Point is the French are more experienced and willing to rig our Rafales for the N-mission should we ask for it. Not so with EF consortium partners and the peacenik Swedes.
MMRCA 2.0 - Updates and Discussions
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Delivering Excellence: 110 F-35s Delivered in 2024
We delivered over a hundred F-35s last year, reaffirming Lockheed Martin's commitment to our customers and warfighters.www.f35.com
Lockheed Looks to Deliver Up to 190 F-35s in 2025
Lockheed Martin expects to deliver 170-190 F-35s in 2025 and took almost $2 billion in charges on secret projects in 2024's fourth quarter.www.airandspaceforces.com
Those are exports, not the USAF.
The USAF is cutting numbers for next year to just 25 jets.
Report: Air Force to Bed Down Only 25 F-35 Fighters in Fiscal 2026
The Air Force will only bed down 25 F-35 fighters in fiscal 2026, according to the Pentagon's most recent Selected Acquisition Report.
www.airandspaceforces.com
The Air Force’s plan calls for buying 42 per year in fiscal 2025 and 2026, 47 in both 2027 and 2028, and then a steady 48 per year until 2048, with the last 34 aircraft planned for 2049, for a total of 1,763.
Before that, the original plan was 80-110 jets a year.
Under early plans for the program, the Air Force envisioned buying between 81 and 110 F-35s per year, with the intent of concluding production in the 2030s.
So the new numbers are down from the revised plan to induct 72 a year.
Congress Boosts Air Force 2024 Budget With More F-35s
Congress added three F-35s the Air Force didn't request in the final version of the fiscal 2024 appropriations bill.
www.airandspaceforces.com
Feel free to read this article to know the actual state of affairs while comparing with the above articles.
US Air Force asks for 72 fighters in 2024, and it might happen again
Top Air Force leaders have said for years that it needs to buy at least 72 new fighters each year to both modernize its fighter fleet and lower its age.
www.defensenews.com
There's NGAD too, if that takes off. So there's the 72.
Once the F-15EX production is over, the USAF can switch to building 300+ cheaper single engine jets, a notional concept was released last year.
Air Force Floats Light Stealth Fighter Concept As Its Heavy Fighter Program May Be In Jeopardy
The Air Force’s top officer touted the concept as a path to develop a less expensive and more flexible fighter design, which is odd considering a top priority was the service’s NGAD heavy fighter. The Air Force’s top officer touted the concept as a path to develop a less expensive and more...
www.twz.com
The 36 were made for nuclear delivery in mind. Atleast that's what's believed. I think typhoon might get a nod considering it has the best tech right now. If the f5 isn't bidded it's over for the rafale.
Rafale is compatible with what we need for nuclear strikes, but that wasn't in consideration for MMRCA or GTG.
Maybe MRFA Rafales will carry our nukes some day, but I'd rather see Indian jets modified for nuclear missions.
Buddy its a nuke bomb you are dropping. In steep climbing also it will stay within 15-18 km abive ground zero, not to outer space right. The nuclear EM pulse is so strong enough tonfry the electronics of the bombing aircrafts at that distance.
The bomb is released in a ballistic trajectory which means longer time to impact. This would allow the launch ac to get away on full AB. Mostly, air-dropped nukes are tactical in nature with lower yields (>10 kt) compared to strategic thermonuclear warhead on BMs so the blast radius is much more limited.
That's for the latest model iirc. Until recently max yield for B61 was ~10kt. I believe the 340kt version is meant more for NATO than the US itself.
There is a possibility that 5th gen jets will be allowed to compete in MRFA, lifting the 4.5th gen restriction.
It will allow the Su-57 to be offered. The F-35 too, if the US is willing.
KF-21 now meets MRFA's timeline, so that increases the possibility of participation. Block 2 is the definitive model and will enter the flight test stage in 2026, expected to finish in 2028. But ToT is difficult for them. It's unclear if the Koreans will enter though. If they do the IAF will be able to learn a more interesting roadmap 'cause Korea is a long term aerospace competitor. We are competing in the same segments (LCA and AMCA), so that could pose a roadblock to entry.
It will allow the Su-57 to be offered. The F-35 too, if the US is willing.
KF-21 now meets MRFA's timeline, so that increases the possibility of participation. Block 2 is the definitive model and will enter the flight test stage in 2026, expected to finish in 2028. But ToT is difficult for them. It's unclear if the Koreans will enter though. If they do the IAF will be able to learn a more interesting roadmap 'cause Korea is a long term aerospace competitor. We are competing in the same segments (LCA and AMCA), so that could pose a roadblock to entry.
