Agriculture in India : News, Updates, Discussion & Analysis

[jetray]

New farm laws herald new era of market freedom: Economic Survey

‘These legislations were designed "primarily" for the benefit of "small and marginal farmers", which constitute around 85% of the total number of farmers’

www.thehindu.com

Problem is not the law but the way it was rammed through instead of following the normal democratic process of debate & discussion. There is no point in discussing ifs & buts given the implementation of law is postponed. Now no one will believe what the govt says and will keep opposing for the sake of it.

 

[Suheldev]

I had multiple discussion on the said subject and at last I came to conclusion that the Sikhs who are forefront of this protest are thinking through there turban rather than using there head. For them it has become issue of pride and they will not listen to you even if you come with all the logical points. About Punjab I am rest assured that it is going down and there is no stopping to it, mark my words in next decade or so it will become BIMARU state and you will see Jats working as bhaiya's (farm labour) in field of Bihar.

Below I m putting the comparison between earlier system and new proposed system which are easy to understand for any sane people but not for them who still use turban or circumcised tools to make judgment.

 

[jetray]

hat I think is a genuine concern and Punjab Govt should voice their grievances to the parliament. We are a federal state and states should have power to decide things like agriculture and trade etc.

dude thats what dint happen, there was no discussion in the parliament. When the current govt has the majority why dint they spend at least 2-3 months discussing and then make their move. Its all that previous accumulated rambo karma came back to haunt the govt. Worse thing is every idiot who dint know what the law is but also where one earth India is have started commenting on it. Opposition was waiting for an excuse and govt handed it on a platter. To make matters worse govt arrested all those 21 year kids who cannot differentiate between tree and a plant.

 

[jetray]

I had multiple discussion on the said subject and at last I came to conclusion that the Sikhs who are forefront of this protest are thinking through there turban rather than using there head. For them it has become issue of pride and they will not listen to you even if you come with all the logical points. About Punjab I am rest assured that it is going down and there is no stopping to it, mark my words in next decade or so it will become BIMARU state and you will see Jats working as bhaiya's (farm labour) in field of Bihar.

Below I m putting the comparison between earlier system and new proposed system which are easy to understand for any sane people but not for them who still use turban or circumcised tools to make judgment.

It is pretty clear that the new laws will only allow private participation other than that nothing changes. There is no legal law on msp and as such it is not a legal right. Govt can stop msp even without this law.

 

[AbRaj]

Punjab and Kerala, two states that could have become developed states on their own have given up their future to fools of the highest order. One pretend to know farming but can't even compete with rich countries, the other threw their lot in with communists and now live like second and third class citizens in other states and countries.

And now, with the protests, the Punjabis and Haryanvis want to drag the whole of India down to their level. And have also unwittingly become agents of anti-national forces.

It’s waste Bengalisation happening there. They are campaigning against, destroying and demonising businesses under the influence of Union politics and some flavour of ethno-religious chauvinism just like Bengal did in 60s.

dude thats what dint happen, there was no discussion in the parliament. When the current govt has the majority why dint they spend at least 2-3 months discussing and then make their move. Its all that previous accumulated rambo karma came back to haunt the govt. Worse thing is every idiot who dint know what the law is but also where one earth India is have started commenting on it. Opposition was waiting for an excuse and govt handed it on a platter. To make matters worse govt arrested all those 21 year kids who cannot differentiate between tree and a plant.

my be it’s true. But as far as I’ve heard, there was a committee formed by this Govt to give advice to the states and Captain Amarinder and even Badals were part of that including CMs of States.
Yes it was brought in by ordinance(?) in parliament. But there were more than half
Dozens of govt panels and committees formed for the same reason.
What’s more funny is even BKU ( congress backed) and other unions demanded congress to include Abolition of APMC Act and get rid of Farmers from Arhtiyas.
Just watch the video I posted above, every tweet and manifesto is shown in that

And even now Govt is open for suggestions and changes. But there’s no going back to old British days.

 

[Suheldev]

It is pretty clear that the new laws will only allow private participation other than that nothing changes. There is no legal law on msp and as such it is not a legal right. Govt can stop msp even without this law.

Well there is difference in perspective they way you think and mine, as per your view Govt is bringing pvt players and from my point of view Govt is bringing Competition in agri industry, which will bring improvement in services to farmers and reduction of food losses. Rest discussion on MSP is just political, do you know milk and poultry has the highest growth rate in agri commodities for last 2 decades and there is no MSP in them.

 

[Cole_phelps]

The current govt dint follow any proper process and followed my way or highway approach. Now all the highways are occupied by the protesters.

There are procedures in democratic to pass laws which which need to follow all the due process like debate in the parliament and giving space/listening to other sides point of view as well.

