India vs China - War Gaming Scenarios : Related News , Updates , Discussions & Analysis .

I will have some implications within CCP.
-Let's assume that CCP, Xi could do it all without harming them in public ( lack of proof).
-We may also assume, that Then comes state machinery.. while efficient, it's still not too smaller than our own state machinery. Every documentation etc.. leaves paper and human trail. What if someone connects it to the top.
When the people involved in supposed "execution" do not find their services being needed.
- CCP is a organisms in itself. There are far too many people with own interests and power. There will certainly be a faction that will be kept out of it, but eventually grasp something.. surely CCP members are smart and cunning.

And if whole politburo is involved... Then only under one circumstances they can pull it off... No threat of foreign spies whatsoever.

Let me try to evolve this scenario:
1. Like any good lie, there is some truth mixed in. Some purges were in fact real to weed out the corrupt, untrustworthy or unwilling.
2. The total number in the "know" is still relatively small -- mostly the CMC, the top members of the central committee and PSC.
3. There is zero disagreement inside China about taking over Taiwan. Even an Indian opposition leader will keep his mouth shut upon discovering Modi's secret plans to take out ISI.
4. The threat of foreign spies exist but they would need to have credible proof -- I myself don't believe this theory, so I imagine foreign governments would want to see overwhelming proof.

Here are some rebuttals the AI gave me:
1. A "purged" general returning would cause confusion, because the whole chain of authority would be thrown into chaos.
2. Using purges as a tactic to "Make a sound in the east, then strike in the west" will backfire since most foreign analysts see Xi tightening control as more alarming.
3. Deception is not free. To fake a broken arm convincingly, you still have to put your arm in a cast — and then you can’t lift weights.
4. If the goal is to "use purges to create an image of PLA dysfunction to reduce deterrence", China has much cleaner levers that are more in-line with PLA culture:
  • massive drills that look routine
  • mobilization disguised as disaster response
  • logistics stockpiles hidden inside industrial policy
  • cyber prepositioning
  • coast guard + maritime militia normalization
  • political messaging ambiguity
 
Replying in this thread as it was off-topic in Iran war thread:
I'm going by what's in the public domain. Beyond that my guess is as good as yours.
;)
Acted slow is being charitable. Most of what we're witnessing unfold except the drone warfare part was something I hinted at before & after the war in Ukraine broke out.
We have discussed this before. Not only this government has done stellar work in enhancing our drone warfare but their most impressive work has been the expansion of our integrated air-defence network. That is going to be our biggest wall against any Chinese invasion.
Here I'm referring especially to the missile barrages unleashed by Russia in Ukraine as well as Iran in the ME as well as the air power brought to bear by Israel & the US .

Make the necessary replacements in the above matrix with India & China & do let me know how are we going to counter Chinese air power, their missile barrages & drone warfare.
We are develolping an anti-stealth grid which is designed to take down something like a B-2 bomber, forget about J-20. Chinese missiles, drones and jets are going to meet the wall of our super networked(backed by AI) and advance IADS which they'll find unable to properly penetrate.

Do you really think that IAF hasn't war gamed the scenario in which Chinese missiles render our air-bases ineffective? They have and that's why there is an urgency for super-long and smooth expressways all across the North-East.
In addition please also consider the inventories they hold as well as their production capacities in peace & war time. Compare it to ours & do let us know how do you propose we stop it .
What about targeting their factories and stores with our BMs and BrahMos-A ER(800kms variant)?
Mind you they've a lot up their sleeves viz space based ISR, cyber capabilities, networked IADS & BMD, etc .
We also have all the above and then some;)
Now while India's no Ukraine or Iran, China's definitely China . Besides if you're actually comparing this government to the previous one, where hardly any decisions were taken it's a very low bar .

Moreover in St Antony's case he didn't know whom to trust since South Block was crawling with dalals, he took the path of least resistance & opted not to take any decision whatsoever .

The logjam over the MMRCA tender is a good case in point wherein Dassault backed away from signing the deal.

