

Sure, ECRS Mk2 started earlier than RBE2, so it will be operational faster, but on an older jet using older federated integrated hardware. Everything else on the Rafale F5 is practically early 6th gen.

Anyway, post 42:

Post in thread 'The Rafale and what you know about it.'

Mar 29, 2024

Rafale without GaN is almost useless to India. The Chinese have been operating GaN radars on their fighters since 2016.

And we need the F5's MUMT as well. But if it's coming after 2035, it won't be part of MRFA.

A better option is to just buy Rafales in batches for a split between F4 and F5. I doubt that's possible with MRFA though.

You have a lot of misconceptions about the RBE2 XG: the end result will be a radar with a new architecture, GaN technology, a multi-channel receiver, multiple antennas (including side antennas) all around the aircraft that will be used for radar and...

• Picdelamirand-oil

• 

*Will*
So far they have only shown basic cooperation of rafale with Neuron.

Nobody has shown anything beyond pictures actually. The current goals are RPV, semi-autonomous (babysat by a fighter) and fully autonomous (independent, decision-maker in a HQ). S-70 is in the RPV stage today and hopefully we will see the French drone in the second stage in 2033.

GCAP is INTENDED to enter production in 2035.

FCAS intends in 2040.

That's not impressive for GCAP. Foundational technologies are absolutely critical. Let me explain why.

GCAP is being designed with FBW whereas AMCA will come with FBL (fly-by-light). This means both jets will be introduced at roughly the same time, but AMCA's network hardware will be a true generation ahead. There will be no electrical interfaces in AMCA for data unlike every other fighter jet in existence. It means both internal and external networking capabilities of AMCA will be true 6th gen. This will allow AMCA to seamlessly connect to every piece of hardware on the surface, in the air, and in space. FBL also directly improves sensor fusion to its greatest extent, FBW cannot. These are foundational. This allows the creation of a full scope global combat cloud. It means someone sitting in a bunker in South India can make decisions for an unmanned AMCA flying over Kashmir.

Last year an IAF officer said something of the sort, that future air warriors will be nerds in a bunker playing videogames or something.

Similarly, F-47 and SCAF, although not yet advertised, should also show up with FBL tech. GCAP can't do that, just like Rafale and F-35. But to get this capability, you need to build the jet from the outset with FBL. Or wait for MLU or modernize the jet midway. And looking at the Typhoon, it doesn't look like the Brits are gonna throw money at rebuilding the jet when they can start a new program instead.

So you can see that ADA is being far more ambitious than BAE, which is why GCAP is being derisked with simpler objectives, ie, Rafale F5 class of sensor fusion and networking. We derisked AMCA by keeping the airframe 5th gen. SCAF is unlikely to have either limitation (but India won't have access to core avionics).

 

[babablacksheep]

The development of the NGAD VCE family goes back to the 90s, on the back of a similar but older VCE designed by GE called YF-120, which of course has its own history dating back to the 80s. So the history of VCE is quite old in the West, it's not new. Mig 1.44's AL-41F also used VCE.

This VCE, provides 25% better fuel efficiency, 10% more thrust, over F135, in same size.

So its not same the as older jet engines with lower TET, overhaul time, service life etc but with VCE architecture.

Its a proper working and tested 6th gen engine.

XA-100 has never been flight tested. It's only undergone ground runs, so it's not there yet.

Its LOT more ahead of france's project.

Everything else on the Rafale F5 is practically early 6th gen.

Rafale F5 is still 4-5 years away at the earliest, ERS-mk2 is IOC ready now.
You highly exaggerated how ahead France actually is, comparing future projects with current ones.

Nobody has shown anything beyond pictures actually. The current goals are RPV, semi-autonomous (babysat by a fighter) and fully autonomous (independent, decision-maker in a HQ). S-70 is in the RPV stage today and hopefully we will see the French drone in the second stage in 2033.

