S-400 'Triumf' News & Discussion

Pantsir is fully integrated with the S-400's C2. If we buy something else, we are gonna have to deal with the integration ourselves. Plus foreign sources will not agree to work with Russian tech, so there's not much choice here.

Pantsir is also highly mobile as is the S-400, and we don't yet have an indigenous equivalent. We have only static stuff.

It's cheap too.
I still dont get it. We made QRSAM. QRSAM is more capable than Pantsir missiles. We have AK630M integrated with other radars already (due to our naval projects). S-400 is a part of Akaashteer. We are going to integrate it anyways.

Why dont we have something like HQ-11 by combining QRSAM and AK630M?
 
In any case the QRSAM & other components put together to get an analogue to the Pantsir would be problematic as apart from being time consuming these aren't proven systems.
This is wrong. QRSAM is more capable than Pantsir missiles. China also made similar kind of system by combining their quick reaction missiles with AK730 guns in similar fashion on a truck based chesis.

We can do the same. Combine QRSAM and AK630M-2 on a 6x6 with an extenable / raiseable AESA radar.
 
This is wrong. QRSAM is more capable than Pantsir missiles. China also made similar kind of system by combining their quick reaction missiles with AK730 guns in similar fashion on a truck based chesis.

We can do the same. Combine QRSAM and AK630M-2 on a 6x6 with an extenable / raiseable AESA radar.
Who's denying the efficacy of the QRSAM ? My point is simple . You go in for a Pantsir analogue & how long do you think our armed forces will take with the user trials ?

Add paperwork to it & how long before we sign a contract. Then consider the time taken to come out with an LSP before we go in for mass production . Put a figure which you find most suitable .

Now add the fact the Russians would play hard to get to integrate this analogue with the S-400 besides charging a bomb.

Further consider the fact we'd be going up against Paxtan anytime now & China soon enough.

With all these facts at hand you're now in a position to have a holistic view of the situation in order to reach a decision.
 
This is wrong. QRSAM is more capable than Pantsir missiles. China also made similar kind of system by combining their quick reaction missiles with AK730 guns in similar fashion on a truck based chesis.

We can do the same. Combine QRSAM and AK630M-2 on a 6x6 with an extenable / raiseable AESA radar.

The IA (and now the IAF) wants a self contained SPAAGM system. QRSAM or the DRDO Raksha Kavach is a distributed system of systems (which to my mind is ideal for dispersed ops).

Despite its age, AK630 is a credible solution for CUAS, esp with the new pre-frag 30mm round developed by ARDE. The IA is already buying a small number of the gun mounts for the C-RAM role.

However, the drum ammo magazine will need to be redesigned + a hydraulic stabilization system added for mobility and accurate shooting.

It can be cued by Atulya ADFCR, IAI Sky Capture or even the Israeli radar associated with the L&T Sudarshan towed AA gun.
 
If ordered.. when will these Pantsir systems be deployed and operational anyway? If it happens atleast by 2028-30, it may have some weight behind it.
Otherwise, the argument that we need it for China threat in near term.. may not be justified.
 
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I still dont get it. We made QRSAM. QRSAM is more capable than Pantsir missiles. We have AK630M integrated with other radars already (due to our naval projects). S-400 is a part of Akaashteer. We are going to integrate it anyways.

Why dont we have something like HQ-11 by combining QRSAM and AK630M?

We are developing such systems in-house, but they are not ready yet.
 
It's seen enough action in real life to make a re-evaluation redundant.
IA deserve best of best, let's do evaluation again. We saw action of pantsir, but we didn't se how much Biho got upgraded.

We are going tobface sole Pakistan supplemented by Chinese satellite relay or joint pak china in near future. That battle wont be like of Iranian attack.
 
IA deserve best of best, let's do evaluation again. We saw action of pantsir, but we didn't se how much Biho got upgraded.

We are going tobface sole Pakistan supplemented by Chinese satellite relay or joint pak china in near future. That battle wont be like of Iranian attack.

IA's mobile requirement is part of a different project which will start soon.
 