In spite of all this, corruption continued as the Agusta Westland deal & later the Pilatus deal was exposed . There were others as well which weren't quite highlighted.
Yes, this government has been late in procuring 114 Rafales and Su-57MKIs. But they have woken up now after last year's skirmish and all these programmes are on track now. Besides, this government has done impressive work in development of our indigenous MIC along with roping in more and more private sector players. Also, the work BRO has done in remote and harsh places under this government is nothing but astounding. There is much more but I think these points should suffice.
 
Replying in this thread as it was off-topic in Iran war thread:


We have discussed this before. Not only this government has done stellar work in enhancing our drone warfare but their most impressive work has been the expansion of our integrated air-defence network. That is going to be our biggest wall against any Chinese invasion.
I wasn't referring to drone warfare where no doubt this government & the armed forces have done a stellar job including the IACCS.

But all this was little known / largely unknown when this thread was created barely a year after the war in Ukraine & the discussions we had before the war in Ukraine began.

That was my larger point.
We are develolping an anti-stealth grid which is designed to take down something like a B-2 bomber, forget about J-20. Chinese missiles, drones and jets are going to meet the wall of our super networked(backed by AI) and advance IADS which they'll find unable to properly penetrate.
Amen to the thought !
Do you really think that IAF hasn't war gamed the scenario in which Chinese missiles render our air-bases ineffective? They have and that's why there is an urgency for super-long and smooth expressways all across the North-East.
Let me confess I'm not exactly confident of the IAF , it's capabilities , doctrines & thought process nor am I a fan of it.

Let's leave it at that.
What about targeting their factories and stores with our BMs and BrahMos-A ER(800kms variant)?
And where in Tibet & Xinjiang do see those factories ?
We also have all the above and then some;)

Yes, this government has been late in procuring 114 Rafales and Su-57MKIs. But they have woken up now after last year's skirmish and all these programmes are on track now.
Too little , too late !
Besides, this government has done impressive work in development of our indigenous MIC along with roping in more and more private sector players.
Partially agree but it's mostly WiP - Work in Progress.
Also, the work BRO has done in remote and harsh places under this government is nothing but astounding.
Agreed .
There is much more but I think these points should suffice.
 
The Americans are investing billions in boost AMD coverage around Guam. But they not sure whether it'd hold up against sustained PLA attacks.
The entire Pacific is full of island chains. That's how the US prevailed over Japan . By island hopping.
Imo, the IAF has taken a pragmatic approach.
Frankly I don't know if they had any better solutions . For example if they were to use the insides of mountain caves as hangars the path in front of those mountains would have to be paved to serve as a runaway - a huge giveaway in times of a war .

Besides if the Chinese strike the sides of the mountain & cause a landslide or avalanche those caves will be sealed.
In any case, once the tri-service theatre commands are set up, we should see a consolidation/rationalization of military bases and facilities around the country.
Yeah well , we've been hearing about it since 2019 at least. The war is expected to come in 2030 give or take.
Once asset allocation is decided, additional investments in ISR, IADS, EW, cyber + infra hardening will likely follow.

Key IACCS and joint logistics nodes reportedly already operate out of hardened facilities. But not much is known about them.

Yet, The USMC is pivoting to the same rapid dispersal tactics in 2026 to fight the PLA in the Pacific.
Fighting from islands is a whole different ballgame from fighting from the mainland. The USMC is an expeditionary force . I doubt their air complement will go up against the Chinese.
Btw, they've already given up their 70+ ton Abrams MBTs and AV-8B Harriers for lighter JLTV/ATV type vehicles whuch will be used for everything from AD/EW/CUAS + F-35B, et all.
Don't think this matters much from the perspective of the USMC going up against the Chinese. These platforms you're referring to won't come into play. Or that's the way I see it.
 
The entire Pacific is full of island chains. That's how the US prevailed over Japan . By island hopping.

Aka rapid dispersal.

Frankly I don't know if they had any better solutions . For example if they were to use the insides of mountain caves as hangars the path in front of those mountains would have to be paved to serve as a runaway - a huge giveaway in times of a war .

Rapid dispersal creates multiple targets for the opponent's ISR to locate, ID and attack.

Also requires more sorties, payload and BDA to fix. This exponentially increases opportunities for DCA,OCA ops for the defending AF.