Doesn't change the fact that your attempt to show how ahead France is over Britain using mumt,F5 as an example, programs which are still in development with even prototype not revealed over ers-mk2 which is in IOC stage now, is false equivalance, France maybe ahead but not as much as you exaggerate by using example of future in development programs which have yet to show results.

That's not impressive for GCAP. Foundational technologies are absolutely critical. Let me explain why.

ATLA has publicly stated that for the "Next-Generation Fighter" (now GCAP), Japan will leverage its unique experience in optical signal transmission to ensure "high-speed, large-capacity data processing" and "immunity to electromagnetic interference.

&

Analysts frequently point to Mitsubishi Electric’s experience with the Kawasaki P-1—the world's only production aircraft with a Fly-by-Light system—as the specific expertise being contributed to the G2E consortium.

 

[Bhartiya Naagrik Sainik]

We are already testing it in the air in India.

Any photo or video? A drawing, diagram will also do.
I don't think India has Area-51 like isolated area to hide any flight project.

India test morphing fighter jet wing tech in new DRDO breakthrough

India tests morphing fighter jet morphing-wing technology, as DRDO reveals a breakthrough to shape future combat aircraft.

aerospaceglobalnews.com

That's the article from where i took the **** pic, but like i said the articles are very superficial.

But yes, any attempt an aircraft with morphing wings will take us 15-20 years, but it's not due to the wings alone. We lack other foundational technologies that others already have.

Foundation tech like...?

Metamaterials in India:

India Unveils Groundbreaking 'Stealth Cloak' That Could Make IAF's Combat Fighters Nearly Invisible To Radars

By Air Marshal Anil Khosla (R) IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) recently unveiled the Anālakṣhya Project, a ground-breaking initiative to advance metamaterial surface cloaking technology. The project, led by researchers at IIT Kanpur, promises to enhance the strategic capabilities of the...

www.eurasiantimes.com

Let's put that in RAS+RAM category. We all know DRDO working on it.

Hypersonic is meant for very high altitude, which complicates air defense in terms of numbers and expenses. Right now, you only need 1-2 missiles against a sub/supersonic aircraft. But will need multiple very large missiles against hypersonic. Plus it gives the aircraft more time to evade. It's all about improving survivability.

It seems you didn't look at the turning radius pic i shared as reference, based on max G forces human can take.
It is not like SR-71 trying to evade SA-2.

After X-15 touched Mach 6.7, nothing happened.
Since 1990s we're hearing rumors of hypersonic jet operating from Area-51, like Aurora, XR-7, SR-91, etc.
If such a jet was really flying secretly then it would have made good sense.






But now by the time a hypersonic manned jet would be made, MW class lasers would be ready to shoot it down.

Naturally, a combination is necessary. Just like fighters and bombers. Essentially a smaller, lighter sub/supersonic 7th gen jet operating alongside a larger 7th gen jet. One is in the 25-40T category as usual, the other in the 100-150T category.

You're not really paying attention to details, components, aspects, performance of such a jet like size, payload, fuel, CAPEX, OPEX, numbers, etc.
40 tons MTOW is like today's heavy class fighter jets, not sufficient fuel & payload for hypersonic manned jet.
SR-71 empty weight 30 tons, gross weight 69tons, MTOW is 78 tons. And you wan't double that weight????

Mig-41 is expected to weigh 100T.

Tu-22 MTOW is 92 tons. Tu-22M gross weight 112 tons, MTOW 126 tons.
MiG-31 empty weight 22tons, gross weight 41 tons, MTOW 46 tons.
MiG-41 is quoted to be high supersonicMach 3-4, not hypersonic.
Articles on internet expect MiG-41 to have MTOW 40-55 tons. And you expect double of that.

 

[RationalGuy]

In terms of number of programs and maturity, the Americans are ahead. But in terms of possession of technologies, both countries are overall at par.

