Astra Series Air to Air Missiles

[LX1111]

You should be taking us very very seriously. Let me explain why .


They aren't bragging. It's called deception. It's a tool of war . The Chinese ALWAYS indulge in it . Your airfields in Tibet are high & it's a disadvantage to launch your fighter aircrafts from there. There are no two views about it.



Hear me out well Chang , India may well be at disadvantage when taking on China but so is Philipines . Does that mean we're the same ?

By taking us on China will be committing a huge blunder. We are literally the only power in Asia who can seriously dent your entire war fighting machinery like what Ukraine is doing to Russia but on 10x the scale if not more

That's precisely what the US & its allies like Japan & Taiwan desire. To turn us into another Ukraine that degrades the Chinese war fighting machinery significantly & get destroyed in the process such that you aren't in a position to undertake your reunification with Taiwan for another few decades.

That's the only reason we are avoiding a NATO like treaty with them . But I'm not sure the CCP understands this & they will continue what they've been doing all along. Eventually it'd lead to a war with India & all that I've written above wil come to pass.

Right now the Chinese are in a state of hubris. The Japanese who've been through such a phase 80 years ago recognise it & declared it to be so. The CCP thinks the US is in a state of terminal decline & now is the time for China to rise.

We are of the opinion that while the US is in a state of decline it's not as weak as China perceives it to be nor is China as strong as the CCP thinks it is. Your time will come but 2 decades later. Till then all you had to do was follow Comrade Deng's philosophy of Hiding your strength , biding your time & keeping your head down .

Alas ! Under Great Helmsman 2.0 Emperor Xi Jinping you showed your hand 2 decades too soon. The Wuhan virus pandemic added to the negative perception the West had about you. Had you waited the US & the west would've perceptibly declined given their penchant for stirring up wars the world over & spreading themselves thin.

Have you studied materialist dialectics? Do you think the world is a child playing house? Whoever is strong will be the boss of this world? ?
The struggle between China and the United States is the competition of global dominance. The United States has financial hegemony and high-tech hegemony. In order to develop itself, China needs to upgrade its industries and look out for raw materials and markets, which touches the interests of the United States. The reason India doesn't ally with the US is not what he wants India to consume like a millstone, Because India wants the US to support him to replace China as the next workshop of the world, but the US does not agree, he explicitly told India, The industry of the future will not just go to India, India will not be the next China

 

[_Anonymous_]

Have you studied materialist dialectics? Do you think the world is a child playing house? Whoever is strong will be the boss of this world? ?
The struggle between China and the United States is the competition of global dominance. The United States has financial hegemony and high-tech hegemony. In order to develop itself, China needs to upgrade its industries and look out for raw materials and markets, which touches the interests of the United States. The reason India doesn't ally with the US is not what he wants India to consume like a millstone, Because India wants the US to support him to replace China as the next workshop of the world, but the US does not agree, he explicitly told India, The industry of the future will not just go to India, India will not be the next China

I can tell very clearly either you haven't understood anything of what I've written there or you've understood everything but are just deflecting.

Anyway I've better things to do .

 

[LX1111]

I can tell very clearly either you haven't understood anything of what I've written there or you've understood everything but are just deflecting.

Anyway I've better things to do .

Lol, although China's education is very bad, it still taught me political economy and historical materialism to understand the basic operating principles of the capitalist world, while you are different, as if India only taught you who has the biggest fist will be the boss. Such a stupid thing.

 

[Tatvamasi]

Lol, although China's education is very bad, it still taught me political economy and historical materialism to understand the basic operating principles of the capitalist world, while you are different, as if India only taught you who has the biggest fist will be the boss. Such a stupid thing.

This is damn hilarious.

I wasn't wrong in my earlier assessment that the current crop of Wumaos are Gaokao fail who owe their position in MSS courtesy some relation in the CCP.

Poor chappie is on a defence forum & can't tell an adaptor or a dual rack pylon. I mean if this is the level of analysis PLAAF indulges in , it's literally the only thing that would save us in the upcoming war against China.

I hope the Chinese continue their hubristic analyses. Underestimating your enemies is always a good thing.

The income increased, so 50 cents is no longer an attractive proposition.

 

[jetray]

Have you studied materialist dialectics? Do you think the world is a child playing house? Whoever is strong will be the boss of this world? ?
The struggle between China and the United States is the competition of global dominance. The United States has financial hegemony and high-tech hegemony. In order to develop itself, China needs to upgrade its industries and look out for raw materials and markets, which touches the interests of the United States. The reason India doesn't ally with the US is not what he wants India to consume like a millstone, Because India wants the US to support him to replace China as the next workshop of the world, but the US does not agree, he explicitly told India, The industry of the future will not just go to India, India will not be the next China

just curious, are you using a translator or did you type it yourself?