The IAF playbook against the PLA will be to deter/contain rather than attack. Atleast for the foreseeable future. That said, frontline ABs across EAC, CAC and WAC do need to be hardened as much as possible.

Yeah well , we've been hearing about it since 2019 at least. The war is expected to come in 2030 give or take.

May 2026 is D-day/month if recent reports are to be believed.

The USMC is an expeditionary force . I doubt their air complement will go up against the Chinese.

They are like skirmishers sent to engage the enemy before the main force arrives.

USMC armour and aviation has always operated close to the FEBA, directly supporting troops on the ground - more so than the US Army. Against the Chinese, they will be expected to hold island territories in the Pacific.

Don't think this matters much from the perspective of the USMC going up against the Chinese. These platforms you're referring to won't come into play. Or that's the way I see it.
That is why they've been adapting JLTV to fire Kongsberg NSM et al.

Don't think this matters much from the perspective of the USMC going up against the Chinese. These platforms you're referring to won't come into play. Or that's the way I see it.
 
Aka rapid dispersal.
Once again you're not getting what I conveyed. The issue isn't in rapid dispersal though on islands in oceans what else can you expect ? The issue is how do you stay undetected .
Rapid dispersal creates multiple targets for the opponent's ISR to locate, ID and attack.

Also requires more sorties, payload and BDA to fix. This exponentially increases opportunities for DCA,OCA ops for the defending AF.

The IAF playbook against the PLA will be to deter/contain rather than attack. Atleast for the foreseeable future.
Defence will follow if they survive the onslaught. I'm not very confident they will particularly if you were to consider our numbers vs what China's going to field .

Once again the main thrust of the PLAAF won't come from Tibet or / & Xinjiang . It'd come from Chengdu & Yunnan. Doesn't mean the former won't come into play just that the bulk of the attacks we're facing will come from deeper within the hinterland.

And just to reiterate we lack the tools or at least tools in numbers to hit them there .

That said, frontline ABs across EAC, CAC and WAC do need to be hardened as much as possible.
Agreed.
May 2026 is D-day/month if recent reports are to be believed.
Seeing is believing.
They are like skirmishers sent to engage the enemy before the main force arrives.
Applicable against lesser opponents not peer competitors.
USMC armour and aviation has always operated close to the FEBA, directly supporting troops on the ground - more so than the US Army.
Taiwan is going to be an air sea campaign to be waged by the USAF & USN . If the Chinese manage a foothold on Taiwan its the beginning of the end for the Allies.

What scope do you see for an expeditionary force here ? USMC or any other ?
Against the Chinese, they will be expected to hold island territories in the Pacific.
That's a defensive role.
That is why they've been adapting JLTV to fire Kongsberg NSM et al.
Irrelevant to the discussion. If the Chinese manage to break through the first island chain the allies will be on the defensive . That's not a good sign at all.

For the Allies to win this one Pyrrhic victory or not this conflict must begin & end within the first island chain.

Anything else will be disastrous for the Allies.
 
Once again the main thrust of the PLAAF won't come from Tibet or / & Xinjiang . It'd come from Chengdu & Yunnan. Doesn't mean the former won't come into play just that the bulk of the attacks we're facing will come from deeper within the hinterland.
As I told you earlier, Su-30MKI with BrahMos-ER that will have 800kms range is being prepped to attack Chinese hinterland and their factories in Chengdu & Yunnan. We also have plethora of Ballistic & Quasi Ballistic missiles with very very good CEP that would pound their MIC.

I think you are underestimating our war prowess. Let me drag your old friend in this discussion;)

@randomradio
Your thoughts on the above?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shan
Once again you're not getting what I conveyed. The issue isn't in rapid dispersal though on islands in oceans what else can you expect ? The issue is how do you stay undetected .

In the USMC context, they plan to use rapid dispersal ops to operate within Chinese A2/AD zones i.e Philippines, Taiwan, Japan, etc.

The idea behind replacing heavy armour and arty with JLTV/ATV/ACV type vehicles is to reduce the logistics footprint and deployment times.

Defence will follow if they survive the onslaught. I'm not very confident they will particularly if you were to consider our numbers vs what China's going to field .

