I don't know what happened, Abinandan flew a bad MIG21 into the F-16 squadron in the middle of three Pakistani squadrons and was shot down, I see the Pakistani pilot's recollection, JF17 on the southern route locked the radar one by one on the Indian aircraft , but no aircraft crossed the border and no missiles were fired, of course. If Abhinandan flew over the border from the south side, then it was JF17 that shot him down naturally
Astra Series Air to Air Missiles
- Thread starter Fatalis
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Different countries define range differently, that's all, and there's no point in comparing range data at different altitudes
Jf-17's were down south and facing mirage 2000's. While the f-16's were targetting the flankers the mig 21 snuck up on one of F-16's (using terrain masking) and then whatever ensued. The mig 21 had traversed into pakistani airspace for quite a while before being shotdown. The f-16's were caught by surprise and a lot of aim 120's missed. The sd-10a was pretty much useless in the scenario as bad as the flankers r-77's to be fair.
You are trying to oversell pla bvr missile capabilities. The sd-10a's have a known range of 80km, the sd-10b's seem to be close to the performance metrics of pl-12ae. The original pl-12's are closer to performance of the aim 120a's and r-77 while the pl-12 ae is in r-77-1 and aim120c5/c7 tier.
Your pl-15e has a range of 145km.
My point is not that the Chinese missile
The point of my discussion is the Astra-1 has a similar range to the AIM120A because the two ranges announced by India correspond with the AIM120A information. You can give some arguments to counter my point
As for the Chinese missile, PL12 is a missile that started production in 2005, after 20 years of development, its range has been extended from 70KM to 120KM, as for Pakistan, its model is older and its performance is relatively backward
India has an Indian narrative, Pakistan has a Pakistani narrative, and I just choose the credible part
Astra mk1 is operational equivalent of r-77-1 aka rvv-sd and the aim 120c5. That's all I have to say about this.
When comparing missiles to missiles, you should consider other factors like size (length, diameter, and weight) and speed. Range can't be the only factor in comparing missiles. If you have a bigger missile and you pack more fuel, it will have longer range. Can you share the PL12 missile specifications? Astra seems to be lighter and faster.
You are completely wrong, the R77-1 has a range of 70KM at an altitude of about 10KM, while the AIM120C5 has a range of about 110KM at this altitude. Which missile is the Astra-1 similar to?
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True, the PL-12 is 50KG heavier than Astra-1, but what difference does that make? Assuming a J-10 carries four missiles, using the Astra-1 would be 200KG lighter than the PL-12, but what impact would that have on an aircraft with a payload of more than 6t?
As for speed, I can find no official data on the PL-12, although some say Mach 4, but there is no official data to prove this
Moreover, with reference to the US AIM120D missile, the advanced missile should have the capability of strapdown inertial navigation /GPS combination + bidirectional data link correction, which the PL-12A has and the Astra-1 does not have
Are you seriously asking why having a lower weight for an air-to-air missile is an advantage? In air combat its always a serious advantage.
MICA NG - 112 Kg
I-Derby ER - 122 kg
Both have similar or better performance with way less weight.
Have all of those with less weight.
PL-12AE weighs 214 kg, and PL-15E weighs 210 kg. Why can't China make lighter missiles?
But the aim 120c5's range is saud to be around 105km on paper. How could it reach 110km? I understand that altitude effects missile range but still how?
Our Chinese friend is having a hard-time in accepting that Astra MK1 is lighter, faster, more agile and even sleeker looking than his PL-12A missile. All-in-all, Astra MK1 is simply superior by design
Astra Mk1 has all modern features when it comes to guidance. The 80km and 154kg figures were for the old configuration that used old control surfaces and motor design. The Current Mk1 can do >100km when launched from 15km, weighs 170kg with the warhead, and features a bidirectional data link. AIM-120C, when launched by a supersonic aircraft (1.5 Mach) at 10km, can't even do 80km. The figures for the max range are calculated when launched from a supersonic aircraft flying at high altitude (like 15-18-20km).
AIM-120C has a very high burn rate where it achieves its maximum speed in less than 10 seconds after launch, C5 has a propellant mass of around 51kg. Astra Mk1 follows a similar concept where it expends all of its propellant in the initial seconds of flight, but compared to C5, it carries >60kg propellant (around 20% more) and achieves a higher maximum speed (>4.5 Mach).
AIM-120D uses a very ingenious method where it has two motors without separating them into separate pulses, the first is a small booster motor for acceleration and the second is a large sustainer motor, these two have no space between them and utilise the space to the fullest.
Astra Mk2 has a 180mm diameter and an 1130mm long pulse-1 with a medium burn rate that takes longer (compared to Mk1) to achieve max speed and idles for a bit before igniting the pulse-2 which is 530mm in length. The pulse-2 has a 35% higher burn rate when compared to pulse-1, this helps it regain energy quickly and burn out. Mk2 has a slightly lower propellant mass at 60.8kg when compared to Mk1, but the motor design and pulse separation allow it to achieve ranges much higher than Mk1.
How advanced is our game? The pulse-2 is programmable mid-flight and can be triggered depending on how the target reacts. Our missile game is peaking every day.
The LX1111 guy should stop yapping, this isn't SDF.
AIM-120C has a very high burn rate where it achieves its maximum speed in less than 10 seconds after launch, C5 has a propellant mass of around 51kg. Astra Mk1 follows a similar concept where it expends all of its propellant in the initial seconds of flight, but compared to C5, it carries >60kg propellant (around 20% more) and achieves a higher maximum speed (>4.5 Mach).
AIM-120D uses a very ingenious method where it has two motors without separating them into separate pulses, the first is a small booster motor for acceleration and the second is a large sustainer motor, these two have no space between them and utilise the space to the fullest.
Astra Mk2 has a 180mm diameter and an 1130mm long pulse-1 with a medium burn rate that takes longer (compared to Mk1) to achieve max speed and idles for a bit before igniting the pulse-2 which is 530mm in length. The pulse-2 has a 35% higher burn rate when compared to pulse-1, this helps it regain energy quickly and burn out. Mk2 has a slightly lower propellant mass at 60.8kg when compared to Mk1, but the motor design and pulse separation allow it to achieve ranges much higher than Mk1.
How advanced is our game? The pulse-2 is programmable mid-flight and can be triggered depending on how the target reacts. Our missile game is peaking every day.
The LX1111 guy should stop yapping, this isn't SDF.
Excellent post
. Just two things:AFAIK, AIM-120D3 doesn't have a dual-thrust boost-sustain grain/motor. Rather just all-boost grain motor which propels it at very high speed nearing Mach 5. Earlier AMRAAMs indeed had boost-sustain dual-thrust grain. But because of the need to increase range, AIM-120D has a far more optimized lofted profile which demands all-boost propellant grain in order to increase speed during climb. It has a very high-burn rate and the motor burns out in just 6-7 seconds. But advantage is its high climb rate and thus near 200kms max range that is literally double that of AIM-120C5.
Again, Astra MK2 has identical 178mm diameter of Astra 1 in the seeker/fore-section. The mid-section is thicker at 190mm. So, it should carry slightly more fuel than MK1. @marich01 posted news regarding Astra 2 diameter few months back.
Absolutely
you are right, i had confused the two.
mk1's single pulse is longer than the two pulses of mk2 combined and weighs a bit more than 61kg.