 

[Rajput Lion]

View attachment 36884
View attachment 36885
there are an interesting point among Chinese military enthusiasts, the Astra missile, which uses three types of pylons on tejas, The Su 30 uses only two. Why? We think that the Astra missile is, logically, a Russian missile, So tejas needed a translation machine for Western avionics to read the missile's signal
But the Russian missile, the Su-30, could easily read the missile's signal

The Russian equivalent missile is RVV-SD/R-77-1 that has 200mm diameter just like your PL-12/15 series missiles. Astra has 178mm diameter, exactly the same as AIM-120 series missiles. So your BVRAAM is actually more close to the Russian BVRs than Astra.

The mid-body wings of Astra gives it great lift hence it turns very well even in the endgame/post boost phase. It's also conceived as a CCM, hence the requirement for such wings.

I also have some more interesting info for you. Earlier Astra 2 actually had much smaller forebody mounted fins, but Astra MK1's aerodynamics has impressed IAF/DRDO so much that now even MK2 variant uses similar aero profile.

Astra MK1 is smaller/lighter than your PL-12A and still has more range. Also, India can mount any weapon on MKI because it has got Indian mission computers. Do your research properly because you ought to keep us more close than Pak

This is just our observation of the Indian Army, nothing, we just collect some public information analysis to come to the conclusion, We also do not care about the Indian Air Force, after all, the Indian Air Force is suppressed in quality and quantity by the PLAAF, you do not pose any threat. For this missile, we also have a point of view, is his huge wings, why? Because India's steering gear is not good, to control the missile requires a larger wing area to improve efficiency, which reflects India's mechanical and electrical level is far behind

Yes, PLAAF has got better quantity and tech. But IAF still rules quality wise. And trust me you wouldn't want to find that out in reality Mr. Chinese

 

[LX1111]

That's when you are in a direct conflict where there are no peacetime rules of engagement. Indian MKIs could only engage when fired upon.

Galwan was fought with sticks and stones because both parties adhered to the no-gun policy. The PAF's ego was hurt because they couldn't detect the deep strike inside their territory. So, they wanted to show of force. No kind of missiles new missiles would have changed the story that day.

Let's not derail this thread with that discussion. Please use the appropriate thread.

You don't need to stress to me that India has won, the Chinese have own observations, except to say that this border clash provides a good window to observe the IAF
The difficulty of using the r77 missile against the aim-120c5, considering that India has a relatively early version of the missile, it has a maximum range of around 50 km,The AIM 120c5 has a maximum range of 110 km，
However, India's Astra missile has a range of only 44 km when launched at 8 km
This figure is similar to the early AIM- 120A/B level

It has a maximum range of 110 km at altitude of 15 km, the same level as the AIM120A/B,
Overall, the Indians are able to produce a weapon similar to the aim 120 AB missile. This is deserves to be taken seriously

 

[Rajput Lion]

Astra mk2 is closer to amraam 120d not pl-15. Pl-15 is a bigger missile. Although pl-15e range is 145km. Provided Chinese claims are true the non-export version would have a range of 200-300km. How true are the numbers?? No idea.
We need four bvr missiles
An amraam-d equivalent (astra mk2)
A pl-15/17/aim 174bequivalent (does not exist)
An r-37m/aim 54 equivalent (does not exist)
A meteor equivalent (astra mk3/sfdr)

Missile class isn't just justified by its max range. It is basically classified by its propulsion. That's why R-77 is in the same class as AIM-120C5, though latter enjoys almost twice bigger range.

I've already done a comparision of Astra 2 with PL-15, based on Astra 1's perormance/range vs PL-12. Despite slightly less girth and length, Astra 1 exceeds PL-12A in all parameters and Astra 2 shall match PL-15 too.

All dual-pulse missiles are classified as the same class. So, AIM-120D3, despite its single-pulse(boost only) rocket motor can't compete with either Astra 2 or PL-15.

Meteor and Astra 3 like SFDR are at the top of the food chain, as far as BVRAAMs are concerened.

Point is, we'll draw parity with PLAAF once Astra 2 becomes fully operational in-terms of firepower and if our Astra 3 can become operational before their SFDR known as PL-21, then we'll enjoy a lead over them.

That's why having domestic missiles are so important. You can't become a military superpower based only on imports.

 

[LX1111]

Missile class isn't just justified by its max range. It is basically classified by its propulsion. That's why R-77 is in the same class as AIM-120C5, though latter enjoys almost twice bigger range.

Wrong, the different propulsion modes of the missile can not be used as the criteria for missile classification, guide head performance, two-way data link, whether there is lateral propulsion, propellant specific impulse, are all determining factors.