Once again the main thrust of the PLAAF won't come from Tibet or / & Xinjiang . It'd come from Chengdu & Yunnan. Doesn't mean the former won't come into play just that the bulk of the attacks we're facing will come from deeper within the hinterland.

The IAF has built redundancy into its conops from the ground up. For ex, we have a mix of road, rail and air transportable launchers for strategic and tactical BMs.

In the near future, these will likely be supplemented by silo-based A6 et all.

The IAFs ALG concept can theoretically be extended to other pre-surveyed areas, highways or roads to escape detection and still be able to operate close to the LAC.

Applicable against lesser opponents not peer competitors.

Explained above.

Taiwan is going to be an air sea campaign to be waged by the USAF & USN . If the Chinese manage a foothold on Taiwan its the beginning of the end for the Allies.

What scope do you see for an expeditionary force here ? USMC or any other ?

Imo, the USMCs job would be stall PLA ampibh landing ops via guerrilla/slash and run tactics while calling in precise air/missile strikes to take out/disable support elements at the rear.

Irrelevant to the discussion. If the Chinese manage to break through the first island chain the allies will be on the defensive . That's not a good sign at all.

The Japs did exactly that at Iwo Jima in WW2. Draw them in, interdict enemy supply lines and go for the kill. Although, fate wasn't on their side.
[
 
Last edited:
As I told you earlier, Su-30MKI with BrahMos-ER that will have 800kms range is being prepped to attack Chinese hinterland and their factories in Chengdu & Yunnan.
There aren't many factories there . However Chengdu - Sichuan houses the WTC. Most of their factories are based on the Eastern & Southern Coasts for which we require 3-4000 kms range BMs & CMs as I've reiterated plenty of times in the past .

We also have plethora of Ballistic & Quasi Ballistic missiles with very very good CEP that would pound their MIC.
We need them in the thousands plus wartime production capacities which in the event didn't deter both Israel & the US in Iran's case but that's a different matter .
I think you are underestimating our war prowess. Let me drag your old friend in this discussion;)

@randomradio
Your thoughts on the above?
Not underestimating our war waging prowess neither overestimating it .

Keep things grounded & would prefer to have it the same way for further discussions.
 
In the USMC context, they plan to use rapid dispersal ops to operate within Chinese A2/AD zones i.e Philippines, Taiwan, Japan, etc.

The idea behind replacing heavy armour and arty with JLTV/ATV/ACV type vehicles is to reduce the logistics footprint and deployment times.
You're conflating two different things . I was referring to rapid dispersal of air assets. USMC isn't geared up to fight a peer like China hence isn't equipped with those kind of air assets.

That's the job of the USAF & USN .
The IAF has built redundancy into its conops from the ground up. For ex, we have a mix of road, rail and air transportable launchers for strategic and tactical BMs.
We need TBMs & CMs in huge numbers plus wartime production capacities as I've stated in the previous post & have been reiterating since 2020-21 like a stuck record particularly after the war in Ukraine broke out with Russia subjecting Ukraine to barrages of TBMs & CMs . Do you see any signs of that happening ?
In the near future, these will likely be supplemented by silo-based A6 et all.
A6 is for strategic usage.
The IAFs ALG concept can theoretically be extended to other pre-surveyed areas, highways or roads to escape detection and still be able to operate close to the LAC.
Hope it works out .
Explained above.
My point remains.
Imo, the USMCs job would be stall PLA ampibh landing ops via guerrilla/slash and run tactics while calling in precise air/missile strikes to take out/disable support elements at the rear.
For that they need to be based in Taiwan not Japan or RoK or the Philippines . And the USMC moving assets there before war breaks out will be crossing of a major red line which'd likely provoke a war .

Once war breaks out it'd be well nigh impossible to get to Taiwan to base these assets though I'm sure the Allies would attempt the same.

For that to happen China would have to lose a substantial part of it's air & naval assets.
The Japs did exactly that at Iwo Jima in WW2. Draw them in, interdict enemy supply lines and go for the kill. Although, fate wasn't on their side.
[
By the time the battle of Iwo Jima occurred the Japanese were already on the verge of losing the war .