M88-4E was only surpassed by the F414 EDE a decade later. F135 is much newer and still not ready. The French have caught up with the F135 with the T-REX, at least in terms of TET, which is a bigger achievement due to its small size. We don't know the MTBO and reliability figures of either. Overall, they are on par here. The only difference is the Americans have a working demonstrator of a VCE while the French will start building one after the Phase 2 contract is signed with Germany. Then 3 years to build and start testing it.

But 1,000s of F135 have been made and flown with many operation and test hours, the thrust is also much higher than M88. BTW what is the source on M88 TET reaching F135? Regarding F135, Pratt and Whitney said it should have higher reliability than even American previous engines so it may as well reach nearly 10,000 hrs if not above which afaik M88 cannot match. Its tough to believe M88 can match F135 in any regard, I have never seen any official sources hinting this unless you can share some.

US is also ahead in radars and sensors and will be even more ahead as F47's stuff matures. France may have the capabilities but they are far and away behind the US which has flown multiple prototypes and in all likelihood start production of F47 and B21 way before FCAS flies even. The French simply cannot match the much more experienced and well funded US ecosystem. But India will never ever get F47, I'm quite sure US will make it non exportable like F22.

100 T interceptor? Do they have the capability to build engine for such aircraft? And if yeas, what will be the wet& dry thrust?

Its Russia not India.

 

[RationalGuy]

The development of the NGAD VCE family goes back to the 90s, on the back of a similar but older VCE designed by GE called YF-120, which of course has its own history dating back to the 80s. So the history of VCE is quite old in the West, it's not new. Mig 1.44's AL-41F also used VCE.

Similarly France and Britain have also worked on VCEs, although they never left the lab. But it's because of this research that they are now capable of developing 6th gen engines.



XA-100 has never been flight tested. It's only undergone ground runs, so it's not there yet.



Forgot about this. I stand corrected. France and UK had planned to collaborate on a drone too.



Sure, ECRS Mk2 started earlier than RBE2, so it will be operational faster, but on an older jet using older federated integrated hardware. Everything else on the Rafale F5 is practically early 6th gen.

Anyway, post 42:

Post in thread 'The Rafale and what you know about it.'

Mar 29, 2024

Rafale without GaN is almost useless to India. The Chinese have been operating GaN radars on their fighters since 2016.

And we need the F5's MUMT as well. But if it's coming after 2035, it won't be part of MRFA.

A better option is to just buy Rafales in batches for a split between F4 and F5. I doubt that's possible with MRFA though.

You have a lot of misconceptions about the RBE2 XG: the end result will be a radar with a new architecture, GaN technology, a multi-channel receiver, multiple antennas (including side antennas) all around the aircraft that will be used for radar and...

• Picdelamirand-oil

• 

Nobody has shown anything beyond pictures actually. The current goals are RPV, semi-autonomous (babysat by a fighter) and fully autonomous (independent, decision-maker in a HQ). S-70 is in the RPV stage today and hopefully we will see the French drone in the second stage in 2033.



That's not impressive for GCAP. Foundational technologies are absolutely critical. Let me explain why.

GCAP is being designed with FBW whereas AMCA will come with FBL (fly-by-light). This means both jets will be introduced at roughly the same time, but AMCA's network hardware will be a true generation ahead. There will be no electrical interfaces in AMCA for data unlike every other fighter jet in existence. It means both internal and external networking capabilities of AMCA will be true 6th gen. This will allow AMCA to seamlessly connect to every piece of hardware on the surface, in the air, and in space. FBL also directly improves sensor fusion to its greatest extent, FBW cannot. These are foundational. This allows the creation of a full scope global combat cloud. It means someone sitting in a bunker in South India can make decisions for an unmanned AMCA flying over Kashmir.

Last year an IAF officer said something of the sort, that future air warriors will be nerds in a bunker playing videogames or something.

Similarly, F-47 and SCAF, although not yet advertised, should also show up with FBL tech. GCAP can't do that, just like Rafale and F-35. But to get this capability, you need to build the jet from the outset with FBL. Or wait for MLU or modernize the jet midway. And looking at the Typhoon, it doesn't look like the Brits are gonna throw money at rebuilding the jet when they can start a new program instead.