The govt instead started with an ordinance and then tried to rush the law thru the parliament with zero debate. Which obviously made the opposition take to the street. Why do you want to blame them if you break all the established procedures of parliamentary democracy. If BJP couldnt convince their own ally how can they even convince opposition ?

Now the implementation of law is pushed off for another year or more. Instead of allowing all this to happen the current govt could have allowed the debate on the law in parliament for 2 months which would have atleast given them some moral right to brag about. Now they have screwed up every thing.

You think opposition has any valid points worth debating? Whole opposition retracted support to farm laws because of vote bank politics. Debate would have been on lines of some shouting and then walkout.

Forget govt, what's stopping Fram unions to negotiate with SC appointed panel (refused earlier) or file a case against laws? Put your valid arguments in court. Why the hesitation if your conscience says you are right?

But all I can see is huffing and puffing in name of protest with these clowns running around media on ground shouting "Godi media".

Farm laws are about giving an additional option. But then this disturbs the monopoly of middlemen.

 

[AbRaj]

UP is the biggest agricultural states by a large margin ( number of farmers dependent on Agriculture) and also largest food grain producing state overall followed by West Bengal. Punjab has highest productivity per capita for Wheat and Rice and nothing more. They don’t even come in top 3 in any other grain or dairy production. I don’t know why

 

[Tatvamasi]

1-2 acre waale kissan kahan se layenge machinery

Communicate in a language that everyone understands, please.

how they sustain prohibitive labor costs exclusively for themselves? How an uneducated or semi educated kissan generate invoices and required documentation? How micro kissans arrange packaging, lifiting, transportation and storage facilities for even few days? How individual farmers save themselves from exploitation from govt officials?

These heavy jagrans like GTM works in corporate setups, an uneducated farmers know nothing about GTM.

If you want to know about cooperative Mandi System, then visit any nearby mandi in Punjab and Haryana. Its not UP, Bihar or rest of India. If any artiya try to do any chori aur mismanagement, then farmer unions are so strong that they force state govt to cancel its license of commission agent.

Again, the flawed assumption that farmers are dumb.

Thats why I am telling you to visit any cooperative Mandi in Punjab & Haryana, research about it and the reality. You can see the efficiency of this system by yourself. Let alone cut of 20% or 30%, if an arthiya charge 1% to farmer then his business is over. Also, pre fixed commission to arthoyas is paid by govt not farmers. That's why we call them commission agents not middleman. But in new system govt trying to force middleman over us thats why ferocious push back by farmers!

You can sugar-coat and call whatever you want doesn't change the fact that they are in between seller and buyer thus an unnecessary middleman.

So, Lets assume all your claims are true and these 'commission agents' are God's gift to humanity. In that case why are you afraid of the farm reform?

Why would a farmer choose an alternative to reach the seller than 'commission agents'?

Why the protest if it's common wisdom in Punjab & Haryana?

 

[Maler]

Communicate in a language that everyone understands, please.


Again, the flawed assumption that farmers are dumb.


You can sugar-coat and call whatever you want doesn't change the fact that they are in between seller and buyer thus an unnecessary middleman.

So, Lets assume all your claims are true and these 'commission agents' are God's gift to humanity. In that case why are you afraid of the farm reform?

Why would a farmer choose an alternative to reach the seller than 'commission agents'?

Why the protest if it's common wisdom in Punjab &

We are afraid, because

1) We market our food grains in mandi not food stuff and food grains are state subject not come under central govt. Under concurrent list, center has no right to make rules for food grain marketing. Center govt is forcing these new rules made for food stuff trading over APMC Mandis. Not acceptable!

2) These new bills, if interoduced will destroy APMC Mandi system in max. 4-5 years and MSP will be gone in the absence of APMC. Then private mandis & its middleman with unlimited storage capacity, introduced under these new laws will exploit farmers in the absence of APMC Mandis.

3) Under contracting law, everything from seeds, fertilizers to machinery etc. will be provided by company and there no surety that company will buy all produce! If there is extra production and low demand, company can reject the produce under quality clause and loss will be incurred by farmer. If there is high demand for that product, extra profit will go company, not farmer. So if there is a loss, it will be farmers and if there is an extra profit, it will be companies.

3) So, in short period of time farming will be made so expensive that farmers will be forced to either sell their lands and give those lands to companies on long term leases and farmers will work over their own lands as labor. Not acceptable at all!

These are some major reasons of agitation by farmers!

 

[jetray]

You think opposition has any valid points worth debating? Whole opposition retracted support to farm laws because of vote bank politics. Debate would have been on lines of some shouting and then walkout.

Forget govt, what's stopping Fram unions to negotiate with SC appointed panel (refused earlier) or file a case against laws? Put your valid arguments in court. Why the hesitation if your conscience says you are right?