VE was a matter of time as the Russians & the allies were already in Germany surrounding it from all sides .

Iwo Jima was too late to make a difference even if the Japanese won which in the event they didn't.
 
As I told you earlier, Su-30MKI with BrahMos-ER that will have 800kms range is being prepped to attack Chinese hinterland and their factories in Chengdu & Yunnan. We also have plethora of Ballistic & Quasi Ballistic missiles with very very good CEP that would pound their MIC.

I think you are underestimating our war prowess. Let me drag your old friend in this discussion;)

@randomradio
Your thoughts on the above?

Yes. We are developing long range systems in three categories for cruise missiles; 500-800 km,1000-1500 km, and 1500-2500 km. We have developed/imported/deployed the 500+ km versions while developing the other two in-house, like LR-LACM and 1500 km versionof Brahmos. LR-LACM will then be further upgraded to meet the third tier. It's unclear if we will import or indigenously/jointly develop a stealth missile like JASSM-XR yet, but it will be the next step after LR-LACM.

We already have BMs at such ranges operational. The next step here is to build a large penetrator warhead mated to Agni V to get into underground Chinese bases., our MOP equivalent.

With that said, we need to further develop drones for large scale strike missions in depth areas if we are to reasonably sustain pressure in a long war, we currently lack this capacity. We will have to import in the interim.
 
Yes. We are developing long range systems in three categories for cruise missiles; 500-800 km,1000-1500 km, and 1500-2500 km. We have developed/imported/deployed the 500+ km versions while developing the other two in-house, like LR-LACM and 1500 km versionof Brahmos. LR-LACM will then be further upgraded to meet the third tier. It's unclear if we will import or indigenously/jointly develop a stealth missile like JASSM-XR yet, but it will be the next step after LR-LACM.

We already have BMs at such ranges operational. The next step here is to build a large penetrator warhead mated to Agni V to get into underground Chinese bases., our MOP equivalent.

With that said, we need to further develop drones for large scale strike missions in depth areas if we are to reasonably sustain pressure in a long war, we currently lack this capacity. We will have to import in the interim.
LRLACM will evolve into SCALP-EG type stealth cruise missile in the air launch version. That's the plan for now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: YoungWolf
You're conflating two different things . I was referring to rapid dispersal of air assets. USMC isn't geared up to fight a peer like China hence isn't equipped with those kind of air assets.

As I said before, the IAF is doubling down on ALGs and designated highways for rapid dispersal ops. The ALGs in the NE are no longer the austere dirt strips of the past but have been upgraded.

The USMC is essentially an extension of the USN except they have their own dedicated air and ground assets. They have been working on similar concepts like EABO which revolves around creating temp staging areas for air and ground units + smaller landing ships of the LST type.


Agreed. Although we may be taking a cue from the US' Prompt Conventional Strike prog to develop bunker buster variants of A5 et all.

You're conflating two different things . I was referring to rapid dispersal of air assets. USMC isn't geared up to fight a peer like China hence isn't equipped with those kind of air assets.

That's the job of the USAF & USN .

We need TBMs & CMs in huge numbers plus wartime production capacities as I've stated in the previous post & have been reiterating since 2020-21 like a stuck record particularly after the war in Ukraine broke out with Russia subjecting Ukraine to barrages of TBMs & CMs . Do you see any signs of that happening ?

A6 is for strategic usage.

Hope it works out .

My point remains.

For that they need to be based in Taiwan not Japan or RoK or the Philippines . And the USMC moving assets there before war breaks out will be crossing of a major red line which'd likely provoke a war .

Once war breaks out it'd be well nigh impossible to get to Taiwan to base these assets though I'm sure the Allies would attempt the same.

For that to happen China would have to lose a substantial part of it's air & naval assets.

By the time the battle of Iwo Jima occurred the Japanese were already on the verge of losing the war .

VE was a matter of time as the Russians & the allies were already in Germany surrounding it from all sides .

Iwo Jima was too late to make a difference even if the Japanese won which in the event they didn't.

The USMC is reportedly already deployed in Taiwan. They will be the first to engage PLA forces closing in on Taiwan's outer islands.