So you can see that ADA is being far more ambitious than BAE, which is why GCAP is being derisked with simpler objectives, ie, Rafale F5 class of sensor fusion and networking. We derisked AMCA by keeping the airframe 5th gen. SCAF is unlikely to have either limitation (but India won't have access to core avionics).

AMCA will be FBL????*? Whaaaaaat. Where and how did you learn of this?

 

[Rajput Lion]

But 1,000s of F135 have been made and flown with many operation and test hours, the thrust is also much higher than M88. BTW what is the source on M88 TET reaching F135? Regarding F135, Pratt and Whitney said it should have higher reliability than even American previous engines so it may as well reach nearly 10,000 hrs if not above which afaik M88 cannot match. Its tough to believe M88 can match F135 in any regard, I have never seen any official sources hinting this unless you can share some.

US is also ahead in radars and sensors and will be even more ahead as F47's stuff matures. France may have the capabilities but they are far and away behind the US which has flown multiple prototypes and in all likelihood start production of F47 and B21 way before FCAS flies even. The French simply cannot match the much more experienced and well funded US ecosystem. But India will never ever get F47, I'm quite sure US will make it non exportable like F22.

F-47 is designed for export unlike F-22. First customer might be Australia @Optimist

But yes, Uncle Sam is way ahead of France in literally every single aerospace sector. Their rival now only seems to be China in terms of cutting edge military tech.

Its Russia not India.

️️

 

[RationalGuy]

F-47 is designed for export unlike F-22. First customer might be Australia @Optimist

But yes, Uncle Sam is way ahead of France in literally every single aerospace sector. Their rival now only seems to be China in terms of cutting edge military tech.

️️

Unkill leaves the Chinks in the dust when it comes to engines and they ain't catching up anytime soon. F135 has such a capability its almost as if demigod built the things, almost 200 kN thrust at above 2000K TET AND MTBO in the high thousands at worst is absolutely crazy. We can only imagine what their next gen engines will be like. France matching any of this is highly questionable, one simply can't beat near infite budget and decades of experience. While France does have experience, the US has even more for 5th and 6th gen engines which cannot be disputed. To expect they can make the leap from 4.5 gen M88 to 6th gen and do it before America....frankly I cannot believe it.

Even in other aspects such as UAVs, AESA radars, sensor fusion, etc US has way more experience, Rafale is good but cannot match F35s radar and sensor fusion not to mention stealth and EW. I would say even China is currently ahead of France in radars most definitely.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Unkill leaves the Chinks in the dust when it comes to engines and they ain't catching up anytime soon. F135 has such a capability its almost as if demigod built the things, almost 200 kN thrust at above 2000K TET AND MTBO in the high thousands at worst is absolutely crazy. We can only imagine what their next gen engines will be like.

Absolutely agree. The next gen VCE engines are going to be absolutely game-changing and will define future 6th gen fighters. And F135 with all that impressive specs isn't good enough for F-35 Block 4, thus getting ECU updates which shall further improve its performance, efficiency and electrical power generation, lol.

France matching any of this is highly questionable, one simply can't beat near infite budget and decades of experience. While France does have experience, the US has even more for 5th and 6th gen engines which cannot be disputed. To expect they can make the leap from 4.5 gen M88 to 6th gen and do it before America....frankly I cannot believe it.

Let me tell you a thing. LCA with F404 has better throttle response than M88. This is impression of IAF fighter pilots. Even UK with EJ200 is better than M-88. So while France is good, US is simply in a league of its own.

Even in other aspects such as UAVs, AESA radars, sensor fusion, etc US has way more experience, Rafale is good but cannot match F35s radar and sensor fusion not to mention stealth and EW.

Even French classified report mentioned that Rafale can't match F-35's stealth and sensor fusion.