The opposite. B61 Mods 3, 4, 7, 10, and 11 exist, out of which only 7 and 10 (mix) are strategic. 11 is being converted from 7 for strategic use. Europe has 3 and 4, which are both tactical.
These weapons are from the 80s, nothing new about them.
The US plans to develop a Mod 12 replacement for Europe, which is tactical, it goes up to 50 Kt, whereas a Mod 13 will be used by the US for strategic use.
What a joke! MMRCA to MRFA to Nothing!
Noteworthy point, KF-21 was started AFTER initial MMRCA was launched.
India takes more time in deciding to buy a plane than Korea took to build one.
KF-21's objectives were quite modest, and the US was willing to assist in its development. AMCA-class empty weight but no stealth, no IWB, and less internal fuel.
Even its avionics build is quite modest compared to what Europe has achieved for the modern versions of Rafale and Typhoon. Most of what they have is coming from the West. For example, the AESA radar and IRST are primarily Italian and the EW suite was developed with American help.
They can take such a risk 'cause their force structure is well above normal for their needs relative to their primary adversary. Otoh, we want more advanced technologies than what's going into KF-21 for MRFA, and on operationally proven or combat proven airframes, so the IAF was not gonna waste its time with another modest and pointless development program when they are already managing 3.
I mean this is just the second fighter that they designed and built. India had designed and built Marut and Tejas already. Tejas was already flying in 2002 or so. So I do not know which knowledge base we are looking at.
Not to mention, we are comparing buying fighter jets and building one from scratch.
Dude, do you even realize I am comparing buying with building from scratch?
BUYING! The act of exchanging money for merchandise.
Indian BUYING is slower than Korean BUILDING from scratch!
And do note, I am only talking about BUYING and not even delivery.
All they are doing is sticking older stuff on a more modern airframe, which gives the illusion of speed, and they are getting a lot of help doing it. Whereas what we are doing takes 10-15 years of effort, and we are doing it by ourselves. And our objective is to buy what's taken 10-15 years of effort by others, like Typhoon T5 or Rafale F5, instead of just buying something older, like the F-15EX or F-16IN, off the shelf.
Basically, you cannot fight China with the KF-21. It's about 1 to 1.5 generations behind the latest stuff. I think it's basically using technologies developed for Gripen E/F.
Well, there is another reason. South Korea does not treats it fighter development as primarily an employment generation and a diplomacy project. It treats it as a well, fighter jet project. India on the other hand....
Look, KF-21 first flew in 2022 and will be introduced in 2026 or so. Thats a typical fourth or so gen timeline looks like.
India on the other hand had been talking about MRFA since 2018 (thats when this thread was started) and its 2025 with no clear idea what fighter they want to procure.
For that matter, Tejas MK2 first prototype has been upcoming since 2011 or so when its poster / model was first shown in Aero India. At that time it was promised that prototype will come by 2013. Then it became 2017 and now it is scheduled for 2026 with an introduction date of 2029.
And I am pretty sure IAF is not going to get its hands on Tejas Mk2 anyway before 2032 or so. Let that sink in. India is taking 20-22 years to MODIFY its existing fourth gen fighter into a new variant.
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KF-21 started long before that. And it will take until 2028 to achieve full maturity. It's effectively a 13-year program, the design stage started in 2015. Or at least 9 years after CDR. It's a pretty generic program on a sufficiently advanced airframe with greater potential for modernization than existing 4th gen.
After buying the F-35, they signed a deal with the Americans for ToT of 21 technologies, out of 25. The remaining 4; AESA radar, IRST, targeting pod, and RF jammer; are coming in via Europe.
They have a decently long program with core European technologies, plus a 7-year testing cycle using all sorts of proven technologies.
Otoh, IAF's programs come with technologies wholly developed in India. For example, KF-21's radar comes with Italy's TRMs and some back-end, Saab's software, and with Elbit flight testing it. The IRST is Italy's Skyward-G combined with a Korean back-end. The Mk2's avionics will be indigenous across the board.
What's commendable is their ability to stick to their schedule. But what allowed them to do that is their modest requirements. Make it a bit more complex and that will bring in unpredictability. We eliminated unpredictability by deciding to develop the avionics first.
MRFA will give us far more advanced capabilities, they are incomparable to what the Koreans are doing. Kinda like they are setting up their first 16 nm fab plant while we are working on 2 nm and better.
Btw, Mk2 production is expected to begin in 2029, with first deliveries scheduled for 2031. So a full squadron only in 2032.
LOL! India is going to use Tejas and Su30s and Mig29s and Mirage 2000s to fight China. I am sure that will go swell. All of them are 2 generations behind the "latest stuff". Not to mention, India is not going to have fighters at all or fighters without engines to fight.