I've already done a comparision of Astra 2 with PL-15, based on Astra 1's perormance/range vs PL-12. Despite slightly less girth and length, Astra 1 exceeds PL-12A in all parameters and Astra 2 shall match PL-15 too

Wrong. As I argued above, the Astra 1 missile is similar in performance to the SD-10A, a PLAAF missile that began service in 2005. The true PL12A is an advanced missile with two-way data links, a range of over 120KM, and a maximum maneuvering capability of 38G. These are some of the newly released data from AVIC at the Air show

All dual-pulse missiles are classified as the same class. So, AIM-120D3, despite its single-pulse(boost only) rocket motor can't compete with either Astra 2 or PL-15.

Meteor and Astra 3 like SFDR are at the top of the food chain, as far as BVRAAMs are concerened.

Point is, we'll draw parity with PLAAF once Astra 2 becomes fully operational in-terms of firepower and if our Astra 3 can become operational before their SFDR known as PL-21, then we'll enjoy a lead over them.

That's why having domestic missiles are so important. You can't become a military superpower based only on imports.

As I said before, using a double pulse engine does not mean that it is better than a single pulse engine, the specific impulse of the fuel, the performance of the engine, and the ballistic planning ability are all key factors in determining the range, the Astra-2 has a range of 160KM at an altitude of 15KM, and the AIM120D3 has a range of 160KM at an altitude of 10KM. This means the Indian missile is not superior to the AIM120D3, let alone the PL15

 

[Adm_Kenobi]

Pulling numbers from the *censored*

 

[Rajput Lion]

Wrong, the different propulsion modes of the missile can not be used as the criteria for missile classification, guide head performance, two-way data link, whether there is lateral propulsion, propellant specific impulse, are all determining factors.


Wrong. As I argued above, the Astra 1 missile is similar in performance to the SD-10A, a PLAAF missile that began service in 2005. The true PL12A is an advanced missile with two-way data links, a range of over 120KM, and a maximum maneuvering capability of 38G. These are some of the newly released data from AVIC at the Air showView attachment 38031


As I said before, using a double pulse engine does not mean that it is better than a single pulse engine, the specific impulse of the fuel, the performance of the engine, and the ballistic planning ability are all key factors in determining the range, the Astra-2 has a range of 160KM at an altitude of 15KM, and the AIM120D3 has a range of 160KM at an altitude of 10KM. This means the Indian missile is not superior to the AIM120D3, let alone the PL15

AIM120D3 has single-pulse boost-boost only rocket motor. It gets its 160kms range from its high-lofted launch profile. If Astra 2 is launched that way, it'll have over 200kms range.

Your PL-12A has 38G max maneuvering range, while Astra 1 has 40G max off the rails. Astra 1 also gets same range with less weight/diameter/length.

Who is superior then?

 

[LX1111]

AIM120D3 has single-pulse boost-boost only rocket motor. It gets its 160kms range from its high-lofted launch profile. If Astra 2 is launched that way, it'll have over 200kms range.

Your PL-12A has 38G max maneuvering range, while Astra 1 has 40G max off the rails. Astra 1 also gets same range with less weight/diameter/length.

Who is superior then?

First of all, there is no evidence to prove that the maximum range of the Astra2 missile is not using a high-throw trajectory, in fact, modern missiles usually use a high-throw trajectory, and there is no official proof that you said 200KM,
The AIM120 uses a new engine and improves the missile's ability to plan its own trajectory, and the AIM120D3 has shot down a QF-16 at a range of more than 200KM
Secondly, according to the official statement of India, the range of Astra1 missile is only about 70% of PL–12A,
PL-12A has two-way data link and GPS compound guidance, , Two-way data link can realize A launch and B guidance.
GPS combined guidance can improve the anti-jamming ability and trajectory planning ability of the missile

 

[Lolwa]

the Astra 1 missile is similar in performance to the SD-10A, a PLAAF missile that began service in 2005

Not even close the sd-10a has a range of 80km while the astra has a range of 110km.

 

[Lolwa]

according to the official statement of India, the range of Astra1 missile is only about 70% of PL–12A,

Nothing of that sort has ever been said. Would love to know what's yours source. The pl-12 isn't even discussed. The closest8 equivalent of astra mk 1 is the aim 120c7,C5 and r77ae. Pl-12 variants don't seem to have any 120km missile.

 

[LX1111]

Not even close the sd-10a has a range of 80km while the astra has a range of 110km.

Nothing of that sort has ever been said. Would love to know what's yours source. The pl-12 isn't even discussed. The closest8 equivalent of astra mk 1 is the aim 120c7,C5 and r77ae. Pl-12 variants don't seem to have any 120km missile.