I would say even China is currently ahead of France in radars most definitely.

China is already fielding GaN based AESA radars in J-20A variant while APG-85 is still delayed. France? Rafale F5 will get GaN AESA radar only in 2030s. Forget about US and China, even India is now ahead of France in GaN semiconductor tech.

Under Modi, we have made unbelievable transition into being a radar superpower.

 

[Rajput Lion]

It's only happening between two companies, it's quite common. It means nothing without an official RFP.

Yes, but both are official gov organisations of India and Russia and don't get involved in random conversations for whims until given clear directive by GOI and Russian gov.

We are not getting know-how and know-why of 177, only license production. We are getting it from France 'cause we are actually paying lots of money for it.

FGFA was cancelled because Russians were playing with us. Not this time around. It won't be repeat of MKI model rather much much more than that.

We don't care about the Russian prices, it's Russia itself that's becoming untenable.

Not for us. Not only Su-57 or additional S-400s, we will also procure S-500s in future. Our defence cooperation with Russia will continue despite US pressure.

 

[babablacksheep]

AMCA will be FBL????*? Whaaaaaat. Where and how did you learn of this?

While the current f35 doesn't have fly-by-light for its flight systems.
But for its data system's F-35 mainly utilizes fiber optic cables( i.e. data-by-light, for faster data processing than possible by copper wires).


Plus, in 6th gen, its not actual fly-by-light, that's main part, its the data processing boost that fiber optical cables provide, even if data to flight control systems were to reach fast, their mechanical reaction time will still be in the same league as current, though redundancy will increase.

 

[RISING SUN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2028711749508268529

 

[randomradio]

This VCE, provides 25% better fuel efficiency, 10% more thrust, over F135, in same size.

So its not same the as older jet engines with lower TET, overhaul time, service life etc but with VCE architecture.

Its a proper working and tested 6th gen engine.

Yeah, a new engine would have better features than an old engine, but it's still a foundational technology.

Its LOT more ahead of france's project.

Not much, since there's a 3-5-year difference for a technology that takes 20-30 years to develop.

Let me give you an analogy. An Indian father just had a kid and he dreams of the kid earning a PhD in physics. The American kid is already 2 years away from getting a doctorate in physics having just finished his course work and the French kid is waiting to enter a PhD program, which will happen any moment now. That's how much of a difference there is.

The Americans are not "way ahead." The difference is just a program start away. Not like India.

Rafale F5 is still 4-5 years away at the earliest, ERS-mk2 is IOC ready now.
You highly exaggerated how ahead France actually is, comparing future projects with current ones.

ECRS Mk2 is just a radar. F5 is a full avionics development program. They are absolutely not the same. F5 will see a whole new rebuild of its internals along with a new engine.

France Announces Development of Rafale F5 With New UCAV And Nuclear Missile

The new UCAV that will complement the Rafale F5 will benefit from the achievements of the nEUROn program. The development comes at a time of changes in

theaviationist.com

The Rafale F5, as per a report on Opex360, would be a very different aircraft compared to current standard Rafale F3R and F4 variants.
Another defining feature would be the ability to process “huge volumes of data,” which will require fiber optic cabling that current versions do not support, according to General Stéphane Mille, the AAE’s chief of staff.

Rafale F4/F5 Getting Closer to the Make in India Deal

A suspected leak from France’s Ministry of the Armed Forces a few days back suggests that India intends to procure 90 Rafale F4 multirole fighter aircraft, with an additional option for 24 next-gen…

airpowerasia.com

The Rafale F5 will also act as a sensor-truck with data fusion and processing abilities that allow it a tactical flying command post role, a role that is evolving in the United States’ Next Generation Air Dominance (NGAD) program.