IMO Indian Army needs to bridge the gap between SR-SAMs and VSHORADS/MANPADS. The threat of long range guided rockets will only increase in future and you don't want to be expending QRSAM/Akash missiles for every guided rocket barrage. I think Pantsir can easily fill this gap.
 
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IA deserve best of best, let's do evaluation again. We saw action of pantsir, but we didn't se how much Biho got upgraded.

We are going tobface sole Pakistan supplemented by Chinese satellite relay or joint pak china in near future. That battle wont be like of Iranian attack.
We are also preparing to fight a two-front war and prevail. As you saw last year, our ADS worked in a stellar manner and it's only going to get even better from now onwards. Combining indigenous, Russian and Israeli systems under one C4 node is the key. Pantsir fits right as per this doctrine. Don't fret over it.
 
On the night of January 20, Russia used RM-48U target missiles for the first time to strike ground targets in Ukraine.

The Colonel GSh Telegram channel reported on this.

These missiles can be launched from air defense systems such as the S-300 or S-400.

It is noted that the RM-48U target missile is built on the basis of the 5V55 or 48N6DM surface-to-air guided missile and is intended for air defense system crew training.

These missiles are converted from decommissioned surface-to-air missiles that have reached the end of their service life.

 
IMO
1. We need to focus on the proximity fuse if it hasn't been addressed yet for the terminal phase interception... The proximity sensor should be a hybrid dynamic timer sensor. This sensor should be able to calculate in real-time based on the target's speed for head-on interceptions. And if it's in chase mode or for a side impact interception, I think a standard proximity sensor would suffice.

2. ABM best chance of Engagement if planned during the boost phase or mid-course

In the video below, the ABM intercepts in the terminal phase, and the missile did activate the proximity sensor, but given missile's high speed, it doesn't really have any impact the warhead.

 
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India’s fourth S 400 Triumf air defence system, which has been delayed by nearly three years, is finally ready and undergoing final tests before delivery in the second quarter of this year, ThePrint has learnt.

Sources in the defence and security establishment told ThePrint that the system was to be delivered in March but will now reach the Indian shores by May, or June.The sources said that the fifth S-400 system will be delivered in the last quarter of this year, giving a flip to India’s planned air defence network.

It is learnt that out of the total five systems, three would be deployed along the western border with Pakistan. The sources said that with the three systems deployed, the air defence against threats emanating from Pakistan will be complete.

The deliveries will take place at a time when India is already working on placing an additional order for five new S-400 air defence systems, which will become integral to the Project Sudarshan Chakra, announced by Modi on Independence Day.

The sources said that once all the 10 air defence systems are in place along with India’s own planned Project Khusha, the airspace around the country will almost become impregnable when it comes to drones, 4.5 Gen plus fighters, and missiles.

They explained that the S-400s had performed exceptionally well during Operation Sindoor and was able to keep Pakistani aircraft at bay, including the J-10s.

Not only did the S-400 record its longest hit ever during the 88-hour conflict between India and Pakistan, the sources said the ability of the system to shoot and scoot in a short span of time, which allows it to evade enemy fire, was also proved.

On 7 May, the IAF took down a JF-17 aircraft of the Pakistan Air Force well within the Pakistani airspace and forced their fighters to draw back.

However, the fighters did manage to enter into a missing coverage area for a limited period to launch their munitions.

“Once the third system is deployed, the entire western border becomes a fully secure arc and every single fighter, even deep inside Pakistani airspace, can be targeted,” a source explained.

The S-400 is capable of destroying incoming hostile aircraft, missiles and even drones within a range of up to 400 km. It has a tracking capability of nearly 600 km.

The system has been designed to knock down flying targets, including those equipped with stealth technologies, at a distance of about 400 km. It is also capable of taking out ballistic missiles and hypersonic targets.

Compared to its predecessor the S-300, the S-400 has a firing rate that is 2.5 times faster. The S-400 can be armed with four different types of missiles with ranges of 400 km, 250 km, 120 km and 40 km. The system’s Long Range radar can track more than 100 flying objects simultaneously while being able to engage a dozen targets.

PS: ANI's Ajit Dubey today said in an article, that the 4th system could be delivered in April or May.