The standard of each country is different, India claims that the range of 110KM is the standard at a height of 15KM, which is the same as the range of AIM120A. This chart is a table of the relationship between the range and height of AIM120A

While the Chinese standard is 10KM altitude, the latest official introduction of the PL12 is at this altitude of 120KM

PL-12AE air-to-air missile is a medium and long range radar air-to-air missile, which has the characteristics of long range, high guidance accuracy and strong anti-jamming ability. It can undertake the combat mission of over-the-horizon air combat, and is used to attack air targets such as fighters, bombers, UAVs and cruise missiles. The aircraft carrying platform is JF-17, Raptor, large UAV, etc. The launching mode is guide rail and catapult; Maximum available overload 38; Attack distance ≥120km; The guidance mode is strapdown inertial navigation system/Beidou satellite combination + bidirectional data link correction + active radar terminal guidance;
Length 3939mm, diameter 203mm, mass ≤214kg.

 

[LX1111]

Nothing of that sort has ever been said. Would love to know what's yours source.

Since the two missiles have the same range at both altitudes of 8KM and 15KM, we can assume that AIM–120A and Astra1 have similar flight characteristics, with a range of 80KM at 10KM, which is almost 70% of the PL12A

 

[Rajput Lion]

The standard of each country is different, India claims that the range of 110KM is the standard at a height of 15KM, which is the same as the range of AIM120A. This chart is a table of the relationship between the range and height of AIM120AView attachment 38039
While the Chinese standard is 10KM altitude, the latest official introduction of the PL12 is at this altitude of 120KM
View attachment 38040
PL-12AE air-to-air missile is a medium and long range radar air-to-air missile, which has the characteristics of long range, high guidance accuracy and strong anti-jamming ability. It can undertake the combat mission of over-the-horizon air combat, and is used to attack air targets such as fighters, bombers, UAVs and cruise missiles. The aircraft carrying platform is JF-17, Raptor, large UAV, etc. The launching mode is guide rail and catapult; Maximum available overload 38; Attack distance ≥120km; The guidance mode is strapdown inertial navigation system/Beidou satellite combination + bidirectional data link correction + active radar terminal guidance;
Length 3939mm, diameter 203mm, mass ≤214kg.

Astra MK1 has much more range than what is publicaly known. Most of the specs that you see online are of the first Astra 1 prototype, which had length of 3.57m.

The Astra 1 that has gone in production is much more longer at 3.84m. If older Astra could reach 110kms at 15km altitude then you could just imagine what the latest version's max range would be.

And lol at your comparison of Astra with AIM-120A. Astra is superior than even AIM-120C5 and is second ONLY to AIM-120D in the single-pulse BVR missiles because of the latter being much more refined/mature version of its kind. Astra also has very high speed.

Just swallow your Chinese ego and accept that Astra MK1 is at least at par with your PL-12A.

 

[LX1111]

Astra MK1 has much more range than what is publicaly known. Most of the specs that you see online are of the first Astra 1 prototype, which had length of 3.57m.

The Astra 1 that has gone in production is much more longer at 3.84m. If older Astra could reach 110kms at 15km altitude then you could just imagine what the latest version's max range would be

Is there any official authority to back that up?

 

[LX1111]

And lol at your comparison of Astra with AIM-120A. Astra is superior than even AIM-120C5 and is second ONLY to AIM-120D in the single-pulse BVR missiles because of the latter being much more refined/mature version of its kind. Astra also has very high speed

With India's own official data proving that AIM120A and Astra-1 have similar range, I can make that assumption

Just swallow your Chinese ego and accept that Astra MK1 is at least at par with your PL-12A

I only searched some official data and made some comparisons.
Moreover, we are only comparing the range of this one data,

 

[Lolwa]

The standard of each country is different, India claims that the range of 110KM is the standard at a height of 15KM, which is the same as the range of AIM120A. This chart is a table of the relationship between the range and height of AIM120AView attachment 38039
While the Chinese standard is 10KM altitude, the latest official introduction of the PL12 is at this altitude of 120KM
View attachment 38040
PL-12AE air-to-air missile is a medium and long range radar air-to-air missile, which has the characteristics of long range, high guidance accuracy and strong anti-jamming ability. It can undertake the combat mission of over-the-horizon air combat, and is used to attack air targets such as fighters, bombers, UAVs and cruise missiles. The aircraft carrying platform is JF-17, Raptor, large UAV, etc. The launching mode is guide rail and catapult; Maximum available overload 38; Attack distance ≥120km; The guidance mode is strapdown inertial navigation system/Beidou satellite combination + bidirectional data link correction + active radar terminal guidance;
Length 3939mm, diameter 203mm, mass ≤214kg.

Seems bs because if that is true Pakistanis would have fired their sd-10's instead of wasting their amraams.