Le Rafale F5 devra être interopérable avec le futur avion de combat conçu par le Royaume-Uni, l'Italie et le Japon - Zone Militaire

Pour le chef d'état-major de l'armée de l'Air & de l'Espace , le général Jérôme Bellanger, le point le plus important du projet de Système de combat

www.opex360.com

The Rafale's F5 standard will truly represent a technological breakthrough. "It will be a new aircraft in terms of connectivity and collaborative combat, among other things," General Bellanger emphasized. He added that it must therefore be capable of "operating in a cloud that we hope will be interoperable, particularly with the GCAP" developed by the United Kingdom, Italy, and Japan. "This is crucial for future generations [of fighter jets] and for the overall air superiority we seek with these countries," he argued.

Read this article to understand the basic gist of what all of the above translates into:

Rafale F5—The Next French Standard for a Connected Sky and Reminiscing on the Tomcat’s Origin Story

From Fleet Defense to Combat Cloud: the fighter’s job keeps shifting from pulling Gs to orchestrating information.

hangarflyingwithtog.com

Doesn't change the fact that your attempt to show how ahead France is over Britain using mumt,F5 as an example, programs which are still in development with even prototype not revealed over ers-mk2 which is in IOC stage now, is false equivalance, France maybe ahead but not as much as you exaggerate by using example of future in development programs which have yet to show results.

Look, America and France have active engine programs for 6th gen, but you still think that France is way ahead. But only America and France are actively developing 6th gen technologies for production right now, and Britain is not. When F5 comes out in 2030, the equivalent GCAP will be something like 2037 or later. So how on earth is Britain on par?

You refuse to agree that France is on par with America when there's a difference of just 3 years, but you are perfectly all right claiming Britain is on par with France even with a 7 or 8 year difference when the program is yet to deliver?

ATLA has publicly stated that for the "Next-Generation Fighter" (now GCAP), Japan will leverage its unique experience in optical signal transmission to ensure "high-speed, large-capacity data processing" and "immunity to electromagnetic interference.

&

Analysts frequently point to Mitsubishi Electric’s experience with the Kawasaki P-1—the world's only production aircraft with a Fly-by-Light system—as the specific expertise being contributed to the G2E consortium.

Japan planned to develop FBL for F-X. But once they entered GCAP, their share reduced to just the information system, whereas the flight controls will be developed by the British or Italians using copper wire instead of fiber optics.

So just like F-22 MLU, F-35, and Rafale F5, the GCAP will have FBW for flight controls and OFC for data. You are just backing the point I made. If you've read the link I posted, it should give you the context of where the Japanese participation lies in.

AMCA will have OFC for flight controls and data. And right now we are only assuming the F-47 and SCAF will also use FBL, since it's logical, there's no official news yet.

 

[randomradio]

Any photo or video? A drawing, diagram will also do.
I don't think India has Area-51 like isolated area to hide any flight project.

Yes, we do. It's in Chitradurga. An IAF base being developed for this is Sulur. The ground test base is in Bangalore.

That's the article from where i took the **** pic, but like i said the articles are very superficial.

The source is CSIR-NAL and DRDO, not an article.

Foundation tech like...?

Engine, TVC, and flight controls for tailless high-performance designs. That's why AMCA is a tailed design.

As I told you a few years ago, we are gonna develop foundational technologies through drones. The next evolution after Ghatak is to use AMCA's engine to develop a next generation of high performance drones by 2040, which will give us the foundational technologies required for future unmanned large-body fighter drones to replace manned fighters. ADE recently announced they will begin a new drone development in 2030 using AMCA's engine. So the next evolution for 2050s will be twin-engine drones using VCE that will replace manned fighters. What you call AHCA.

Let's put that in RAS+RAM category. We all know DRDO working on it.
View attachment 50119

Not exactly RAM/RAS, it has a very different function, but it will be connected to a surface using RAM/RAS, so okay.
Its job is to deflect light into absorbptive surfaces or to achieve pass through, so it does the opposite of RAM/RAS.

It seems you didn't look at the turning radius pic i shared as reference, based on max G forces human can take.
It is not like SR-71 trying to evade SA-2.