But all I can see is huffing and puffing in name of protest with these clowns running around media on ground shouting "Godi media".

Farm laws are about giving an additional option. But then this disturbs the monopoly of middlemen.

oh yeah you end up arbitrarily deciding that without giving the other side a chance and now they are the doing same to the govt as well. Opposition says the same thing about govt that they have no valid points to argue with. At this rate we will end up becoming like bangladesh of 1990's where opposition will be rioting in the street and govt will be licking their wounds in the parliament.


SC panel has no locus standi on these issues they only interpret laws they dont create laws. Its only the elected members in parliament can decide on what laws should be.

 

[randomradio]

Problem is not the law but the way it was rammed through instead of following the normal democratic process of debate & discussion. There is no point in discussing ifs & buts given the implementation of law is postponed. Now no one will believe what the govt says and will keep opposing for the sake of it.

The opposition has no interest in this. They are scuttling anything good as a matter of policy.

 

[randomradio]

We are afraid, because

1) We market our food grains in mandi not food stuff and food grains are state subject not come under central govt. Under concurrent list, center has no right to make rules for food grain marketing. Center govt is forcing these new rules made for food stuff trading over APMC Mandis. Not acceptable!

2) These new bills, if interoduced will destroy APMC Mandi system in max. 4-5 years and MSP will be gone in the absence of APMC. Then private mandis & its middleman with unlimited storage capacity, introduced under these new laws will exploit farmers in the absence of APMC Mandis.

3) Under contracting law, everything from seeds, fertilizers to machinery etc. will be provided by company and there no surety that company will buy all produce! If there is extra production and low demand, company can reject the produce under quality clause and loss will be incurred by farmer. If there is high demand for that product, extra profit will go company, not farmer. So if there is a loss, it will be farmers and if there is an extra profit, it will be companies.

3) So, in short period of time farming will be made so expensive that farmers will be forced to either sell their lands and give those lands to companies on long term leases and farmers will work over their own lands as labor. Not acceptable at all!

These are some major reasons of agitation by farmers!

You are just ignorant of the private sector. Whatever you said won't happen simply because that's not how the private sector works.

Whatever you said only works if the company has absolute monopoly. But if they don't control the product itself, how will they get a monopoly? Also India laws prevent monopolies anyway.

The main reason for farmers' agigation is they have been misled by opposition parties and anti-India forces. Read post 242.

 

[jetray]

The opposition has no interest in this. They are scuttling anything good as a matter of policy.

when you go to the hustings again you need to prove that. How are you going to do that without giving them a chance? There is nothing which could have prevented the govt from not passing legislation. Govt is giving plain excuses to avoid discussion. When you have the majority in the parliament why in the world did you pass the legislation in such a hurried manner. why ?????

The main reason for farmers' agigation is they have been misled by opposition parties and anti-India forces. Read post 242.

In democracy you dont insult the other parties intelligence, do you think they will take it lying down.

 

[randomradio]

when you go to the hustings again you need to prove that. How are you going to do that without giving them a chance? There is nothing which could have prevented the govt from not passing legislation. Govt is giving plain excuses to avoid discussion. When you have the majority in the parliament why in the world did you pass the legislation in such a hurried manner. why ?????

The opposition has been given plenty of chances. They don't want change since they know it's their end. Why will a cornered rat not try to bite?

In democracy you dont insult the other parties intelligence, do you think they will take it lying down.

Read post 242, tell me what's wrong with the points raised in the attachments. Since you want a debate, let's see what sort of counterpoints you can make about those.

Have you ever considered the fact that the govt reforms are good enough that the opposition has nothing they can debate about?

 

[jetray]

The opposition has been given plenty of chances. They don't want change since they know it's their end. Why will a cornered rat not try to bite?

were they given a chance in parliament to debate about it? yes or no?

Read post 242, tell me what's wrong with the points raised in the attachments. Since you want a debate, let's see what sort of counterpoints you can make about those.

Have you ever considered the fact that the govt reforms are good enough that the opposition has nothing they can debate about?

I have clearly said reforms are good but the way govt pushed it without following due process is not correct.

 

[Maler]

You are just ignorant of the private sector. Whatever you said won't happen simply because that's not how the private sector works.

Whatever you said only works if the company has absolute monopoly. But if they don't control the product itself, how will they get a monopoly? Also India laws prevent monopolies anyway.

The main reason for farmers' agigation is they have been misled by opposition parties and anti-India forces. Read post 242.

So all farmers illiterate, no common sense, know nothing about farming which they are doing from generations, they don't know how mandis work, they have large no highly educated siblings working in private and some running their own companies but hey they still don't know how private sector works, they may have a large nos of agriculture experts, agri economic experts, agri academicians supporting farmer demands but hey they know nothing, there are examples of failure of same agriculture system even of developed countries, but thats not true and spreading lies and misled by opposition parties! Farmers are dying on roads, because they know nothing and misled by opposition!