The US apparently has its own string of pearls strategy for China with Bagram AB and St Martin's Island being 2 of the latest pieces.
 
Last edited:
What's ironic about the Chinese is in order to get away from the Soviet Union and the US, they ended up building their biggest factories a lot closer to India.. Like Chengdu, Xian, Lanzhou, all less than 1500 km away. Even their silos are at that distance.

Most of their most important military nuclear complexes are 1000 km away; Sichuan and Qinghai.

But what's more important for us is to hit logistics, military nodes and HQs, and assembly areas rather than factories. The Chinese are likely to do the same. We are budget and capacity limited, they are tactically limited, so expending ammo is something they need to do judiciously as well.
 
That has a shorter range of 700 km for internal carriage. We need one for MKI.
They are planning to retain the same thurst(in fact increase of 0.5KN is envisaged to enhance end game manoeuvrability) as Normal circular LRLACM while changing its frame to become faceted and stealth optimized for a full range of 1500kms. Su-30MKI will get it first.
 
  • Like
Reactions: randomradio
The USMC is essentially an extension of the USN except they have their own dedicated air and ground assets. They have been working on similar concepts like EABO which revolves around creating temp staging areas for air and ground units + smaller landing ships of the LST type.
Good luck to them for attempting to land smaller ships of any type on Taiwanese shores in the midst of a firefight the likes of which the world would never have seen before.
Agreed. Although we may be taking a cue from the US' Prompt Conventional Strike prog to develop bunker buster variants of A5 et all.
And you're sure we'd be deploying them in numbers by 2030 ?
The USMC is reportedly already deployed in Taiwan. They will be the first to engage PLA forces closing in on Taiwan's outer islands.
I'd like to see evidence for this assertion.
The US apparently has its own string of pearls strategy for China with Bagram AB and St Martin's Island being 2 of the latest pieces.
Bagram AFB is out of the question. St Martin's Island is not big enough to host large runways meant to fly F-35 or even transporters like C-130J . It's good enough to fly surveillance aircraft.


This was pointed out in a program by Strat News Global I linked here long ago in the immediate aftermath of the ousting of SHW from BD.
 
I'd like to see evidence for this assertion

This was a fairly recent piece of news.


Bagram AFB is out of the question. St Martin's Island is not big enough to host large runways meant to fly F-35 or even transporters like C-130J . It's good enough to fly surveillance aircraft.

The new BNP govt may not follow through with Yunus' promises to the US. The Chinese have a lot of influence in Dhaka. Let's see.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rajput Lion
This was a fairly recent piece of news.

Frankly I'm not sure what are you driving at ? You claim USMC personnel are already deployed in Taiwan & post a link which clearly states the personnel deployed there are for the purposes of training.

Now while deployment of USMC or other personnel directly associated with combat will never be acknowledged we must also acknowledge the fact that had USMC personnel been deployed Beijing would've publicised the issue & thrown another tantrum the way they did when Pelosi visited Taiwan.

I've yet to see evidence of it.
The new BNP govt may not follow through with Yunus' promises to the US. The Chinese have a lot of influence in Dhaka. Let's see.
BD is screwed . Their economy is already in the doldrums & they depend on the west for loans for a market for their choddi & banians & also for remittances .

At the same time they're deeply indebted to China. Plus India looms large on them.

From our perspective the US gaining an AFB in BD won't be bad at all . The USAF can interdict PLAAF FAs especially J-20s taking off from Yunnan to target our rear flying over Myanmar & BD .

Incidentally they'd also be targetting the ANC & our chokehold over the Malacca Straits from Yunnan . That's the reason we partly rushed into purchasing the 26 nos Rafales M .
 
Frankly I'm not sure what are you driving at ? You claim USMC personnel are already deployed in Taiwan & post a link which clearly states the personnel deployed there are for the purposes of training.

Now while deployment of USMC or other personnel directly associated with combat will never be acknowledged we must also acknowledge the fact that had USMC personnel been deployed Beijing would've publicised the issue & thrown another tantrum the way they did when Pelosi visited Taiwan.

You and I both know that in most cases 'training' is just doublespeak. This deployment was obviously leaked in this manner as a signal to China.