After X-15 touched Mach 6.7, nothing happened.
Since 1990s we're hearing rumors of hypersonic jet operating from Area-51, like Aurora, XR-7, SR-91, etc.
If such a jet was really flying secretly then it would have made good sense.


View attachment 50128



But now by the time a hypersonic manned jet would be made, MW class lasers would be ready to shoot it down.

View attachment 50127

High-speed black programs from the 50s and 60s were later canceled because they were unnecessary. The Americans even had programs for space-going aircraft at the time, so did the Soviets. But the supowerpowers collectively decided to not use space. That also led to the ABM Treaty. It was a choice.

MW laser can't do sh!t at such heights and ranges.

You're not really paying attention to details, components, aspects, performance of such a jet like size, payload, fuel, CAPEX, OPEX, numbers, etc.
40 tons MTOW is like today's heavy class fighter jets, not sufficient fuel & payload for hypersonic manned jet.
SR-71 empty weight 30 tons, gross weight 69tons, MTOW is 78 tons. And you wan't double that weight????

The heck are you talking about? It's within normal parameters for a near-space fighter/interceptor. You can make a smaller aircraft too, like the RLV, but it will have limited on-station time. Even that can be developed, but its utility will be lower for the interception mission.

Tu-22 MTOW is 92 tons. Tu-22M gross weight 112 tons, MTOW 126 tons.
MiG-31 empty weight 22tons, gross weight 41 tons, MTOW 46 tons.
MiG-41 is quoted to be high supersonicMach 3-4, not hypersonic.
Articles on internet expect MiG-41 to have MTOW 40-55 tons. And you expect double of that.

View attachment 50132

55T is too low for double speed, double range, and double altitude compared to the Mig-31.

Old estimates of achieving the same using a Mig-31-sized airframe have been unrealistic.

SR-71 is wide and gives 5000 km range, Mig-41 has to surpass that while carrying weapons internally while also being more agile.

We are slowly entering the era of hyper massive aircraft operating out of space. A high supersonic near-space fighter is a stepping stone for that.

 

[randomradio]

But 1,000s of F135 have been made and flown with many operation and test hours, the thrust is also much higher than M88. BTW what is the source on M88 TET reaching F135? Regarding F135, Pratt and Whitney said it should have higher reliability than even American previous engines so it may as well reach nearly 10,000 hrs if not above which afaik M88 cannot match. Its tough to believe M88 can match F135 in any regard, I have never seen any official sources hinting this unless you can share some.

T-REX achieved 2100K, that's 3300F compared to F135's ~3400F. M88-4E's service life is 8000 hours, and it's a decade older than the F135.

US is also ahead in radars and sensors and will be even more ahead as F47's stuff matures. France may have the capabilities but they are far and away behind the US which has flown multiple prototypes and in all likelihood start production of F47 and B21 way before FCAS flies even. The French simply cannot match the much more experienced and well funded US ecosystem. But India will never ever get F47, I'm quite sure US will make it non exportable like F22.

No, the French are ahead. Rafale's GaAs TRM is more advanced than the F-35's. Let's hold out on comparing the GaN for now, both could be similar. French IR sensors are also better, Americans just use licensed Israeli stuff here. Rafale's sensor fusion is older and less capable, but the F-35's doesn't work.

On paper, the Americans are better, but nothing works. B4 has been delayed to 2031 now. Their new F-35s were delivered without a radar too, so forget about working or not, it doesn't even exist yet.

U.S. Delivers F-35 Lightning II Without AN/APG-85 Radar: $2 Trillion Stealth Program Faces Electromagnetic Warfare Setback - Defence Security Asia

U.S. delivers F-35 jets without APG-85 radar as integration delays raise concerns over electromagnetic dominance, stealth geometry, and Indo-Pacific readiness.

defencesecurityasia.com

 

[randomradio]

AMCA will be FBL????*? Whaaaaaat. Where and how did you learn of this?

It's public, been known for years. The new design was cleared last year.