I agree, you have a logical point!!!!

Bravoyou won!!!

Anything you want to teach me please!!!

 

[Cole_phelps]

oh yeah you end up arbitrarily deciding that without giving the other side a chance and now they are the doing same to the govt as well. Opposition says the same thing about govt that they have no valid points to argue with. At this rate we will end up becoming like bangladesh of 1990's where opposition will be rioting in the street and govt will be licking their wounds in the parliament.


SC panel has no locus standi on these issues they only interpret laws they dont create laws. Its only the elected members in parliament can decide on what laws should be.

WHAT?

Let's buy your version for a second. Don't you think it would have benefited your/ farmers cause after getting booted from Indian HC & SC before going global into proving how fascist GoI is?

I also understand your compulsions in going Global without dead bodies of Jalianwala bagh part 2.

 

[randomradio]

were they given a chance in parliament to debate about it? yes or no?

Yes, they were. They didn't deliver. So there's no more need for it.

I have clearly said reforms are good but the way govt pushed it without following due process is not correct.

They are following due process.

So all farmers illiterate, no common sense, know nothing about farming which they are doing from generations, they don't know how mandis work, they have large no highly educated siblings working in private and some running their own companies but hey they still don't know how private sector works, they may have a large nos of agriculture experts, agri economic experts, agri academicians supporting farmer demands but hey they know nothing, there are examples of failure of same agriculture system even of developed countries, but thats not true and spreading lies and misled by opposition parties! Farmers are dying on roads, because they know nothing and misled by opposition!

I agree, you have a logical point!!!!

Bravoyou won!!!

Har Har Modi, Ghar Ghar Modi!!!

Anything you want to teach me please!!!

Funny how only two states are complaining, although nothing changes for them. The rest of India is happy with the farm laws.

You do realise we have 700 million farmers right? So why are there no protests elsewhere?

 

[Tatvamasi]

1) We market our food grains in mandi not food stuff and food grains are state subject not come under central govt. Under concurrent list, center has no right to make rules for food grain marketing. Center govt is forcing these new rules made for food stuff trading over APMC Mandis. Not acceptable!

Which has to be decided by the court, not by protest. Protesters are asking to revert bills all over Indian, not in just Punjab and haryana. Which is simply impossible.

2) These new bills, if interoduced will destroy APMC Mandi system in max. 4-5 years and MSP will be gone in the absence of APMC. Then private mandis & its middleman with unlimited storage capacity, introduced under these new laws will exploit farmers in the absence of APMC Mandis.

But, Even after this bill farmers can still go to these Mandi's and do everything old school way. If the majority of farmers still depended on those how can government abolish it? Logic don't make sense. If your claims are correct then why would farmers leave these "agents"?

By simple definition state service tax and 'commission agents' are exploiting farmers of their produce. So if farmer thinks private mandis will be less exploitive then who are you to stop them.

State's job in a free market is to give multiple options thus freedom, not to interfere in business. Which is exactly what this bill is doing.

3) Under contracting law, everything from seeds, fertilizers to machinery etc. will be provided by company and there no surety that company will buy all produce! If there is extra production and low demand, company can reject the produce under quality clause and loss will be incurred by farmer. If there is high demand for that product, extra profit will go company, not farmer. So if there is a loss, it will be farmers and if there is an extra profit, it will be companies.

The entire paragraph is misinformation. Its hilarious that you believe this. Show me in the bill where it says so. There are no such restrictions.

The only thing true here is market price. Risk-taker will benefit when the price goes up and suffer when it goes down. No one can predict the prices when making the contract. Thus the company is giving an estimate which the farmer can reject and go for a better offer. On the downside, the price crashes company suffers.

Even in this scenario, government mandis still exists!.

3) So, in short period of time farming will be made so expensive that farmers will be forced to either sell their lands and give those lands to companies on long term leases and farmers will work over their own lands as labor. Not acceptable at all!

Again, random claims not worth commenting on.

Contract farming exists in multiple states and working very well. Its up to the farmer to choose it or not. You are no one to dictate that. The current situation is what ludicrous in a country like India. Ensuring farming to be least productive and inefficient so that we can cry over poor farmers forever.

Let me ask this again:

How is skipping the middleman and giving the money directly to the farmer a bad thing?

But again, I agree with your overall point. APMC/state-regulated structure will be destroyed over time. That fear is true.

Which is a good thing for farmers, the environment, industry, and the overall economy. There is simply no other way to reform this sector.

Honestly, these two states should be allowed to continue their anarchic system. Amend the bill by excluding these two states. Let the other BIMARU states take this opportunity to its fullest. Decades down the line the poor economic performance and ecological destruction will make them reform themselves.